Times Square Bomb Found by Muslim Immigrant

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

When someone reads that book and then chooses to fly a plane into a building because of that book [/quote]

That is why I asked you in my previous post if you can understand what would motivate a Muslim to commit mass murder. It isn’t from a goddamn book.

I have nothing else to say to you on this matter.[/quote]

And there is the actually crux of your arguement. You divorce the philosophy from the act, separating the mindset from the anger and removing the history from the setting.

You have to agree that those who wage Jihad against the West believe in a fundamental take on Islam - this belief system commands attacks against any non-islamic entity and condones/promotes dying in your struggle against that entity, promising reward and honor for that sacrifice - it is the belief system which enables the action - the two are inseparable.

You honestly believe that it is only because of the actions of the west that any conflict exists between Islam and the West, while I have proved over and over again with facts that Islam has never needed the actions of the West to justify its continual war against Western Civilization.

You treat the current conflict between the two parties as something that exists in a vacuum, ie peaceful muslims minding their own business were invaded and assaulted out of the blue by an unprovoked Western world and thus any resultant action is entirely the fault of the West.

This is not the case at all - you cannot separate modern events from historical events. You cannot divorce a religion violently opposed to the existence of the West from any resultant attacks upon the West.

You actually believe that by removing itself fro the ME entirely, America would then be at peace with Islam for all of eternity. This would never be the case. Regardless of any action or inaction, involvement or non-involvement, at the end of the day, Islam demands that Western Civilization submit or be destroyed. At the very most, our action have only provided a convenient modern rallying cry for a religion’s followers who were already hell-bent on war against us anyway.

You see only the last 20 years in isolation, I see the last 1400 as a continual whole.

You believe Islam is no threat to you personally, because you are anti-government, but Islam doens’t care - it will only want to know if you will submit or not.

62

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

So you are saying the Qur’an is a fairy tale book? Are you muslim, or are you just playing the Devils advocate? I really do not follow your arguments.[/quote]

Fairy tale book = figure of speech. I call the Bible the same thing.

It’s just a term I used for it. And no, I’m not Muslim.

[/quote]

Thank you for clairifing, because I had not clue. I am just trying to figure out where you are coming from for your arguments.

63

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

When someone reads that book and then chooses to fly a plane into a building because of that book [/quote]

That is why I asked you in my previous post if you can understand what would motivate a Muslim to commit mass murder. It isn’t from a goddamn book.

I have nothing else to say to you on this matter.[/quote]

And there is the actually crux of your arguement. You divorce the philosophy from the act, separating the mindset from the anger and removing the history from the setting.

You have to agree that those who wage Jihad against the West believe in a fundamental take on Islam - this belief system commands attacks against any non-islamic entity and condones/promotes dying in your struggle against that entity, promising reward and honor for that sacrifice - it is the belief system which enables the action - the two are inseparable.

You honestly believe that it is only because of the actions of the west that any conflict exists between Islam and the West, while I have proved over and over again with facts that Islam has never needed the actions of the West to justify its continual war against Western Civilization.

You treat the current conflict between the two parties as something that exists in a vacuum, ie peaceful muslims minding their own business were invaded and assaulted out of the blue by an unprovoked Western world and thus any resultant action is entirely the fault of the West.

This is not the case at all - you cannot separate modern events from historical events. You cannot divorce a religion violently opposed to the existence of the West from any resultant attacks upon the West.

You actually believe that by removing itself fro the ME entirely, America would then be at peace with Islam for all of eternity. This would never be the case. Regardless of any action or inaction, involvement or non-involvement, at the end of the day, Islam demands that Western Civilization submit or be destroyed. At the very most, our action have only provided a convenient modern rallying cry for a religion’s followers who were already hell-bent on war against us anyway.

You see only the last 20 years in isolation, I see the last 1400 as a continual whole.

You believe Islam is no threat to you personally, because you are anti-government, but Islam doens’t care - it will only want to know if you will submit or not.[/quote]

You know what, maybe the Smurfs also want you to submit or die-

Who the fuck cares, what will they do, swim across the ocean and behead you with their scimitars?

Besides, what America wants from these insurgents is exactly that:

To submit or to die.

It is funny how they apparently want to kill you, but it is always them who die.

It is also interesting that they want you to live their kind of life and yet you install governments and your way of life in their countries.

It also telling that they are so belligerent yet you spend more on “defense” than all other nations combined and use those weapons constantly.

You are everything that you despise in them.

64

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

When someone reads that book and then chooses to fly a plane into a building because of that book [/quote]

That is why I asked you in my previous post if you can understand what would motivate a Muslim to commit mass murder. It isn’t from a goddamn book.

