Yes it does pale in comparison professor I agree. However two wrongs do not make a right.
And simply because injustice was done to those people in the past does not justify the reverse either. But as you said it “pales in comparison”. However that does not exist anymore. Why feel sorry for yourself and others when it is all in the past? It canot be changed nor can it ever be. In any case I personally just think it makes far more sense to hire whoever is best for the job rather than a percentage of race. Because as I stated previously I believe in hiring by quality, not skin color. And if that person is black, white, asian, purprle or whatever that is who should get the job. It’s unfortunate you have to take my situation at my job with sarcasm just as was done to the blacks in the past [no not nearly the severity (I would not dream of comparing them to that extent) but the attitude is still there; these days one cannot be obvious about anything thanks to mass media. It gives too much away too fast]. Besides I was never asking for sympathy as it was simply a mild comparison. I do think it is time to get over the bitterness that blacks have today because of something that happend before many of them were even born. However in no way should they be forgotten because those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Don’t worry, those who have done that kind of evil will answer for it. It’s unfortunate that the world seems to be unwilling to find a “sane balance”. And yes Bill Cosby is indeed very funny. His “Bill Cosby Himself” had me rolling on the floor! 
BTW, is this on DVD yet? I admit I’ve gotten spoiled with DVD. hehe.
WOW are we still on this subject. Yes of course we are because people can’t move on. Why? Because people have to get involved in others business. To many “GROUPS” of people dwell on the past. Funniest part is they weren’t even alive at the time and really are not affected at all by the past no matter what kind of SPIN you want to put on it. Sure blacks as an example may get the short end of the stick for whatever reason but so do many of us for many reasons including whites. Try being a white guy with and asian girlfriend then walk into a nightclub where the men are mostly black and hispanic. Trust me you will be getting all the prejudice you can handle. So you might have to work a little harder. Just do it and shut up. My father was diagnosed with Alzheimers disease when I was 12 years old. We lived below the poverty line for the rest of my teen years and while most kids were being coddled and living with the comfort of a normal family by the time I was 13 I had a full time job after school to help my family survive. I did not quit school or resort to drugs, alchahol or anything like it. While most kids were enjoying their weekends being reckless I had to stay at home on nights off to care for my father which included having to wipe his ass for him. So why am I a well adjusted individual? Simple in this life you take responsibility for yourself, respect yourself and others and you realize that its not easy in this world and you have to fight for what you want. So to all out there who think that racism or prejudice sucks your right it does but you know what deal with it. Not all white people are racist and the ones that are are ass**les. Same no matter what group is doing it to another. One more topic for everyone out there. Stop expecting people to take you seriously when you look, dress or act stupid. For example alot of young blacks, hispanics and whites do not speak english properly at all and dress like slobs. This will not get you any respect. Dress like an adult and speak english properly and you will get the job or the respect you are looking for if you deserve it. Also stop listening to people like AL SHARPTON. If this guy had his way half of everyone on tv would be black and half of all companies would be owned by blacks. Do the math people TV is a reflection of society and less than 20% of the population is black so how does Sharpton expect there to be more than that percentage on TV come on use some common sense.
DA MAN wrote: "Ok, thats it. Prof, my man, you are very bigotted, admit it or not. You
think that just because a white man owns a company he is less
inclined to hire a black man? Why? Because he is white? "
-No, because it has been proven statistically to occur which was the force behind promoting AA. You may not personally be guilty of it, however, if it was not occurring in majority, those stats would not be so off center.
DA MAN wrote: "That is the
exact same thing as saying someone is ignorant because the are
black. THE EXACT SAME THING. How can you fault someone else for
doing something that you do yourself? "
-What are you talking about? How is acknowledging the fact that it appears that certain races are more likely to hire someone of their same racial background bigoted? It has been proven.
DA MAN wrote: “Seems like a bit of a double
standard to me. Mufassa, what is up w/ you? You seem to be getting
very hot under the collar here when ppl just make points, not trying to
say you are anything or they are anything, just saying that this is what
they have noticed or been through. And you and prof get on this
‘oppression is OUR thing’ rant… Come on, guys.”
-I have heard this particular argument before and it strikes me as very “blind” every time I hear it. We are responding with emotion because we have dealt with it emotionally. I have grown up with it to a certain degree as have most black people in this country if their skin is darker than Bryant Gumble’s. That is why.
DA MAN wrote: " Open your eyes.
Just cuz someone is white doesnt mean they are racist. "
-True.
