To All The Unbelievers

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

[quote]ZEB wrote:
cram2012 wrote:

I’ll answer your questions:
have I read the Bible cover to cover? what do you think smart guy. I have no need to,

Thank you, that pretty much invalidates your opinion on the issue. I’ll try to refrain from critiquing a book that I DON’T read as well.

Why do I choose to chime in about people making assertions on the internet? same reason you do smart guy.

But probably half of my posts or more are on training.

any other stupid questions?..

Not right now, but If I have anything else to say to you I will summon you. Until then go back to being an Internet tough guy…We needed another Internet trash talker on this site, welcome aboard.

[/quote]
I guess what they say is true…ignorance is bliss.

so for the record I have to post comments about body building to be a body builder. I thought it involved more of reading the articles and then lifting…crazy me

182

[quote]ZEB wrote:
cram2012 wrote:

I’ll answer your questions:
have I read the Bible cover to cover? what do you think smart guy. I have no need to,

Thank you, that pretty much invalidates your opinion on the issue. I’ll try to refrain from critiquing a book that I DON’T read as well.

Why do I choose to chime in about people making assertions on the internet? same reason you do smart guy.

But probably half of my posts or more are on training.

any other stupid questions?..

Not right now, but If I have anything else to say to you I will summon you. Until then go back to being an Internet tough guy…We needed another Internet trash talker on this site, welcome aboard.

[/quote]

ohh I just caught the tough guy part. you are way tougher than me ZEB, hell I have never “Summonsed” anyone.

183

[quote]ZEB wrote:
When do you think it will begin?[/quote]

I have no idea. My best estimate gives me July 20th, 2057 at 19:02:37 GMT. Check back with me then, and I’ll let you know.

184

[quote]Professor X wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
You say you are a “good” person. Fair enough. Let us test this simply, as you say, with…and oh, by the way, it is not MY rule book, it is God’s rule book.

(1) Have you ever told a lie?

(2) Have you ever stolen something? (Doesn’t have to be big – could have been a cookie when you were 5 or a pen from work…etc)

(3) Have you ever looked upon a woman with lust? (oh, actually you sort of confessed to this already).

I await your response…

Good grief. What is going on inside your head? Anything at all? Why are you grilling anyone over this if they choose to not believe? Are you trying to force them to believe? Your approach is wrong and so is your basic consideration of the beliefs (or non-beliefs) of others. However, I know you won’t understand this. I suppose the purpose of even writing this is so that those reading it can understand that not all people who believe in God act or think like the guy who keeps this thread going.

Perhaps they should consider doing what I am doing. I, too, don’t expect that you will understand what I am about to say, but according to God’s Word, there is a judgement coming and that judgement will consign people who don’t believe to an eternal Hell (see Luke 16 for Jesus’ take on this).

What I am “doing” is not forcing anyone to believe – you know better than that! I am, however, prodding others to think about their eternal destiny and I am challenging statements such as “I am a good person,” “I’ll be OK,” etc.

I am doing NO MORE, Professor, then what YOU do in your posts about a wide variety of topics. The thing that you seem to find disturbing is that it is in the realm of Christianity and eternity. For some reason, while it is OK for you to challenge people in the things you post, it is not OK for me to do so in the things I post.

Sounds like a double standard to me and it is quite illogical for such as logical person as a “professor,” don’t ya think?

BTW – What are YOU going to do about YOUR sin?

Congrats. I now consider you insane. You were wavering on the edge of that distinction. This response has sent you over the edge.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT YOUR INSANITY!!???

You aren’t challenging anyone here. You aren’t provoking deeper thought. You are just pissing people off and closiong more minds than you could ever open. However, apparently you don’t see this.

Let me know when you convert someone. [/quote]

I don’t really care what you say, personally about me. Get it? It matters only what God’s opinion is. If you were a true Christian, you would respond in that way. You are revealing your heart and that it is not right with God.

You are a sinner, like anyone else, and you will either accept Jesus’ offer of salvation, or you will have to pay this for eternity yourself. That is not what I say, it is what the BIBLE SAYS!

Again, according to your illogic, I am insane for posting what the Bible says and expounding on it, while it is OK for you to post strong opinions (as if you are an expert on everything) in your posts. OK for you, not OK and insane for me?

See the contradcition? See the illogic?

Sorry, but I will continue to post and debate with anyone and everyone. I am sorry if I offend you, but I am doing what I believe God would have me to do.

Again, what are YOU going to do about YOUR SIN?

185

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
It is truly amazing that nobody can answer a few simple questions. Oh, you guys rant and rave, but to answer a few specific questions, nah!

The following was my original question for all of the scoffers out there:[b]

So, what are your plans for dealing with your sin, since you reject God’s plan.

