[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
I don’t know why everybody bashes Tim Sylvia, he never talks trashes to anybody. Maybe just because he looks lanky and fight a safe game plan, but hey the guy was a UFC champ.[/quote]
For real. He’s a bit of a goob, but he’s a BIG dude with legit skills. People sell him short a lot. Hell, I think he sells himself short sometimes. He’s pretty talented though.[/quote]
“bit of a goob” He’s a total goob. But he does have some skills, so I gotta give him some credit. I loved the way Fedor went right through him, like a hot knife through butter. He is such a non-athletic, ugly, graceless fighter. But he does match-up awkwardly in his favor against many fighters. Congrats, Timmy, on whippin’ the worlds strongest man!
Supposedly he’s fighting Pedro Rizzo soon. This is a much better indicator washed up fighter against possibly washed up fighter. If Tim loses he’s pretty much done.
[quote]drewh wrote:
But but I thought strongman training was great for mma conditioning all the articles say it is.[/quote]
Now here is that double edge blade.
a talented fighter, who has a decent level of skill, and a decent base of cardio and GPP
can really benefit from a well laid out strength and conditioning work
the same for a an athletic person who is already strong fast etc
isnt true
without knocking the strength athlete its easier to improve athletic performance
with someone already skilled then it is to teach a strong powerful person knew skills
in the same amount of time.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Don’t know about that. Lesnar may have a little less muscle than Pudz, yet more weight, and appears to have a fantastic gas tank for a HW. Carwin is said to have cardio to last rounds (never seen).
[/quote]
Pretty sure that Lesnar is taller and lighter than Pudz. He also has relatively skinny legs compared to Mariusz and isn’t as lean.
Mariusz came in at 273. Lesnar is taller, ‘fatter’, but heavier (10 to 20lbs). He likely has less muscle (duh) but it’s comparable at this point.
If the Lesnar/Carwin fight lasts past two rounds, we’ll start to get a good picture of whether or not carrying that much muscle and having a good gas tank is possible.
[quote]drewh wrote:
But but I thought strongman training was great for mma conditioning all the articles say it is.[/quote]
Now here is that double edge blade.
a talented fighter, who has a decent level of skill, and a decent base of cardio and GPP
can really benefit from a well laid out strength and conditioning work
the same for a an athletic person who is already strong fast etc
isnt true
without knocking the strength athlete its easier to improve athletic performance
with someone already skilled then it is to teach a strong powerful person knew skills
in the same amount of time.[/quote]
I think drew meant that sarcastically, but your post is pretty true.
Another thing to consider is that MMA guys don’t train like strongmen, they do strongman training, and then some (sprints, shark-bait, rounds, etc). Strongmen like Pudz need just enough conditioning to complete their events. This conditioning is nothing to laugh at (pulling a fucking truck for a minute needs some serious conditioning) but its very different from what an MMA fighter needs.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
i mean cmon guys, i know it was tim sylvia and no one likes to see him win, but could this really have gone any other way?[/quote]
Remember Ray Mercer? Hell remember Fedor? Sylvia is somewhat of a mixed bag. He tends to start slow; Couture, Fedor, Arlovski, Mercer. All of them tagged him inside of a minute. I think people figured Pudz could have done the same, seeing how he expends most of his energy inside of 2 or 3 minutes. Unfortunately for him, he’s a pretty bad striker. For what it’s worth he was able to muscle in a takedown in the first, so kudos to him.
[quote]drewh wrote:
But but I thought strongman training was great for mma conditioning all the articles say it is.[/quote]
Now here is that double edge blade.
a talented fighter, who has a decent level of skill, and a decent base of cardio and GPP
can really benefit from a well laid out strength and conditioning work
the same for a an athletic person who is already strong fast etc
isnt true
without knocking the strength athlete its easier to improve athletic performance
with someone already skilled then it is to teach a strong powerful person knew skills
in the same amount of time.[/quote]
I think drew meant that sarcastically, but your post is pretty true.
Another thing to consider is that MMA guys don’t train like strongmen, they do strongman training, and then some (sprints, shark-bait, rounds, etc). Strongmen like Pudz need just enough conditioning to complete their events. This conditioning is nothing to laugh at (pulling a fucking truck for a minute needs some serious conditioning) but its very different from what an MMA fighter needs.[/quote]
It was. I’ve always found it odd mma fighters feel the need to train so differently compared to other sports though.
