[quote]mazilla wrote:
crap, i have a better one. i should have said…
see you there, i’ll be the guy curling in the squat rack.[/quote]
You SHOULD go to hell for that! LOL 
anyway should it not be NON-beleivers instead of UN-beleivers?
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
MattFarlick wrote:
YOU’RE ALL GOING TO HELL!!!
Ye well who the fuck wants to go to heaven? I hear its full of Christians
[/quote]
As self-righteous as some are now, can you just imagine how unbearable they’d be if it turned out they were right after all? I’d just as soon not be around them.
(Edit to add: Best TSB ever, ee)
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
…
No Buddhists are going to hell because they believe in self-control and self-discipline but follow a leader who was so damn fat that I’m sure he was a diabetic and had heart disease. What kind of model of self-disciple is that? That’s like holding up Madonna as an advocate for sexual abstinence!
Her namesake was a virgin.[/quote]
Buddha had a large belly because of the swelling of his gastrointestinal tract from near starvation, similarly to impoverished ethiopian children.
In buddhist belief he was a prince that gave himself to the people and lived as a peasant.
BTW
I"m sorry if you were being sarcastic
to the OP:
you gave an example of someone losing their memory and being unaware of thier debt.
How do you know you didn’t delude yourself into thinking you or others had debt?
Maybe you were lied to?
There are far more people in this world who are unbelievers (as you defined it)than believers.
How do you know you haven’t forgotten your debt to Allah through Muhammed, or your promise to live peacefully and worship through Buddha?
For every word in your Bible their are ten thousand in the Quraan and Buddhist and Sikh and Hinduist oand countless other texts.
Maybe you’re the one with forgotten debts?
Until death there is no real way to justify anything.
[quote]Goal=Colossus wrote:
to the OP:
you gave an example of someone losing their memory and being unaware of thier debt.
How do you know you didn’t delude yourself into thinking you or others had debt?
Maybe you were lied to?
There are far more people in this world who are unbelievers (as you defined it)than believers.
How do you know you haven’t forgotten your debt to Allah through Muhammed, or your promise to live peacefully and worship through Buddha?
For every word in your Bible their are ten thousand in the Quraan and Buddhist and Sikh and Hinduist oand countless other texts.
Maybe you’re the one with forgotten debts?
Until death there is no real way to justify anything.
[/quote]
Wow. after reading this reply I had to gather myself and just sit in awe for a few moments. Very deep thoughts, very moving statements, very novel ideas.
[quote]Goal=Colossus wrote:
to the OP:
you gave an example of someone losing their memory and being unaware of thier debt.
How do you know you didn’t delude yourself into thinking you or others had debt?
Maybe you were lied to?
There are far more people in this world who are unbelievers (as you defined it)than believers.
How do you know you haven’t forgotten your debt to Allah through Muhammed, or your promise to live peacefully and worship through Buddha?
For every word in your Bible their are ten thousand in the Quraan and Buddhist and Sikh and Hinduist oand countless other texts.
Maybe you’re the one with forgotten debts?
Until death there is no real way to justify anything.
[/quote]
The positive change in someone’s life when they become a Christian is the justification. None of those other religions seem to be able to make the same kind of POSITIVE impact as Christianity. And don’t confuse what the Romans did using the Catholic Church as a front as a negative, as that was political power mongering, not following Christ.
Anyone who truly follows Christ in their heart is changed for the better.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
…and for your information, I have read it many many times over and still read it every single day.
[/quote]
Well, shut the fuck up and read silently already… halfwit.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Goal=Colossus wrote:
to the OP:
you gave an example of someone losing their memory and being unaware of thier debt.
How do you know you didn’t delude yourself into thinking you or others had debt?
Maybe you were lied to?
There are far more people in this world who are unbelievers (as you defined it)than believers.
How do you know you haven’t forgotten your debt to Allah through Muhammed, or your promise to live peacefully and worship through Buddha?