DA MAN wrote: “And if you
think that, then you are racist, and need to do some serious
reevaluation… I seem to recall a white man who had recently been
pulled from his truck and beaten nearly to death by a group of black
men for no apparent reason saying something along the lines of ‘Cant
we all just get along?’”
-Yeah, just disregard the fact that this was on the heels of one of the most blatant and public expressions of racism against a black man to ever be shown on national television since post-slavery or the LA riots in the 60’s. I assume that if the tables had been turned and whites were making up the majority who had experienced off the wall police brutality for years, you actually believe that the same would not have happened?
Rodney King was a drug addict, who resisted arrest. He had drugs on him at the time and was under the influence of coke I believe. Of course you didn’t see any of that on the video. The piece shit had been arrested before this and after said incident. I’m not going to deny what I saw. The police did go overboard. But when you resist arrest and don’t cooperate with what they say, you loose your rights. You aren’t a cop and you don’t know the kind of people they put up with on a daily basis. Especially in South Central LA, or wherever it was. Sorry, but someone who breaks the law over and over again doesn’t deserve my sympathy or pity, even if some pissed off cops rough them up. Whether he’s black or white. I wish cops had more freedom to treat these assholes this way. The streets might actually be safer if this were allowed.
Yea, and Rodney King wasn’t high on PCP and doing 100 down I5? I white and I have experienced racism myself, from blacks and hispanics. When I was a kid I move to a town outside of New Orleans and I was one of the few whitekids there. During the first weeks of class I was in a fight almost everyday. Why, well…I don’t know, maybe they didn’t like my sunglasses or I was on their playground. Who knows, but I let you guess on what I think. You ever been walking, when a group of whiteguys passes you and starts calling you ni***r or other racial slurs? They demand your money when you’re not going to give it to them? Well, I have except it was blacks say hey whiteboy, blah blah blah, give me your shoes. Yea, white people are racist pigs and blacks, hispanics, asains etc…aren’t. I’ve got a Filipino girl friend and every time we go some where I got Asain guys staring at us. We ignore it and go on our way, but does it still bother me? Well, of course it does. Look, I guess what I’m getting at here is,… We all probably at some time in our lives can say that we were a victim of racial discrimination. I know I sure as hell can, but we ALL just need to stop. We need to learn to accept and appreciate each other and all our disversities. Finally, I the words of a wise man, I’m not racist I hate everyone equally
Love, peace, and hairgrease…I’m out. J
I have a feeling OJ is going to end up in this discussion. Whoops. I started it. Sorry. Kato Kaelin is a loser.
Right on the money Phil and James. Agreed. You guys obviously stated what I was attempting to better than I. Good job ALthough one point But one thing: I’ve seen the show “Cops” many times and my dad has a friend who is a cop. Allowing police officers to simply beat a guy senseless is nazism in my book. I mean there were about 5-7 cops around him. They could have simply held him down while the others handcuffed him. Now this obviously does not justify the huge riot that insued afterwords but it nevertheless was unnessecary from what I could see. I believe there is a thin line between proper arrest proceedure and brutalizing simply cause a guy wearing a badge happens to be pissed off. At the same time poliveman’s hands have been tied these days. I think a sane balance would by a remedy (something this world seems to have an inability to understand typically).
–prof wrote–No, because it has been proven statistically to occur which was the force behind promoting AA. You may not personally be guilty of it, however, if it was not occurring in majority, those stats would not be so off center.—I would like to see these statistics, and the dates they were published. When AA was instituted, there most likely was major bias. But that was YEARS ago. This is now, not then. --prof wrote–What are you talking about? How is acknowledging the fact that it appears that certain races are more likely to hire someone of their same racial background bigoted? It has been proven.—If you wish to go that route, then you must also acknowledge that a majority of the prison population of this fine nation is black, and what it leads one to believe given that fact. --prof wrote–I have heard this particular argument before and it strikes me as very “blind” every time I hear it. We are responding with emotion because we have dealt with it emotionally. I have grown up with it to a certain degree as have most black people in this country if their skin is darker than Bryant Gumble’s. That is why.-- Don’t act like just cuz you are black your life was any harder than anyone elses. You don’t know that. You seem to be doing pretty well for yourself. The self-pity is not a very appealing quality, prof. You are in the medical field, and evidently succeeding. That doesn’t sound like ‘the man’ has been holding you down to me. You are very presumptuous, prof. Prejudicial, if you will…. --prof wrote—Yeah, just disregard the fact that this was on the heels of one of the most blatant and public expressions of racism against a black man to ever be shown on national television since post-slavery or the LA riots in the 60’s. I assume that if the tables had been turned and whites were making up the majority who had experienced off the wall police brutality for years, you actually believe that the same would not have happened?—I will admit that Rodney was horrible. No matter if he was hopped up or not, resisted arrest or not. But that does not in any way shape or form make what happened to the white guy right or justified. Two wrongs STILL don’t make a right. You are educated, you should know this. Rioting in the streets, throwing hissy fits like little children, and nearly killing an innocent man is no way to send a good message about your race. . Do you believe in an eye for an eye? Because that is what it seems you are eluding to. --Do you see where I am coming from? You are supporting a stereotype by your behavior. You seem to be behaving like the stereotypical ‘angry black man.’ And this just gives racists fuel for their fire, because you are playing the exact role they believed you would. Think for a second how your actions look. Accusations of white business men being racist, getting quite angered (it seems) at the view that perhaps racism is in fact on the decline and that just because a white man owns/runs a business that he isnt a racist. You are reinforcing a stereotype. And if you reinforce one sterotype, you also reinforce the idea that other preconceived notions (stereotypes) are indeed sound. You strengthened the views of any bigot. Don’t do that, prof. I don’t think you want to, I think you mistakenly did so. But you did so nevertheless.