Please do the following in your answer:

(1) Be very specific – tell us what, specifically, you can do about your own sin debt.

(2) Talk about only yourself and your beliefs here.

(3) If you don’t believe in the Bible, don’t use the Bible against itself. That is not logical. If you don’t believe in something, then don’t use that something in your answer.

(4)Tell the specific authority that you are using – i.e. cite the source of your beliefs. What are they based upon? [/b]

Will someone answer these questions? CAN you answer these important questions?

We will see…

Yawn…

SteveO what you are not grasping and what has ben metionedpreviously is that if you DO NOT beleive in god, then you do not believe in his rules and regulations and points system to enter a hevean that you do not beleive in.

Hence non believers do not sin and therefore do not have to do anything about those sins. You might beleive that they have too, but again what you seem to have difficulty grasping is thats your belief and your beliefs do not affect those who do not wish to participate.

So what you are saying is that YOU have never ever sinned in your lifetime? Am I understanding your position correctly?

Yes thast is correct Steve, I do not beleive in god therefore I do not beleive in any thing to do with Christianity include sins.

In your beleif system you will beleive I have sinned.

I am not a criminal, I am not anti social or violent and I am helpful to my fellow man, as far as i am concerned I am a good person and I need not concern myself with YOUR rule book chastising me for getting a woody over the ass worship thread.

You say you are a “good” person. Fair enough. Let us test this simply, as you say, with…and oh, by the way, it is not MY rule book, it is God’s rule book.

(1) Have you ever told a lie?

(2) Have you ever stolen something? (Doesn’t have to be big – could have been a cookie when you were 5 or a pen from work…etc)

(3) Have you ever looked upon a woman with lust? (oh, actually you sort of confessed to this already).

I await your response…

Yes SteveO I have told lies, I have stolen things, and I lust after women every single day, but I have no god to answer too, so I do not care that these acts would be considered sins by Christians.

I answer to nobody except myself, like I have stated before IF when I die I find out that I am wrong and that there really is a god, and I have a lifetime of unrepented sins behind me, all I will do is ask god for his Christian forgivness.

Actually I would probably tell him to fuck off, and tell him he is a sick and twisted arsehole for having the power to stop a world full of suffering and choosing not too, Heaven sounds like a real bore anyway.

I appreciate your honesty about your sin. Actually, it is God who calls such things sins and the fact that you have committed them means that you owe God a debt. How are you going to pay?

The thing of it is, is that God has already paid your fine for you. You only have to accept the gift that He has paid – Jesus Christ died to pay this debt. You accept His payment by accepting Him as Savior.

When you die – it will be too late for you to say anything to God. God is not mocked – He will simply point to His Word and even this discussion to show how you refused the payment when you had the chance. It is the same with a crimminal who refuses the plea bargain and then gets prison time.

Time is short…your move…

Let us get one thing straight right now, jesus did not die for anyones sins, Jesus died becuase a shit load of rock hard Roman soldiers armed with loads of weapons nailed his scrawny ass to a cross and left him there to die, thats why he died, no excuses, no further explations or conspiricy theories required.

Steve I have tried to be polite about it, but at the end of the day there is no god to answer to, so I do not care about sins and heaven, trust me if there was a god he would have took me out years ago, cos I have been mocking him big time for the past 15 years or so.[/quote]

That, my friend, only shows the GRACE of God. God is gracious that He allows us a chance to repent (change our mind about Him and about our sin) and come to Him.

He has given you xtra time to come. Jesus did die for YOU and He wants you to come to Him. He can and will save you, but you must come to Him on His terms.[quote]

These sins you speak of were created thousands of years ago to enforce law and order onto a relitavely simple society. You are allowing yourself and your life to be constrained by boogey man stories written in ancient times.

[/quote]

Sorry, but everyone knows that lying is a sin, cheating on your taxes is a sin, cheating on your wife is a sin, etc. Don’t need the Bible to tell us that.

We all sin and fall short of God’s glory. Either we accept God’s payment for our sin, or we have to pay in eternity. Your choice.

Thanks for being polite, btw. I appreciate civil discourse!

186

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
pookie wrote:

I’ve yet to witness even one person changing their minds about the topic after discussing it.

When you first plant a seed you don’t see it grow for a while.

Patience is a virtue.

:slight_smile:

I know. I still have hope for you and steve0; it’s not too late to give up the fairy tales and face reality.

:)[/quote]

Good to see you back, Pookie. Hope everything is OK with you!

187

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
I don’t really care what you say, personally about me. Get it? [/quote]

Yes you do. That’s why you responded.

