Not really good with nagging. How about teasing reminders?
I’m more the carrot than the stick motivator.
You obviously did the right thing with the running…what if anything besides lungs have you seen improving?
Is running just a mental love? I only ask cause my hubby is always telling me running will get the legs i want…I of coarse know its a combination, just wondering your thoughts on any changes.
When I was doing step ups I’d use seven risers. You might want to go slightly lower because I’m a bit over 5’7 (although I have short legs so, whatever feels right). I’d do 100 step-ups, alternating legs (so, 50 each). It helped when I was training for my half marathon.
I’ve been doing stepups to a pretty high box. Weighted with DBs. I make the leg on the box do all the work pushing up as well as a slow eccentric like a pistol squat. These are hard.
Joe, I’m a fan of carrots.
Upscale, the only thing I’ve noticed that has improved with running is that my ability to walk a long way and to hike has vastly improved. When walking around a new city on vacation, my legs always used to get sore; now no longer. My wind is also better, and I anticipate being able to cross-country ski-skate for a longer amount of time this winter before having to stop and rest. I’ve noticed no changes in my physique, which is absolutely the way I want it to be.
Cal and Snap, I noticed knee cave on step ups. So I’ll have to be moderate with the height and increase slowly. Sonofabitch.
Definitely this was far from my best training weekend, but I did my best and I’ll take that.
Friday PM, there was an 18 mile bike ride to do errands and grab some lunch, followed by:
Sumo Deads (3s week)
95# 1 x 5
129.5# 1 x 3
148# 1 x 3
166.5# 1 x 3
115# 1 x 31
Honestly, my form was crappy for just about all those reps. I really need work on keeping a straight back and will have to figure out how best to accomplish this. The 31 reps was for a challenge on the Over-35 board, and was quite disappointing. Not for the total reps, but because I pulled at a deficit and this exacerbated my difficulty with keeping a straight back (the lower I have to bend, the worse my problem). Because I continued on with the reps despite rounding my back, I ended up with a sore lower back for the past two days. Stupid.
Step-ups (to the seat of the curl bench on setting 5)
BW 1 x 10 each leg
I noticed knee cave with this high step up position. Clearly I will have to lower the step and proceed with strict form, or else why bother? This single leg work is to CURE my knee cave, after all.
Pistols to bench
BW 1 x 10 each leg
I noticed way more knee cave when standing on my left leg.
Good mornings
Bar 1 x 10
Stupid idea, since my lower back was already toast.
Saturday’s training was a successful 5k run (28 straight running minutes) at my faster-ever pace (8:50). This was followed by a 25 mile bicycle ride.
Saturday dinner was at the home of a friend with a massive wine cellar. Wine is so delicious, yet so poisonous for me. I woke up Sunday AM feeling a bit like ass.
Sunday AM training suffered from the aforesaid wine consumption.
Bench Press (5’s day)
Incline (because all the flat benches were taken)
Bar 1 x 5
65.5# 1 x 4 <–this felt HUGELY heavy. Uh, oh.
Flat bench
75.5# 1 x 5 ← felt really heavy and slow
85.5# 1 x 1 <—no go. I’ll have to repeat this 5’s week next week
BBB 65# 1 x 10, 55# 4 x 10 <–this tiny weight was embarrassingly difficult
supersetted with my cable hip ad/abductions
Kroc rows
25# 1 x 15
30# 1 x 10
35# 1 x 10
Dips
BW 1 x 20
Chest supported rows (using a bench set to incline and DBs)
30s 3 x 10
supersetted with
Triceps V-Bar pushdowns
60# 3 x 12
1-armed DB chest press
30# 7 R/5 L
23# 7 R/7 L
I figured if I wasn’t strong today, I’d stay and go for volume. This was followed by an 18 mile bike ride.
Now, I pretty tired and plan to sit on the couch for a bit.
I agree with taking the riser down - you don’t want your body compensating for the caving knees. And good job on increasing your cardio vascular endurance. Especially with your love of biking and skiing.