For every word in your Bible their are ten thousand in the Quraan and Buddhist and Sikh and Hinduist oand countless other texts.
Maybe you’re the one with forgotten debts?
Until death there is no real way to justify anything.
The positive change in someone’s life when they become a Christian is the justification. None of those other religions seem to be able to make the same kind of POSITIVE impact as Christianity. And don’t confuse what the Romans did using the Catholic Church as a front as a negative, as that was political power mongering, not following Christ.
Anyone who truly follows Christ in their heart is changed for the better.
[/quote]
You’re right, Christianity has made a huge positive impact on many, many people.
You can justify it for yourself that what you’re contributing to is positive or good, but the reality is that there are as many definitions of right or good or positive as there are people on this planet.
Everyone makes there choices and hopes for the best.
[quote]Goal=Colossus wrote:
to the OP:
you gave an example of someone losing their memory and being unaware of thier debt.
How do you know you didn’t delude yourself into thinking you or others had debt?
Maybe you were lied to?
[/quote]
Dude! Someone gave you a gift you never asked for because you offended them by being imperfect, which is how you were created.
There are consequences to not accepting this free gift that you didn’t ask for!
You can’t just say… uh, no thanks. I’m just gonna go to the mall with my friends.
Instead, if you do not accept this free gift that you never asked for (for the “debt” you had no choice but to incur), then you will be tortured forever by this other guy … just because!
That’s how a loving God rolls.
What’s so hard to understand?
You’ve never seen or communicated with God, Jesus Christ, or any of the other figures you worship.
Your entire faith – each and every single thing you know about religion – is derived from HUMAN sources. Think long and hard about the significance of this. YOU, as an individual, have absolutely no way of physically verifying what supposedly happened in the past, nevermind thousands of years ago.
Consider the fact that every prayer you’ve ever uttered, every religious thought, has stemmed from entirely HUMAN knowledge, with all of its biases and imperfections.
Your God is a complete enigma. You have been TOLD of him, but you cannot know him.
If we are to accept the legitimacy of the written and spoken tradition of religion (in other words, if you believe that everything you know about religion has been relayed faithfully from generation-to-generation, spanning back to Jesus’ time) then this does not circumvent the empirical dilemna, it merely creates a new one. And what is the new dilemna created by this situation? Simple. It merely shifts the burden of empirical proof from you onto the initial human generation in the chain (the “first message relayers”, so to speak).
Obviously, the original prophets aren’t around to give accounts of their divine experiences. But here’s the point – THEY didn’t require “faith” to find God, THEY [supposedly] were given direct, EMPIRICAL proof in the physical form of Jesus Christ on earth. So why the hell should WE settle for anything less? I’ll believe in Jesus Christ the day I see him with my own eyes, and not a second sooner. Realize that the ONLY other option you have is to entrust your entire religious faith to sources of human origin. The first time the message was relayed from generation-to-generation, it immediately ceased to be divine in origin, and became a part of the human sphere. And your religion, with all it’s babbling about the seperation between the human and divine realms, and the importance of the latter, CAN’T – for it’s LIFE – find a way of circumventing this most simple of philosophical quandaries.
As you can plainly see (and will fervently deny, with all your pious might) empiricism kicks your shitty religion – and all faith, for that matter – to the curb.
The empirical method is the basis for all human achievement. Without it, you wouldn’t have a bible to thump, scriptures to cite. Remember: The scribes who penned the bible and other works weren’t relying on faith for their information. Answer this: WHY SHOULD YOU?
To answer your question, I’m not going to do anything about “my sin”, since there’s no possible authority outside of my person who can dictate to me what is sinful and what isn’t. The very word is meaningless to me, as are all moral terms. That’s because morality is 100% subjective.