[quote]
It matters only what God’s opinion is. If you were a true Christian, you would respond in that way. You are revealing your heart and that it is not right with God. [/quote]

What is God’s opinion of the way you are going about this?

[quote]
Again, according to your illogic, I am insane for posting what the Bible says and expounding on it,[/quote]

No, you are insane for doing the same thing over and over again yet expecting a different response. Many consider that the very definition of insanity.

[quote]
while it is OK for you to post strong opinions (as if you are an expert on everything) in your posts. OK for you, not OK and insane for me?[/quote]

This isn’t just about your strong opions. It is about YOUR APPROACH. It is about your inability to understand that you are doing more harm than good by going about this the way you are. Several people have written this to you including some who believe in God. You aren’t good at this.

[quote]
Again, what are YOU going to do about YOUR SIN?[/quote]

What are you going to do about your INSANITY?

188

[quote]Professor X wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
I don’t really care what you say, personally about me. Get it?

Yes you do. That’s why you responded.[/quote]

No I don’t. I respond so that I can expose illogic and confused thought on your part.[quote]

It matters only what God’s opinion is. If you were a true Christian, you would respond in that way. You are revealing your heart and that it is not right with God.

What is God’s opinion of the way you are going about this?[/quote]

Well let’s see what God says, shall we?: [b]

(1) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man?s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. Matthew 10:34-39

(2) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them . Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. Luke 11:44-52

(3) If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name?s sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But this cometh to pass , that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. John 15:18-25

(4) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father?s hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:26-31[/b]

Seems to me that the Master has led the way in the “methodology” of preaching God’s Word. I am NOT SAYING I am like Jesus, but I am saying that I am to follow Him and HIS WAYS!

Therefore, I would submit to you, based on the Bible, I am going about it in a way very consistent with the New Testament and Jesus’ example.[quote]

Again, according to your illogic, I am insane for posting what the Bible says and expounding on it,

No, you are insane for doing the same thing over and over again yet expecting a different response. Many consider that the very definition of insanity.

while it is OK for you to post strong opinions (as if you are an expert on everything) in your posts. OK for you, not OK and insane for me?

This isn’t just about your strong opions. It is about YOUR APPROACH. It is about your inability to understand that you are doing more harm than good by going about this the way you are. Several people have written this to you including some who believe in God. You aren’t good at this.

Again, what are YOU going to do about YOUR SIN?

What are you going to do about your INSANITY?[/quote]

If what I believe is insanity, then I will do nothing, because I know when I die and stand before God, He will grant me a pardon for my sin based upon the righteousness of His Son, in whom I believe.

Now, for my question: What are YOU going to do about YOUR SIN?

189

What makes you beleive that Jesus died for our sins? Becuase it is written in a book?

I am prepared to go as far as to beleive that there was once a man called Jesus who claimed to be the creator of the universe’s son. I also will go as far as to believe that this guy had many followers that would beleive any thing Jesus would say and follow him without question.

But how did he die for our sins?

Did he nail himself to the cross?

If jesus did exsist and he was crucified then it is more reasonable to belive that he really did want to be crucified and die a horrible and painful death, but once up on the cross he decided to blame his situation on everyone else’s sins ans claim to be dying for their sins.

NO NO NO Jesus you are up there becuase the Romans had enough of your BS.

It reminds me of the time a kid I knew who was really full of himself and a complete bullshitter and totally deluded too, started a fight with someone much tougher than himself, anyway the bulsshit kid got his ass totally whooped and afterwards this kid would not accept that he was just beaten up and made lots of excuses and told lies to people who did not witness the fight to make himself look good, when the truth is he got owned.

190

Steve, you consider yourself a prophet?

Mathew 7:6
Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Ecclesiastes 3

1 To everything there is a season,

  A time for every purpose under heaven: 
   2 A time to be born,

And a time to die;
A time to plant,
And a time to pluck what is planted;
3 A time to kill,
And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
And a time to build up;
4 A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones,
And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
And a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to gain,
And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
And a time to throw away;
7 A time to tear,
And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
And a time to speak;
8 A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.

Tell me, Steve, what makes this the time and the place for what you are doing?