Dustin, thanks for all of the random info on Rodney King. Considering I’m not even the one who originally brought him up and was only responding to someone else’s remark, I now sit here wondering if I could care any less. Regardless of what the man did before his beating, the beating was the issue. I am not the judge, jury or executioner and neither are you. I, along with the rest of the country, simply responded to what was shown on video, which added up to a whole lot of ass whoopin’ far beyond the point of necessity to bring a man under control for arrest. Please post below how you think that this was justified and how all police should now be allowed to decide who gets beat down and who doesn’t. One more thing, out of everything written, this was all you could find to bitch about?
Damn right man,
It sucks being a White Male age 18 to 35 in America, no matter what you do you’re a racist; even though you keep getting passed over for jobs because you’re not a minority
DA MAN wrote: “I would like to see these statistics, and the dates they were published. When AA was instituted, there most likely was major bias. But that was YEARS ago. This is now, not then.”
-Gee, I posted the links to all of the statistics. Please tell me that you at least read my posts before you tried to attack them. That isn‘t stereotypical at all now is it?
DA MAN wrote: “If you wish to go that route, then you must also acknowledge that a majority of the prison population of this fine nation is black, and what it leads one to believe given that fact.”
-It should lead you to believe that there is a whole lot of bias going around when it comes to convicting blacks for crimes over the convictions of other races. Oh, that’s right, there just couldn’t be any of that on jury panels that consist of mostly “majority” influence. What was I thinking? Would you really like to get into the poor educational conditions that many of these kids are being raised in? My parents are both teachers and I have stories that would make you cry, if you are human. I have never understood how you can take a entire race, throw them out of slavery, prevent them from getting jobs that allow them to be successful (except for a rare few) for nearly a century, come up with the statistics I provided earlier as far as the differences in wages and positions, and then say, “look, why aren‘t they prospering like those other immigrants are?!” Damn, doesn‘t that just boost a flame of responses?
DA MAN wrote: “Don’t act like just cuz you are black your life was any harder than anyone elses. You don’t know that. You seem to be doing pretty well for yourself. The self-pity is not a very appealing quality, prof. You are in the medical field, and evidently succeeding. That doesn’t sound like ‘the man’ has been holding you down to me. You are very presumptuous, prof. Prejudicial, if you will…. “
-I consider myself blessed and I fail to see any self pity simply because I am voicing my opinion on a thread that began basically with “why are these black people coming up with magazines for themselves, does this piss anyone else off?”. I worked hard and dealt with my responsibilities, in part, because I had very strong support from my parents. Everyone has their own struggle and nothing I have came easy. Hell, it is still not easy because I am not done yet, but not everyone has to deal with being judged a criminal or negative based on skin color. Mind you, no one guesses I have any education upon seeing me. Mostly what I get is, “do you box?” I do not believe that racism is to a point in this country where it can hold you back if you want it bad enough and have the talent to achieve it. I have accepted the fact that I have to work harder than those around me simply to get to the same finish line. This is a lesson that not everyone has been taught. One more thing, the poster that began this thread is shouting for self pity along with anyone who is complaining that they are now the “white oppressed”. Why not accuse them of the same?