Try as you might, you CAN’T DELEGATE AUTHORITY TO AN EXTERNAL SOURCE. Why? Because, in the final analysis, NOBODY else bears responsibility for YOUR actions. There is absolutely no way of escaping individual responsibility. Even if you choose to “follow God’s path”, YOU are making that decision for YOURSELF as an INDIVIDUAL, and YOU will reap the consequences of that, whatever they may be.
Putting aside the philosophy, the #1 reason people require religion is fear. I’m not a fearful person. I’m not afraid of living in the world and reaping the consequences. Therefore, I have no use for religion. And why the hell would I believe in something that I’ve never seen, nobody alive ever has or ever will see, and serves no purpose besides assuaging the fears of weak souls and fostering most of the large-scale conflict on the planet?
Are adults supposed to have imaginary friends? I don’t think so, so tell me why do so many people have the same imaginary friend? Are we not taught to be individuals and have self expression. Believe in yourself and the world will be a better place.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
You’ve never seen or communicated with God, Jesus Christ, or any of the other figures you worship.
Your entire faith – each and every single thing you know about religion – is derived from HUMAN sources. Think long and hard about the significance of this. YOU, as an individual, have absolutely no way of physically verifying what supposedly happened in the past, nevermind thousands of years ago.
Consider the fact that every prayer you’ve ever uttered, every religious thought, has stemmed from entirely HUMAN knowledge, with all of its biases and imperfections.
Your God is a complete enigma. You have been TOLD of him, but you cannot know him.
If we are to accept the legitimacy of the written and spoken tradition of religion (in other words, if you believe that everything you know about religion has been relayed faithfully from generation-to-generation, spanning back to Jesus’ time) then this does not circumvent the empirical dilemna, it merely creates a new one. And what is the new dilemna created by this situation? Simple. It merely shifts the burden of empirical proof from you onto the initial human generation in the chain (the “first message relayers”, so to speak).
Obviously, the original prophets aren’t around to give accounts of their divine experiences. But here’s the point – THEY didn’t require “faith” to find God, THEY [supposedly] were given direct, EMPIRICAL proof in the physical form of Jesus Christ on earth. So why the hell should WE settle for anything less? I’ll believe in Jesus Christ the day I see him with my own eyes, and not a second sooner. Realize that the ONLY other option you have is to entrust your entire religious faith to sources of human origin. The first time the message was relayed from generation-to-generation, it immediately ceased to be divine in origin, and became a part of the human sphere. And your religion, with all it’s babbling about the seperation between the human and divine realms, and the importance of the latter, CAN’T – for it’s LIFE – find a way of circumventing this most simple of philosophical quandaries.
As you can plainly see (and will fervently deny, with all your pious might) empiricism kicks your shitty religion – and all faith, for that matter – to the curb.
The empirical method is the basis for all human achievement. Without it, you wouldn’t have a bible to thump, scriptures to cite. Remember: The scribes who penned the bible and other works weren’t relying on faith for their information. Answer this: WHY SHOULD YOU?
To answer your question, I’m not going to do anything about “my sin”, since there’s no possible authority outside of my person who can dictate to me what is sinful and what isn’t. The very word is meaningless to me, as are all moral terms. That’s because morality is 100% subjective.
Try as you might, you CAN’T DELEGATE AUTHORITY TO AN EXTERNAL SOURCE. Why? Because, in the final analysis, NOBODY else bears responsibility for YOUR actions. There is absolutely no way of escaping individual responsibility. Even if you choose to “follow God’s path”, YOU are making that decision for YOURSELF as an INDIVIDUAL, and YOU will reap the consequences of that, whatever they may be.
Putting aside the philosophy, the #1 reason people require religion is fear. I’m not a fearful person. I’m not afraid of living in the world and reaping the consequences. Therefore, I have no use for religion. And why the hell would I believe in something that I’ve never seen, nobody alive ever has or ever will see, and serves no purpose besides assuaging the fears of weak souls and fostering most of the large-scale conflict on the planet?[/quote]
Well said indeed that man
One thing I really do not understand is how it is said that Jesus died for our sins blah blah blah.
