To All The Unbelievers

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
301

SteveO… I know someone asked earlier, but you must have missed it since you didn’t answer.

Please tell us what the age of the earth is!

Also, how did Noah keep the hundreds of species of dinosaurs from eating his sons and the other animals? Were they in giant cages?

Wait, they didn’t need giant cages. Baby dinos might have slept through the trip, sez Christiananswers.net.

Just as well since they got off the boat and promptly went extinct, right?

Oh, they didn’t? Because Job saw a “behemoth” after the Flood. So, they went extint after the flood, right? Like before the virgin birth of the god/man, who’s totally different from the god/men that populated greek and roman myths, right?

And this human sacrifice, it was totally different from the human sacrifices other cultures all around the world made, right? Right, I’m sure it is.

Just please, refresh for me how old the earth is. Because the Devil, I mean, science, has me all confuzled. And it just warms my heart to hear you say it.

302

[quote]futuredave wrote:
SteveO… I know someone asked earlier, but you must have missed it since you didn’t answer.

Please tell us what the age of the earth is!

Also, how did Noah keep the hundreds of species of dinosaurs from eating his sons and the other animals? Were they in giant cages?

Wait, they didn’t need giant cages. Baby dinos might have slept through the trip, sez Christiananswers.net.

Just as well since they got off the boat and promptly went extinct, right?

Oh, they didn’t? Because Job saw a “behemoth” after the Flood. So, they went extint after the flood, right? Like before the virgin birth of the god/man, who’s totally different from the god/men that populated greek and roman myths, right?

And this human sacrifice, it was totally different from the human sacrifices other cultures all around the world made, right? Right, I’m sure it is.

Just please, refresh for me how old the earth is. Because the Devil, I mean, science, has me all confuzled. And it just warms my heart to hear you say it.
[/quote]

Having these questions answered for you is not your major issue. Your major issue, my friend, is unbeleif and therefore, what are you going to do about your sin? Since you obviously reject God and His plan of salvation, what exactly is your “Plan B” when you face Him on judgement day.

God will not be mocked!

303

Then please allow me, one who has answered your question truthfully.

What is the age of the earth?

304

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
what are you going to do about your sin?

[/quote]

Honestly, do you plan to keep asking this question forever?

Do you think everyone, even those who believe in God, who has told you your approach is ridiculous are just unable to comprehend things the way you can?

I am in awe that you think this way.

305

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Having these questions answered for you is not your major issue. Your major issue, my friend, is unbeleif …[/quote]

Unbelief in what? I’m asking you a question about what you believe I should believe.

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.”

It’s Genesis 1:1.

Let’s start with the first sentence of your book and see if it makes any sense and then we can go from there.

How old is the earth?

I’ll give you a hint. We’re looking for a number here. Not some gasbag response about hell.

Just give us a number.

306

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:

Long long time ago, far far away, it rained on the rocks, and the soup filled the oceans, and clumps of stuff formed cells and they came alive and then millions and millions of years later they grew feet and walked out of the water and millions and millions of years later they became my ‘grandpappy.’

Whose laughing now… [/quote]

You know I rarely debate “evolution vs creation.” But when you put it like that…it does seem rather far fetched.

Nice job Steve.

307

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
"In the beginning – “bang!” Then it rained on the rocks, the soup became thick, the clumps came together and somehow came alive, they grew legs, walked out of the water, became animals, became monkeys, and the presto “It’s Pookie!”

What were you saying about brain functions?
[/quote]

One difference is that science doesn’t claim any of that to be the Truth with a capital T. There’s a lot of “we don’t know exactly; it might be this like this…” and when new facts come to light, we’ll adjust the theories. The important fact is that science proposes theories that best fit available facts; and is readily able to change if a better theory gets formulated or new facts are established.

Basically, the concern is with trying to understand the real, objective “Truth” of our universe; not try to force fit some old book written by primitives to what we now know; while denying the theories that are too difficult to fit.

The fun part is that science’s theories have practical applications and have permitted a whole bunch of technological and medical breakthroughs.

The Bible, on the other hand, talks about boats so large, that they can’t actually be built out of wood, unless you’ve got that magical gopher wood that’s immune to gravity and creates extra space and free food inside whatever you build with it.

I guess you pick whichever one your brain is able to deal with…

308

[quote]Kiwigeezer wrote:
Then please allow me, one who has answered your question truthfully.

What is the age of the earth?[/quote]

Not sure. I wasn’t there when God created it.

Were you there?

309

[quote]Professor X wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
what are you going to do about your sin?