On the challenge lift: had you seen how Snap set up her bar to prevent the deficit? I’m sure you would have had more reps done with a similar set up.
I’d tell ya to eat more or lift before the bike and run but you’ve heard it before. So keep fighting 
Well Kimba you have a relatively unique situation from most of the other of us here. You aren’t chasing one goal or the other but riding a line that travels through strength, endurance, and fitness and because of that its going to be tough for you to make big strides in any one particular aspect. More than likely you are going to make slow but steady gains in all three over time o try not to let yourself get too frustrated.
Anytime you do, just look in the mirrior and you’ll see your succeeding admirably.
If I was to make a suggestion it would be to fix your DL back rounding issue by not doing DLs. They are not working now so you have nothing to lose.
Focus the time and energy you spend DLing and get strong in your core by building erectors and abs. Do good mornings with weight (don’t be afraid of adding plates, just be very aware of form) and planks with weight (short time under load, no 2 minute planks) and ab rollouts. Do this for 2 months and then come back to DLs. You won’t lose anything by not doing them. If you want to keep them in, just do low rep sets (1-3) for speed once every couple weeks.
And if you are not, then drink a protein shake right after training. Otherwise much of the effort is in vain.
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
Well Kimba you have a relatively unique situation from most of the other of us here. You aren’t chasing one goal or the other but riding a line that travels through strength, endurance, and fitness and because of that its going to be tough for you to make big strides in any one particular aspect. More than likely you are going to make slow but steady gains in all three over time o try not to let yourself get too frustrated.
Anytime you do, just look in the mirrior and you’ll see your succeeding admirably.
[/quote]
I like this Joe. Great insight! I feel like it applies to me as well, so its nice to reinforce the idea that hard work-in produces results, even if the results one is seeking is super goal driven. I’m good with that!
Keep at the unilateral stuff, Kimba. I think it really does work! As of now I have terrible knee cave on my bum leg and I’ve been prescribed all sort of anti-knee-caving single leg work and I feel it definitely is helping. And don’t worry about having to take the step down (or bring it up depending on the exercise) - I start everything off a single fucking riser. Lol! It feels pathetic, but whatever - one must progress!
If it means anything, my single leg work is both consistent and abundant, particularly since right now i’m looking to fix imbalances. So for my knee cave (and don’t get me wrong, I have TONS of imbalances I’m fixing) what I do is BW 3x10 on pistols, step-ups, and step downs (like pistols but with shorter ROM). And I pay very close attention to whether my hip is rising up when stepping up or down which shows that I’m compensating for the knee-cave, the knee cave being a symptom of a weak abductor and vmo.
I’d be happy to video what good and bad form looks like on these so you can see how my hip rises and my knee caves. Turns out in my case, to fix my knee cave I need to sit my ass back while tucking my tailbone in. Weird.
Sorry for the rant!! You’re doing awesome! Especially on the running. Keep it up, woman!
I really love you guys. Seriously! You take the time to follow my training over the long haul and care enough to think about what might help me and make me better. Group hug! (with apologies to those weirded out by hugging).
Frenchie, no question that I shouldn’t bike or run before lifting. Some days other considerations besides optimal lifting prevail. I need to allow for that and accept the lesser results without whining like a little girl.
Joe, I do lose sight of the fact that combining lifting with biking/running means compromising results on both (to a lesser or greater degree on any given week). And, it is true that I am primarily interested in the mirror. Vanity thy name is Kimba, and not ashamed at all.
git, it took me some mulling-over after reading your comment to properly respond to it. I firmly believe that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You are pointing that out to me in a very clear way.
Since the beginning of 2011, I have been doing sumo rack pulls to address my deadlift form issues. It is now almost the end of the year, and a truthful evaluation of the results of this strategy are…I got really good at rack pulls, but my form off the floor when trying “heavy” weight hasn’t really improved at all.
So why shouldn’t I deep-six the deadlifts for a couple of months and work on back, abs and glutes? Instead of deadlift day, I could do RDLs, pull-throughs and barbell hip thrusts for glutes, good mornings and weighted back extensions for my lower back, and seek to dominate the ab rollouts. Weighted planks scare me for some reason, but I’ll bet my husband would delight in putting a plate on my back.