DA MAN wrote: “I will admit that Rodney was horrible. No matter if he was hopped up or not, resisted arrest or not. But that does not in any way shape or form make what happened to the white guy right or justified. Two wrongs STILL don’t make a right. You are educated, you should know this. Rioting in the streets, throwing hissy fits like little children, and nearly killing an innocent man is no way to send a good message about your race. . Do you believe in an eye for an eye? Because that is what it seems you are eluding to. –
-That has got to be the most arrogant argument I have ever heard. You are talking about a group of people who didn’t have anything and had still been dealing with racism, a racism that is just now beginning to dissipate (considering race mixed marriages actually used to be a big topic on talk shows years ago but now doesn’t even turn heads). I do not agree with burning and looting a community and I would not have been one of the people doing it, but I would be lying if I said I didn’t understand to some degree. The question asked earlier about why we are responding emotionally comes to mind. What happens if you hold every assault and every injustice inside without venting it? What happens when things get bad enough and no one is listening to what you have been screaming for the longest time? Oh, that’s right, you must have experienced all of that what with all of this persecution you go through on a daily basis because of how white you are.
DA MAN wrote: “Do you see where I am coming from? You are supporting a stereotype by your behavior. You seem to be behaving like the stereotypical ‘angry black man.’ “
-I am an angry black man in certain instances and unless you never show emotion, you are acting like an angry white man. Why the difference and what specifically is the stereotype for an angry black man and why is that so much more negative than being an angry white man?
DA MAN wrote: “And this just gives racists fuel for their fire, because you are playing the exact role they believed you would. Think for a second how your actions look. Accusations of white business men being racist, getting quite angered (it seems) at the view that perhaps racism is in fact on the decline and that just because a white man owns/runs a business that he isnt a racist. You are reinforcing a stereotype. And if you reinforce one sterotype, you also reinforce the idea that other preconceived notions (stereotypes) are indeed sound. You strengthened the views of any bigot. Don’t do that, prof. I don’t think you want to, I think you mistakenly did so. But you did so nevertheless. “
-Again, I provided the statistics to keep this a fair playing field without the insults you just threw at me. I gave you the info and you didn’t even read it before you wrote all of this. You are the one showing the stereotype. A man looking for truth would have done better research, huh?
Your welcome! I’m sure I’m the only one that knew about the whole situation. I hope I educated you. Prof, you may have not brought up King, but you did make the comment that that was the worst racial discrimination since the civil war, or something like that. Can’t remember your exact words. It was that statement that encouraged me to post. And actually I had made a couple posts before this. I had agreed or at least didn’t disagree with anything you said, hence no post. Then you had to bring up King. I didn’t really think I was “bitching” about, but I guess I was. I just replied because I thought it was dumb to even bring that situation up. Your “perceived” as an “angry black man” when you speak of things like this. I wasn’t really trying to justify his beating, I was just ticked because you had to throw a Rodney King comment in this discussion. He is an asshole and should be in prison. That’s how I “justified” it according to you. Then several thousand of his friends “retaliated” by sacking and burning their damn neighborhood. Smart. I have no remorse for King, mabye the cop should have only hit 10 times instead of 30. I’m already tired of talking about his stupid ass. If you want to reply and flame me, go for it. I won’t repsond unless it’s about something else worth debating. Mr. King isn’t. Sorry if I offended you. It wasn’t the purpose, I just didn’t agree, that’s all.
my basic gripe here is that it doesnt make sense. I am a white guy. Well blacks and people of other races say that they are ‘equal’ or just as good as us whites. I tend to believe that in the scheme of things we are rather balanced. Well if black women are as good looking as white women, why would black women need their own beauty pagent? or if black men are as smart as white men then why would black men need special scholarships. I understand financial issues, but black scholarships in essence say that a poor black man needs more help in school than a poor white man. The intentions are good but in practice you create a ‘special olympics’ of sorts for minorities saying that they are disadvantaged (as say a wheelchair bound person) to whites (olympians). This reaffirms a message that they need special treatment because they logically must be inferrior to us. sorry if someone already said this i skimmed the thread but it was too damn long.
As an innocent child-youth growing up in Australia, not knowing nor caring about social problems etc, etc I had to grow up being harrassed constantly by “Aboriginals”. Sorry if I ever uttered the words coon, nigger, Abo, black bastard, boong, nog, stinker, rooginie. The sheer number of these words, and the sniggers that accompany their utterance in the schoolyard simply means kids are cruel and will pick on anyone who is different, particularly those who separate themselves in a hostile manner from the group. Now Im older I scarcely hear of care about or feel racism except in the younger generations. A sign of growing up perhaps?