I have nothing else to say to you on this matter.[/quote]

And there is the actually crux of your arguement. You divorce the philosophy from the act, separating the mindset from the anger and removing the history from the setting.

You have to agree that those who wage Jihad against the West believe in a fundamental take on Islam - this belief system commands attacks against any non-islamic entity and condones/promotes dying in your struggle against that entity, promising reward and honor for that sacrifice - it is the belief system which enables the action - the two are inseparable.

You honestly believe that it is only because of the actions of the west that any conflict exists between Islam and the West, while I have proved over and over again with facts that Islam has never needed the actions of the West to justify its continual war against Western Civilization.

You treat the current conflict between the two parties as something that exists in a vacuum, ie peaceful muslims minding their own business were invaded and assaulted out of the blue by an unprovoked Western world and thus any resultant action is entirely the fault of the West.

This is not the case at all - you cannot separate modern events from historical events. You cannot divorce a religion violently opposed to the existence of the West from any resultant attacks upon the West.

You actually believe that by removing itself fro the ME entirely, America would then be at peace with Islam for all of eternity. This would never be the case. Regardless of any action or inaction, involvement or non-involvement, at the end of the day, Islam demands that Western Civilization submit or be destroyed. At the very most, our action have only provided a convenient modern rallying cry for a religion’s followers who were already hell-bent on war against us anyway.

You see only the last 20 years in isolation, I see the last 1400 as a continual whole.

You believe Islam is no threat to you personally, because you are anti-government, but Islam doens’t care - it will only want to know if you will submit or not.[/quote]

You know what, maybe the Smurfs also want you to submit or die-

Who the fuck cares, what will they do, swim across the ocean and behead you with their scimitars?

Besides, what America wants from these insurgents is exactly that:

To submit or to die.

It is funny how they apparently want to kill you, but it is always them who die.

It is also interesting that they want you to live their kind of life and yet you install governments and your way of life in their countries.

It also telling that they are so belligerent yet you spend more on “defense” than all other nations combined and use those weapons constantly.

You are everything that you despise in them.

[/quote]

That is your point of view Orion. I can see why you and all the others beleive the way you do. Again we would love to pull our troops out. We would love for the people to have a voice in their own countries. Do I know the true motivation of the elitiests in Washington? No, but I have to beleive that they want all people to be free. Did Sadam Hussein or the Taliban want their people to be free to choose their own religion? Did they beleive that the press has the right to print whatever they want? Did they beleive that the people have the right to vote them out of office. You all may not like us, but freedoms started with us. France followed America in turning against the Monarchy. South America, and even Mexico followed America to have independence. America is the Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave. Why do people from all over the world want to move to America? We are going to see in November if Democracy actually works here in America. Everyone will be watching. I just wish more that 45% of Americans would vote.

65

[quote]orion wrote:

You know what, maybe the Smurfs also want you to submit or die-

Who the fuck cares, what will they do, swim across the ocean and behead you with their scimitars?

Besides, what America wants from these insurgents is exactly that:

To submit or to die.

It is funny how they apparently want to kill you, but it is always them who die.

It is also interesting that they want you to live their kind of life and yet you install governments and your way of life in their countries.

It also telling that they are so belligerent yet you spend more on “defense” than all other nations combined and use those weapons constantly.

You are everything that you despise in them.

[/quote]

SMURFS? LMAO - are you saying muslims are only a figment of our imagination? LMAO - what a tool . . .

In case you hadn’t heard, they are called airplanes and boats . . . oh and yeah - MISSILES!. If you missed all of that, you probably are also unaware of a device called an EMP warhead.

What is it with you muslim apologists claiming that Muslims are bunch of ignorant goat-herders? You guys are the bigots - at least I understand their intelligence, humanity and accomplishments.

America only asks that they either lay down their arms and stop attacking us or (if they won’t stop the war) die - we want nothing more than that.

We have attempted to help one nation to establish a peaceful, democratic government - if they choose to keep it - great, if they choose to do something else great - but at least we gave them the freedom to make that choice (oh vile us)

I’m all for changing the name back to the War Department and calling it our war budget - what was your point?

69

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

…You see only the last 20 years in isolation, I see the last 1400 as a continual whole.

You believe Islam is no threat to you personally, because you are anti-government, but Islam doens’t care - it will only want to know if you will submit or not.[/quote]

Poor students of history can’t grasp this.[/quote]

True, Push, sad but True

Remind me of the Chinese government leader (name slips my mind) when asked what he thought of the French Revolution (or was it American? - brain fart) - replied that it was too soon to tell

70

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

Again we would love to pull our troops out. We would love for the people to have a voice in their own countries.
[/quote]

Whose WE?

…and they want all people to be healthy and rich and happy, blah blah blah…
Why do you “have to believe” this?