And, since today is Honesty Day, my squat workouts this year haven’t done shit for my knee cave. I’d been trying to squat low weights right up to the knee cave threshold, but that hasn’t worked yet. Perhaps while I’m at it, I should deep-six the squats in favor of a shit-ton of carefully performed single leg work. I could still play with front squats, while I’m busy with walking lunges, step-ups, BSSs, pistols and the like.
Maschy, my day would be TREMENDOUSLY improved with a Maschy video highlighting hips, knees, legs and butt. I do appreciate knowing that you are struggling with a similar issue, and I would love to learn with you and from you.
So there are my training thoughts for the day. The winds of change are blowing…
The ability to honestly self-assess, and make changes, is a great skill. I wish I was better at it, TBH.
Few things, if you don’t mind:
- the good mornings will work pretty much everything…hamstrings, erectors and upper back. I would make them a priority.
- RDLs I like but you will get more out of GMs
- I can’t get any serious load on pull-throughs so they become more of a warm-up / assistance exercise
- weighted back extensions are pretty good but I wouldn’t do them instead of good mornings
- hip thrusts…can’t comment since I’ve never done them to any degree. I’ve tried but the position is awkward.
- I feel ab roller helps me more than any other ab movement. But not for high reps. If you can do 10 unweighted then take a little 10lb plate, put it on your back and see how that feels. It will suck in a good way. I was watching a youtube vid of Konstantinov doing ab roller reps (apparently his favorite exercise) with a little more than 1/2 his bodyweight (165lbs) on his back. That is my new definition of strong abs. I can do reps with 45lbs. I want to get to 90.
And, there is nothing sexier than developed hamstrings, glutes, erectors and upper back on a woman. I believe they call that a win-win!
Sometimes it’s good to rest an exercise and work on other things, so definitely give it a try. I doubt you’ll lose strength on your main lifts. And yes, you still look good, so that’s the main thing!
I just loving perusing this log because there are so many good, thoughtful responses that I walk away feeling a little bit more enlightened. I also like being reminded that training multiple aspects is just fine; as is training for vanity purposes
My two cents:
-first, the leaps and bounds you’ve made with the running is astounding, but not surprising. Congratulations on becoming one of the few people who run for pleasure.
-I can’t get on board with completely getting rid of deads and squats. The body needs to perform the motion in order to learn it the correct way. I think if you take them out and then come back in a month or two, you’ll find you have the same problems. I DO think you should do more single leg work and strengthening surrounding musculature; but only in addition to squats/pulling for lower weight where you can maintain form, but for higher reps.
And because I’m a nerd and have been in research hell the past year, here’s a Poliquin article that I think supports that. Key points that I took away (if you’re not in the mood to read or say, have other things to be doing with your time), is this:
“If the stimulus is always presented to the body in exactly the same way, it’s efficiency will diminish”
and also this
“One must force adaptation of the neuromuscular system through volume (accumulation phase) and then stimulate it through intensity (intensification phase)”
(I never know when links will work on here, so if it doesn’t I’ll pm you)
[quote]cholulalula wrote:
I just loving perusing this log because there are so many good, thoughtful responses that I walk away feeling a little bit more enlightened. I also like being reminded that training multiple aspects is just fine; as is training for vanity purposes
My two cents:
-first, the leaps and bounds you’ve made with the running is astounding, but not surprising. Congratulations on becoming one of the few people who run for pleasure.
-I can’t get on board with completely getting rid of deads and squats. The body needs to perform the motion in order to learn it the correct way. I think if you take them out and then come back in a month or two, you’ll find you have the same problems. I DO think you should do more single leg work and strengthening surrounding musculature; but only in addition to squats/pulling for lower weight where you can maintain form, but for higher reps.