Honestly, do you plan to keep asking this question forever? [/quote]

Yes – especially when nobody is answering them.[quote]

Do you think everyone, even those who believe in God, who has told you your approach is ridiculous are just unable to comprehend things the way you can?[/quote]

I would suggest (especially since you are a “Professor”) to look into the N.T. and read it carefully and see the examples of those who were committed Christians shared their faith. Note that tremendous oppostion, hatred, and even physical violence – not to mention the fact that there were people very distressed, disturbed and downright PO’d at them for doing it.

Did they stop? No! Now are you saying the Apostles, Paul, Peter, John, the Deacons Phillip and Stephen were “ridiculous” in their methods? Is the Bible then wrong? Again, I am puzzled at your responses. You claim to be “Christian,” yet you oppose those who would follow the example of Christ, and the example He left for us in His Word.

Are you a “christian” with a “little c?” Are you just claiming to be Christian? When, exactly, Prof, were you born-again? I ask this because the Bible is very clear that “ye must be born again in order to see the Kingdom of God.” These are Christ’s words, not mine. So when, exactly, did this happen for you, Prof?[quote]

I am in awe that you think this way. [/quote]

I am not sure why, given the New Testament is replete with clear examples of Christians sharing their faith and preaching Christ in the face of ugly oppostion.

310

[quote]futuredave wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Having these questions answered for you is not your major issue. Your major issue, my friend, is unbeleif …

Unbelief in what? I’m asking you a question about what you believe I should believe.

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.”

It’s Genesis 1:1.

Let’s start with the first sentence of your book and see if it makes any sense and then we can go from there.

How old is the earth?

I’ll give you a hint. We’re looking for a number here. Not some gasbag response about hell.

Just give us a number.
[/quote]

If you haven’t noticed, I started this thread for a purpose. Your question is not one of the purposes. Read my first post when I began the thread, answer it fully, and perhaps I will discuss this with you at a later date.

311

[quote]ZEB wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

Long long time ago, far far away, it rained on the rocks, and the soup filled the oceans, and clumps of stuff formed cells and they came alive and then millions and millions of years later they grew feet and walked out of the water and millions and millions of years later they became my ‘grandpappy.’

Whose laughing now…

You know I rarely debate “evolution vs creation.” But when you put it like that…it does seem rather far fetched.

Nice job Steve.

[/quote]

Hey Zeb – it really is exactly what they believe! In fact, one of Pookie’s favorite books “The Blind Watchmaker” begins with this sentence:

“We animals…”

Talking about humans – made in God’s image this way. Animals!

I mean when you really look into their fantasies, one must realize that it takes a whole lot more ‘faith’ and imagination to believe in evolution.

Anyway, I don’t wish to digress down this tired road…

312

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
I would suggest (especially since you are a “Professor”) to look into the N.T. and read it carefully and see the examples of those who were committed Christians shared their faith. Note that tremendous oppostion, hatred, and even physical violence – not to mention the fact that there were people very distressed, disturbed and downright PO’d at them for doing it.
[/quote]

Dude, no one is upset at you for simply talking about God or even trying to witness to others. I know it makes you feel better to feel as if you are being persecuted. That is the only reason you keep bringng this up everytime someone says exactly what I am. SEVERAL people now who have also stated they believe in God have told you your approach is making no sense. You aren’t even providing a logical argument. You keep asking questions as if you can’t comprehend that someone who doesn’t believe in God feels that there is nothing they need to do for their “sin” other than avoid getting caught while “sinning”. In other words, you are not helping. You aren’t converting anyone and, frankly, if I had been introduced to my religion by someone who acts like you are, I would think something was very wrong.

Again, this is not written as “persecution”. It is written because you aren’t making sense or even providing a decent debate or argument. You are simply making yourself an easy target. If you take this as anything other than that, then something is very wrong.

However, since I know you won’t listen because you somehow feel like a martyr, I suppose this is just a waste of time. I simply wanted to stress again what DPH and many others have written to you that you completely ignore.

313

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Kainjer wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Kainjer wrote:
Kainjer wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

No one is saying that the behaviors you describe as “sins” are admirable or beneficial, these behaviors are reprehensible. They are simply saying that outside of the context in which you have defined the term, it does not have the same significance.

I think you miss my point. I do address this to unbelievers of every kind. Those who don’t believe in God or Jesus, or those who believe that there is a God, but reject God’s plan of salvation.

People who don’t believe still sin.

What I am asking is that since we all sin, and there will be eternal consequences for that sin when we face the Ultimate Judge of the Universe, what is YOUR plan to escape punishment if it is not God’s plan?

And you are missing my point. The question you are ultimately proposing still defines “sin” as a christian principle.