Elite in Washington are just like us. They are motivated by MORE. They want MORE money, MORE power and fame, MORE gadgets and widgets, MORE benefits for their family and friends (their loved ones)…

… but it stops at family and friends. You and me, we are just faceless people. The elites have no real ties to us, no bond. Just like I could care less if Henry Waxman dies, he could care less if my grandmother dies.

Bottom Line: After all those “MORES” are fulfilled, our freedoms are looked at. Thats what happened with the Patriot Act. Thats what is happening with all these reforms.

I don’t.
P Diddys “Vote or Die” did more harm than good. I just wish people informed themselves and established a philosophical base before picking a political party and learning all the issues that they are for or against. You know, working forward as apposed to working backwards to which so many love to do.

71

[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

Again we would love to pull our troops out. We would love for the people to have a voice in their own countries.
[/quote]

Whose WE?

…and they want all be people to be healthy and rich and happy, blah blah blah…
Why do you “have to believe” this?

Elite in Washington are just like us. They are motivated by MORE. They want MORE money, MORE power and fame, MORE gadgets and widgets, MORE benefits for their family and friends (their loved ones)…

… but it stops at family and friends. You and me, we are just faceless people. The elites have no real ties to us, no bond. Just like I could care less if Henry Waxman dies, he could care less if my grandmother dies.

Bottom Line: After all those “MORES” are fulfilled, our freedoms are looked at. Thats what happened with the Patriot Act. Thats what is happening with all these reforms.

I don’t.
P Diddys “Vote or Die” did more harm than good. I just wish people informed themselves and established a philosophical base before picking a political party and learning all the issues that they are for or against. You know, working forward as apposed to working backwards to which so many love to do.
[/quote]

I respect you Clamp. Good post and good points. If you want an argument it is not coming from me.

73

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

What could be more important than insuring that the American public continues to believe that all Muslims are bad???

[/quote]

Indeed[/quote]

Yeah, indeed.

Indeed your simple-minded, bigoted, internet-educated view of Americans is once again blatently obvious.[/quote]

This

74

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

…You see only the last 20 years in isolation, I see the last 1400 as a continual whole.

You believe Islam is no threat to you personally, because you are anti-government, but Islam doens’t care - it will only want to know if you will submit or not.[/quote]

Poor students of history can’t grasp this.[/quote]

Yet, even the best students of incorrect history will always be lost.

75

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
SMURFS? LMAO - are you saying muslims are only a figment of our imagination? [/quote]

But since you cannot know every single Muslim that ever existed or exits now and since you admittedly are not Muslim you can only have any knowledge of Islam in your imagination.

This is not necessarily a bad thing – just realty.

76

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

…You see only the last 20 years in isolation, I see the last 1400 as a continual whole.

You believe Islam is no threat to you personally, because you are anti-government, but Islam doens’t care - it will only want to know if you will submit or not.[/quote]

Poor students of history can’t grasp this.[/quote]

Yet, even the best students of incorrect history will always be lost.
[/quote]

That may be true, but I’m not gving up on Orion and Dustin - they can learn, dammit!

77

[quote]Eli B wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

What could be more important than insuring that the American public continues to believe that all Muslims are bad???

[/quote]

Indeed[/quote]

Yeah, indeed.

Indeed your simple-minded, bigoted, internet-educated view of Americans is once again blatently obvious.[/quote]

This
[/quote]

But unlike the “simple-minded, bigoted, internet-educated view of Muslims” a lot of Americans seem to have, my delussions do not kill people.

Which is really all you can ask for.

78

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
SMURFS? LMAO - are you saying muslims are only a figment of our imagination? [/quote]

But since you cannot know every single Muslim that ever existed or exits now and since you admittedly are not Muslim you can only have any knowledge of Islam in your imagination.

This is not necessarily a bad thing – just realty.[/quote]

so Muslims are just a figment of Dustin’s imagination? okay . . . kewl, so you’re saying no more Dustin, no more Muslims? that’s just sick and twisted, dude - leave Dustin alone!

79

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

  1. I do indeed have little faith in Muricans not swallowing propaganda fed to them. Muricans have a long history of believing whatever the government tells them.
    [/quote]

This is truly hilarious coming from you, the guy “scared” of a Bible college down the road from your place. Truly, unbelievably, fucking hilarious.[/quote]

I don’t follow.

You disagree with what I said or just wanted a reason to try and make a joke?

80

[quote]orion wrote:

But unlike the “simple-minded, bigoted, internet-educated view of Muslims” a lot of Americans seem to have, my delussions do not kill people.

Which is really all you can ask for.

[/quote]

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Christians,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Christian.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the Conservatives,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Conservative.

THEN THEY CAME for the Capitalists
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Capitalist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

Ignoring a problem is not protection againsts its effects . . .