My country is full of Aboriginies trying to be Afro- Americans. I have two wankers sitting across drom me now who call a chemist a drugstore and lollies candy. There is no pride in this country. I hope we never become like you though. Concocting arguments such as this/these means we have too much time on our hands, or as you Seppos say, Get a life. A joke for you: What is the difference between Australia and Yoghurt? A: Yoghurt has its own culture! It seems the only people who appreciate our culture at all are American.
These are (some of) my experiences. If I offended anyone sorry, too bad, you probeably missed the point. I wont read this thread again anyway so flame away. I have better things to do.
I’ve been following this thread and have found it quite interesting to see the true nature of some of the regulars on this forum. There is nothing I can add to this topic that has not already been said and done so more articulately than I could have. For what it’s worth I think Prof X and Mufasa have done a fantastic job of arguing there side of the debate. They have supported there arguements with sound logic and rebuffed every point successfully in my opinion. In fact, Prof X has even changed a couple of my own previously held beliefs. Thanks for a great thread with some interesting and important things to think about.
They haven’t rebuffed all my points. There are other white kids around this country that grew up in the same manner as I. Had to deal wtih discrimination from other races. What did I ever do to any of them?? You know where I live in Northern California I’m the minority. Does it bother me, nope, not one bit. When it comes down to it people are people, no matter the color of skin. There are assholes in every race. It just comes across that the Prof. thinks that if you’re white, you’re automatically racist, or have so type of racial bias. Maybe I’m wrong and missed the “gist” of their (Prof&Mufasa)posts, but this is just what it sounds like.
I wanted to make another post because my last post was typed late last night in a rush. In doing so I digressed from the point I was trying to make. POINT A: King is one of thousands of scumbags walking the streets of our great nation. Wasting our tax dollars by being arrested, spending a night or two in jail, only to be out again repeating the process all over again. So when some cops tune him up, why should any law abiding citizen care. Whether he be black or white. I didn’t care then and I don’t know. Plain and simple. Were those cops wrong in beating him? Yes. If it seemed like a felt differently in previous posts, sorry I was being sarcastic. POINT B: I do not think police should be able to bonk people on the head just because they had a stressful day. I would however, like for them to be able to do their job without having to worry about being politically correct and the like, thus lose their job because they weren’t. That was what I wanted to get across. Hopefully you understand what I mean now.
dman wrote: " my basic gripe here is that it doesnt make sense. I am a white guy.
Well blacks and people of other races say that they are ‘equal’ or just
as good as us whites. I tend to believe that in the scheme of things we
are rather balanced. Well if black women are as good looking as white
women, why would black women need their own beauty pagent? or if
black men are as smart as white men then why would black men need
special scholarships."
-The real question is, why did white women need their own pageant for nearly 100 years before now. Does this mean that white women were esthetically inferior to black women for centuries? You are acting as if there was ever a level playing field. Why is it that you argue everything should be forgotten when it comes to the concerns of blacks, however, it is not seen as self pity when a white person claims they are being assaulted with racism on the job? Why the double standard?
Dustin A. wrote: " I wanted to make another post because my last post was typed late
last night in a rush. In doing so I digressed from the point I was trying
to make. POINT A: King is one of thousands of scumbags walking the
streets of our great nation. Wasting our tax dollars by being arrested,
spending a night or two in jail, only to be out again repeating the
process all over again. So when some cops tune him up, why should
any law abiding citizen care."
-Unless you believe that this same rule applies to all people, including whites and that as a police officer, I could judge you to be a “scumbag” simply because of my opinion of you (mind you he is being arrested so that he can be processed in court because all people are innocent until proven guilty), then you have no point. What is the point in having a court system if the law is in the hands of the police officer? This only makes sense to you because you are referring to this particular man as “other” than yourself. Would the same rules apply if I came up on you and judged you to be a waste of space? Unless you were testing Rodney King at the time of his arrest for blood levels of toxins, you did not know that he was on drugs until his court proceedings. According to you, there should be no court system and all judgment should be carried out strictly on personal bias and opinion. If that makes sense to you, you have problems and you need to get them fixed.
James, where did you get that Prof X feels all whites are racist. I’m sure he doesn’t need me to defend him, but I never got that impression from reading any of his posts. I think what he is trying to get across is that institutionalized racism throughout American society (government, education, business, ect.) has been a fact of life since the beginning of nationhood and is still alive and well. Yes progress has been made but to believe that minorities are now on a level playing field is truly naive. If you don’t think so take a trip to an inner city school and have a look at the dilapitated conditions and outdated textbooks.