OK – do you think that lying, stealing, having sex with another man’s wife, are good things? What do you call these things then?
[/quote]

Certainly not. That has been addressed in my original post (see above), as well as in a follow-up post (see below). Non-believers aren’t saying that these behaviors are good, they just don’t attach any theological qualifiers to them. If “sin” is a crime against God, and one does not believe in God, it is not a “sin”. It is still a bad behavior, and is still not beneficial to society, but there are no eternal consequences attached.

I have worked in the court system for almost 10 years, first in corrections, and currently in probation. One thing I can say is that career criminals DO expect to get caught. They see it as a job hazard. They just don’t expect to get caught every time. Most tell me that they are getting away with about 20-30 crimes for every one that they get caught for, which they consider to be an acceptable risk.

When I was a kid, my father would tell me that “because” is not an answer. Now I understand why he would never let me get away with trying to use it as one.

and you do the same

314

For the record, what is this unbelief people speak of?

Is it like a slightly less literate version of disbelief, which is AN ACTUAL WORD?

Just wondered…

315

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
How old is the earth?

I’ll give you a hint. We’re looking for a number here. Not some gasbag response about hell.

Just give us a number.

If you haven’t noticed, I started this thread for a purpose. Your question is not one of the purposes. Read my first post when I began the thread, answer it fully, and perhaps I will discuss this with you at a later date.
[/quote]

Your original post: The Bible says that “…the wages [just payment] for sin is death” – physical death as well as spiritual death.

That comes very late in your book. Personally, I don’t think it’s true.

But maybe I’m wrong.

So, let’s start at the beginning of your book and see how sound the reasoning is that leads up to this whole “wages of sin” thing.

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth.”

How long ago was that, SteveO? Answer this question and we’ll go from there.

Or are you ashamed of the answer because you know how stoopid it sounds?

316

[quote]Professor X wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
I would suggest (especially since you are a “Professor”) to look into the N.T. and read it carefully and see the examples of those who were committed Christians shared their faith. Note that tremendous oppostion, hatred, and even physical violence – not to mention the fact that there were people very distressed, disturbed and downright PO’d at them for doing it.

Dude, no one is upset at you for simply talking about God or even trying to witness to others. I know it makes you feel better to feel as if you are being persecuted. That is the only reason you keep bringng this up everytime someone says exactly what I am. SEVERAL people now who have also stated they believe in God have told you your approach is making no sense. You aren’t even providing a logical argument. You keep asking questions as if you can’t comprehend that someone who doesn’t believe in God feels that there is nothing they need to do for their “sin” other than avoid getting caught while “sinning”. In other words, you are not helping. You aren’t converting anyone and, frankly, if I had been introduced to my religion by someone who acts like you are, I would think something was very wrong.

Again, this is not written as “persecution”. It is written because you aren’t making sense or even providing a decent debate or argument. You are simply making yourself an easy target. If you take this as anything other than that, then something is very wrong.

However, since I know you won’t listen because you somehow feel like a martyr, I suppose this is just a waste of time. I simply wanted to stress again what DPH and many others have written to you that you completely ignore.[/quote]

I’d have to say that Steve has taken more abuse on this forum than most others. And if you look at his posts they are not the least bit offensive.

I don’t know if he said he was being persecuted or that’s something that you simply attributed to him, but he takes a lot of bull from people. Honestly, some very hateful stuff is written against him on a consistent basis.

Perhaps some might say that he brings this on himself. But, I’d have to disagree. There are many, many topics covered on this forum and none of them brings about the rage that this particular topic seems to muster. That alone should give pause for thought.

And I have to disagree with you relative to the issue of him “providing a decent debate.” When he brings up spiritual matters he is always ready with Biblical quotes and defends his points quite well. That he is outspoken about the topic of Christianity is a given.

It seems to me that your problem with him is more a matter of style than substance. And…that’s certainly your right, and I don’t question it. But while his style may not meet with your particular approval it is not an uncommon approach and has indeed won over many people to Christ by others. And there are many people both in Biblical literature, through the ages and even more recently who have a similar style when witnessing to others.

I understand why the atheists hate Steve. And they display that hate on a regular basis. But I would think that if Christians were going to complain on this site it would be more about something like the… “Ass Worship thread” for example, rather than Steve talking about Jesus Christ.

317

Is this a thread I should stay out of?

318

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Perhaps some might say that he brings this on himself. [/quote]

Yes, some, or all, or everyone but you would say that.

Actually, religion has been discussed on this forum SEVERAL times since I have been here and never has it fallen to this type of nonsense…UNTIL people like Steve approached it the way they are. Do you honestly think you and Steve are the only Christians on this site? Perhaps you think you are the only “true” Christians. Yes, you do bring this on yourself.