191

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Steve, you consider yourself a prophet?[/quote]

Nope, just a believer who is concerned about the eternal destiny of others. That’s all…

192

[quote]electric_eales wrote:

What makes you beleive that Jesus died for our sins? Becuase it is written in a book?[/quote]

Not just “a” book, but God’s Book! [quote]

I am prepared to go as far as to beleive that there was once a man called Jesus who claimed to be the creator of the universe’s son. I also will go as far as to believe that this guy had many followers that would beleive any thing Jesus would say and follow him without question.[/q8uote]

That’s very nice of you, but no matter what or where you are ‘willing to go,’ Jesus Christ is Savior of the World and Lord of all![quote]

But how did he die for our sins?[/quote]

Read the Bible![quote]

Did he nail himself to the cross?[/quote]

Read the Bible! [quote]

If jesus did exsist and he was crucified then it is more reasonable to belive that he really did want to be crucified and die a horrible and painful death, but once up on the cross he decided to blame his situation on everyone else’s sins ans claim to be dying for their sins.[/quote]

Jesus came to do the Father’s will – that will was to die for the sins of mankind. To pay for man, that which man could never pay himself.[quote]

NO NO NO Jesus you are up there becuase the Romans had enough of your BS.[/quote]

Perhaps it helps you to scream against this, but Jesus did come to die for you – even you![quote]

It reminds me of the time a kid I knew who was really full of himself and a complete bullshitter and totally deluded too, started a fight with someone much tougher than himself, anyway the bulsshit kid got his ass totally whooped and afterwards this kid would not accept that he was just beaten up and made lots of excuses and told lies to people who did not witness the fight to make himself look good, when the truth is he got owned.
[/quote]

God doesn’t need any excuses. Jesus rose from the dead and proved Himself to be who He claimed to be.

We are sinners and we need to be saved from our sins. Jesus is the only way…

193

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Steve, you consider yourself a prophet?

Nope, just a believer who is concerned about the eternal destiny of others. That’s all…[/quote]

How does your concern translate over to making people upset and close their ears to an entire faith?

194

I do not understand how and why Jesus died for our sins?

What good does it do?

Even if it was his destiny and Jesus died on purpose for our sins, how does his death help anyone? What is the point?
What does it prove?

195

[quote]electric_eales wrote:

I do not understand how and why Jesus died for our sins?

What good does it do?

Even if it was his destiny and Jesus died on purpose for our sins, how does his death help anyone? What is the point?
What does it prove?[/quote]

Why do you care?

196

[quote]Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

I do not understand how and why Jesus died for our sins?

What good does it do?

Even if it was his destiny and Jesus died on purpose for our sins, how does his death help anyone? What is the point?
What does it prove?

Why do you care?[/quote]

Why do you care if I care?

197

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

I do not understand how and why Jesus died for our sins?

What good does it do?

Even if it was his destiny and Jesus died on purpose for our sins, how does his death help anyone? What is the point?
What does it prove?

Why do you care?

Why do you care if I care?

[/quote]

IF you care? If you don’t care, why are you asking questions?

198

I am asking questions becuase I am interested if the Christians in this thread have questioned what they have been taught, or do they just accept what is written in the bible without question.

I am a very curious fellow and I like to ask questions, even as a child if someone tried to preach to me and teach me the bible, and convert me to Christianity, I would have had many searching questions to ask, like for example ‘hows does being nailed to a cross and dying benift anyone’

I am a passionate atheist, and I am having a discussion with some passionate Christians about faith, you do not seem to be a passionate beliver or nonbeleiver Prof so why do you care enough to post in this thread?

199

[quote]electric_eales wrote:

I am a passionate atheist, and I am having a discussion with some passionate Christians about faith, you do not seem to be a passionate beliver or nonbeleiver Prof so why do you care enough to post in this thread?[/quote]

I believe in God. I just don’t believe in playing games with people who have no other goal but to degrade those who believe differently than they do. You happen to be playing games. You aren’t asking these questions to gain a deeper understanding of what I or anyone else believes. A “passionate atheist” shouldn’t be worried about what a “passionate Christian” believes. I am, however, interested in how someone could PASSIONATELY not believe in anything with regards to a higher power. That makes no sense at all. Why so much emotion…for nothing?

200

[quote]Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

I am a passionate atheist, and I am having a discussion with some passionate Christians about faith, you do not seem to be a passionate beliver or nonbeleiver Prof so why do you care enough to post in this thread?

I believe in God. I just don’t believe in playing games with people who have no other goal but to degrade those who believe differently than they do. You happen to be playing games. You aren’t asking these questions to gain a deeper understanding of what I or anyone else believes. A “passionate atheist” shouldn’t be worried about what a “passionate Christian” believes. I am, however, interested in how someone could PASSIONATELY not believe in anything with regards to a higher power. That makes no sense at all. Why so much emotion…for nothing? [/quote]

So you have no real interest in the discssion taking place in this thread, your presence here is what? thread police?

I am not playing games I am interested as to why Steveo and Zeb has accepted their faith but does not wish to question it further than what they have learnt in the bible, I think Steveo and Zeb would like to convert non beleivers, this may not be their main goal but from the PM’s I have received I am certain that they would like to convert non beleivers like myself.

So if they wish to convert me then I would like to learn more, why is that a problem for you?