And because I’m a nerd and have been in research hell the past year, here’s a Poliquin article that I think supports that. Key points that I took away (if you’re not in the mood to read or say, have other things to be doing with your time), is this:
“If the stimulus is always presented to the body in exactly the same way, it’s efficiency will diminish”
and also this
“One must force adaptation of the neuromuscular system through volume (accumulation phase) and then stimulate it through intensity (intensification phase)”
(I never know when links will work on here, so if it doesn’t I’ll pm you)[/quote]
Under a Westside template, you don’t need to deadlift often to make the DL go up. You work on the movements that will make the structures stronger that support a bigger DL. Squats and GMs are the best movements for that. I agree with you and don’t recommend dropping squats while trying to fix the DL issue.
As I mentioned, you can add some DLs in the mix but in the 50-60% of max range. Something like 8-10 singles once every couple of weeks. These are not to get stronger but rather to get more explosive and keep your form ingrained.
High rep DLs will build some muscle but if I was going to do anything for reps to solve this problem it would be more GMs…assuming proper recovery. Right now the issue is that Kimba’s back is not strong enough to stay tight under load. My recent experience is that nothing hits your back harder and more directly, and teaches you to stay tight, than GMs.
That makes sense.
Kimba, regarding Halloween cupcakes - my friend Colin’s had a brilliant idea. He’s made “trick or treat” cupcakes. Some are lovely toffee flavour. And some contain a lot of chilli. Heh.
Good stuff in here. I agree on the responses you are getting, very well thought out…
somebunnies special
Thus spoke Git.
And it’s good advice. I’m doing two variations of GMs right now (standing and seated). They kick my ass. And DL is the only lift that I can maintain my strength as long as I’m squatting heavy and doing all the right accessory work.
I think I know where your head is. But I could be wrong.
git, that Konstantinov ab rollout video is SICK. I get the love for the GM. Like Snap, I can practice them standing and seated, for reps. I can DEFINITELY weight the pull-throughs to make them hard for me, and I’ve had great success with the hip thrusts when I’ve done them. Glutes, as you might imagine, are important to me.
lula, the Poliquin link didn’t come through, but I’d love to read it. PM me. As for completely getting rid of squats and deads, that was hyperbole (or wishful thinking). What I have to do is take them off 5/3/1. I’d only put them back on this month, but it is already SO not working. I can always pull 135 for a few reps and squat up to the point of knee cave to keep my hand in. But if I’m losing my arch pulling above 150 lbs., there is little point to pushing the weight right now, as git pointed out.
Cal, adding chili powder to the chocolate Halloween cupcakes is a KILLER idea! Yum!
Upscale, I’m happy you find something helpful here.
Snapper, if you know where my head is, PLEASE TELL ME!!! Most days it feels like its up my arse.
Here is what I’m currently thinking: I train three days per week, so this four day plan sort of rolls over into the next week, but that is great for my recovery.
Day 1 - Military Press Day on 5/3/1
MPs
Boring but big volume
Chins
Ab rollouts
Day 2 - Deadlift day
Pulling a few singles at 135-155 lbs. or repping some lighter weights
GMs - standing
Pull-throughs or RDLs
Hip thrusts
Single leg RDLs
Weighted Planks or Hanging Leg Raises
Day 3 - Bench Day on 5/3/1
Bench Press
Boring but big volume
Rows of all variations
Dips
1 armed DB presses
Ab rollouts
Day 4 - Squats
A few squat reps at below knee cave weights
Front squats
GMs seated
BSS
Walking lunges
Step Ups
Pistols
Ab rollouts/Weighted Planks/HLRs depending on recovery
Today’s run was successful - 15 min. out, 15 min. back without stopping. Covered 3.33 miles at an 8:59 pace. Nothing hurt, so life is good.
Have you considered keeping the 5/3/1 format but setting your squat max as the highest weight you can do without the knee cave? Same with the low back rounding on the DL?
Some really good advice in here Kimba. I do agree GM’s for a big dl. I can’t wait to do them with a straight bar again, SSB and gm’s are really tough. I had my son do seated gm’s the other day and it was a challenge finding the right foot placement, he found putting feet more in front was good so he could push thru heels was best for him.