This is where you are completely off. What upsets people is that someone like Steve is attempting to speak for an entire belief. He is doing a poor job of it. I don’t support everyone who jumps up claiming to be speaking for God. That has historically had very negative consequences. The devil knows the Bible better than anyone and every man claiming to be “a man of God” isn’t to be trusted or carried on our shoulders, especially when the result is the chaos that has occured on this board in the past few weeks.

319

[quote]futuredave wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
How old is the earth?

I’ll give you a hint. We’re looking for a number here. Not some gasbag response about hell.

Just give us a number.

If you haven’t noticed, I started this thread for a purpose. Your question is not one of the purposes. Read my first post when I began the thread, answer it fully, and perhaps I will discuss this with you at a later date.

Your original post: The Bible says that “…the wages [just payment] for sin is death” – physical death as well as spiritual death.

That comes very late in your book. Personally, I don’t think it’s true.

But maybe I’m wrong.

So, let’s start at the beginning of your book and see how sound the reasoning is that leads up to this whole “wages of sin” thing.

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth.”

How long ago was that, SteveO? Answer this question and we’ll go from there.

Or are you ashamed of the answer because you know how stoopid it sounds?
[/quote]

I have already answered. I have no idea since I was not there.

320

[quote]Kainjer wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Kainjer wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Kainjer wrote:
Kainjer wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

No one is saying that the behaviors you describe as “sins” are admirable or beneficial, these behaviors are reprehensible. They are simply saying that outside of the context in which you have defined the term, it does not have the same significance.

I think you miss my point. I do address this to unbelievers of every kind. Those who don’t believe in God or Jesus, or those who believe that there is a God, but reject God’s plan of salvation.

People who don’t believe still sin.

What I am asking is that since we all sin, and there will be eternal consequences for that sin when we face the Ultimate Judge of the Universe, what is YOUR plan to escape punishment if it is not God’s plan?

And you are missing my point. The question you are ultimately proposing still defines “sin” as a christian principle.

OK – do you think that lying, stealing, having sex with another man’s wife, are good things? What do you call these things then?

Certainly not. That has been addressed in my original post (see above), as well as in a follow-up post (see below). Non-believers aren’t saying that these behaviors are good, they just don’t attach any theological qualifiers to them. If “sin” is a crime against God, and one does not believe in God, it is not a “sin”. It is still a bad behavior, and is still not beneficial to society, but there are no eternal consequences attached.[/quote]

OK – you want to call these types of behaviors “bad,” instead of sin – I have no problem with that. But let me ask you something on this point.

How do you know that lying, murder, stealing, having sex with someone’s wife, are bad behaviors? Where do you get that from? Isn’t true that we have a conscience [con = with; science = knowledge]? Our consciences tell us that these things are “bad.” Well where did the conscience come from? Who gave us this knowledge of good and evil? (Remember what Satan said to Adam and Eve in the garden that we would have the knowledge of good and evil?).

Again, my question is who gave us this ability to know right from wrong without ever being told? I am interested on your thoughts about this. [quote]

You are also including the christian idea of “eternal consequences” as reward/punishment for one’s actions in life. People who do not believe in God do not have anyone/thing to be “sinning” against, hence no “sin”. Bad deeds? Yes. Poor choices? Sure. “Sin”, as you define it? No. Nor do people who don’t believe in God worry about or even consider the possibilty of “eternal consequences”.[/quote]

I know. I used to be in that category as well. Kind of like a man on a fast moving boat down a long winding river. It is great fun and sport for much time, until it goes over the cliff that you were not aware nor didn’t believe was coming. That is unfortunate, but the cliff is closer than you think. [quote]

Well, I would say that few criminals ever expect to get caught, and certainly don’t think about the serious consequences for their crimes at the time they are commiting those crimes. This “non-belief” in the consequences still doesn’t make the reality of consequences go away.

Same in the eternal realm.

I have worked in the court system for almost 10 years, first in corrections, and currently in probation. One thing I can say is that career criminals DO expect to get caught. They see it as a job hazard. They just don’t expect to get caught every time. Most tell me that they are getting away with about 20-30 crimes for every one that they get caught for, which they consider to be an acceptable risk.

Why must everything have a purpose? Why is it a common trait of human nature to be unable to accept that we may simply just “be”, without ultimate cause, ultimate design or ultimate purpose? Do we as humans really need to feel that important, when “ultimately” we are not?

Because everything does have a purpose. That’s why. If the little things on Earth have a purpose, how much more the ultimate Creator of the Universe has a purpose?

When I was a kid, my father would tell me that “because” is not an answer. Now I understand why he would never let me get away with trying to use it as one.

Take care~

and you do the same[/quote]