If there was a man called Jesus who was crucified and did die on the cross, he did not do it for our sins, he died up there because a shit load of rock hard, nasty, armed roman soldiers nailed him to the fucking thing.
I do not think he had much choice to be fair.
I do truely beleive that there was once a man called jesus that lived around 2000 years ago, I also believe that he was a very special person very talented, in a kind of David Blaine and John Lennon kind of way.
I beleive he had many followers that beleived his every word, and worshipped his every move, if they TV back then maybe these people would have had something better to do.
But anyway back to my point if it was written that Jesus nailed himself to a cross and crucified himself for our sins then I would be impressed, but the bloke pissed of the romans and they did him in, please do not try and use that as an excuse to say ‘he died for our sins’
Thats BS! He died cos he got OWNED by the Romans
I need to get out more, seriously im off to the gym bye…
[quote]PhunkNU wrote:
Are adults supposed to have imaginary friends? I don’t think so, so tell me why do so many people have the same imaginary friend? Are we not taught to be individuals and have self expression. Believe in yourself and the world will be a better place.[/quote]
Funny how millions of people since the beginning of recorded history have the same imaginary friend! Not only that, but this “friend” has given them all similar information at different times. People who had no connection to one another just happened to “imagine” the same information!
Wow! There has got to be some astronomical odds on that happening!
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
PhunkNU wrote:
Are adults supposed to have imaginary friends? I don’t think so, so tell me why do so many people have the same imaginary friend? Are we not taught to be individuals and have self expression. Believe in yourself and the world will be a better place.
Funny how millions of people since the beginning of recorded history have the same imaginary friend! Not only that, but this “friend” has given them all similar information at different times. People who had no connection to one another just happened to “imagine” the same information!
Wow! There has got to be some astronomical odds on that happening!
[/quote]
Recorded history started way before Jesus.
Nobody just felt the presence of Jesus randomly and realized it was Jesus.
His first followers saw him in person.
Every body from then on was told or read about him.
After that every emotional burst or sudden epiphany was attributed to the the imagination of the power of Jesus.
This of course, is just an example of how the mind can create abstract allusions in order to proliferate some meaning or purpose in life and keep sane.
It always makes me laugh when Christians say they’ve been “born again.” Why should I be born again?..I got it right the first time damnit!
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
NealRaymond2 wrote:
On the surface the question is illogical, but there is an underlying or implicit logic to posing the question to scoffers. Something along the lines of inciting doubt in at least one scoffer that perhaps there is a debt to be paid that is not being effectively addressed, despite his current beliefs, which would then eventually lead him to reconsider his current beliefs.
Good luck with that. This thread is dumb and so is anyone who thinks they will hammer religion into someone else who states they are a “non-believer”. To someone who doesn’t believe in God, there would be no “debt” because they consider themselves their own “god”. There is a huge difference between an agnostic and an atheist.
I see your point Professor, but if you owed money to someone – lots of money, let’s say. Now, lets say that you had some sort of memory problem, and therefore you really believed that you simply didn’t owe anything to this person. Does the fact that you believe tht you don’t owe the debt mean that you REALLY don’t owe the debt? Of course not!
Same thing here! If God says that the “wages [payment due for] of sin is death,” meaning both physical death and spiritual death – then I ask once again.
What are YOU [everyone that is a scoffer and unbeliever] going to do about YOUR sin?
If you are rejecting Christ, who claims to be the ONLY WAY to salvation – how are you going to pay? [/quote]
What are YOU [everyone that is a scoffer and unbeliever] going to do about YOUR sin against Mohammed?
If you are rejecting Mohammed, who claims to be the ONLY WAY to salvation – how are you going to pay?
Also, how are YOU going to pay Zoroaster, who claims to be the ONLY WAY to salvation --how are you going to pay?
What if the Bible isnt correct? What if the jews, muslims, or budhists have it right? Then what will so called believers do about their “debt of sin”?