Yeah, there are some crazy workouts out there when it comes to straight up conditioning. Good example would be the shit Lesnar and Sherk do in Minnesota (caveman workout?). Or Penn with that loony catching a ball on a bosu shit (training the nervous system? Color me skeptical).
On the other hand, there are guys that train pretty conventional. The stuff Chaimberg does with his guys for one, a few fancy pieces of equipment (that slide thing, TRX), but most of it is pretty simple push/pull work on different planes. Belcher, Jim Miller, Shogun all have videos out there of them squatting/deadlifting.
Lots of fighters have bad S & C coaches I’ll agree to that.
no need to invent the wheel,
not everything we see hear or read is reality with how fighters train.
its always a snap shot of training.
and if any of you have trained more then casually , more then 30 hours a week,
you’d like to mix it up too.
how much rope you can jump, sprints you can do road work, sparring it gets old.
real old fast.
go train 3x a day for an hour , hard. and tell me you are not board to tears after a week.
as for things not being ‘traditional’
outline for us a program that would work for most fighters.
this board is full of people with zero training and plenty to say.
most athletes are successful in spite of their training not because of it
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Don’t know about that. Lesnar may have a little less muscle than Pudz, yet more weight, and appears to have a fantastic gas tank for a HW. Carwin is said to have cardio to last rounds (never seen).
[/quote]
Pretty sure that Lesnar is taller and lighter than Pudz. He also has relatively skinny legs compared to Mariusz and isn’t as lean.
Mariusz came in at 273. Lesnar is taller, ‘fatter’, but heavier (10 to 20lbs). He likely has less muscle (duh) but it’s comparable at this point.
If the Lesnar/Carwin fight lasts past two rounds, we’ll start to get a good picture of whether or not carrying that much muscle and having a good gas tank is possible.
[/quote]
Huh, guess Mariusz has been coming down in weight then. I stand corrected.
I honestly don’t think that someone like Lesnar/Carwin/Mariusz is ever going to have the gas tank of someone like Couture, Fedor, or any of the other smaller HW’s, simply due to the amount of mass they have to move around. Same reason why the lightweights can set and maintain a much much higher pace than say the LHW’s. There are always tradeoffs.
But, I do think that Lesnar/Carwin have enough cardio/skill that, combined with their massive size and power they could hang with other smaller HW’s into the later rounds. Keep in mind that the stronger a person is, the less effort they must exert to produce the same amount of force (i.e. if my max bench was 135, I’d have to really struggle to bench 130, thus sapping lots of my energy, but if my max was 500, I could bench 135 till the cows came home). Combine that with the ability to relax and good technique and it should be possible for them to last a full 5 rounds.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
Lots of fighters have bad S & C coaches I’ll agree to that.
no need to invent the wheel,
not everything we see hear or read is reality with how fighters train.
its always a snap shot of training.
and if any of you have trained more then casually , more then 30 hours a week,
you’d like to mix it up too.
how much rope you can jump, sprints you can do road work, sparring it gets old.
real old fast.
go train 3x a day for an hour , hard. and tell me you are not board to tears after a week.
as for things not being ‘traditional’
outline for us a program that would work for most fighters.
this board is full of people with zero training and plenty to say.
most athletes are successful in spite of their training not because of it[/quote]
BS, most of these athletes those that kind of training because they main focus are on sparring, technique, etc. Then they hire someone GPP coach who put all those worthless stuff just for the sake of conditioning. Well guess what? you get your gas tank sparring not doing movements on the weight room that mimic sparring.
Just look at Fedor training regiment and compare to those who do a lot of those fancy stuff.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
i mean cmon guys, i know it was tim sylvia and no one likes to see him win, but could this really have gone any other way?[/quote]
Remember Ray Mercer? Hell remember Fedor? Sylvia is somewhat of a mixed bag. He tends to start slow; Couture, Fedor, Arlovski, Mercer. All of them tagged him inside of a minute. I think people figured Pudz could have done the same, seeing how he expends most of his energy inside of 2 or 3 minutes. Unfortunately for him, he’s a pretty bad striker. For what it’s worth he was able to muscle in a takedown in the first, so kudos to him.[/quote]
did you use a former hw champion boxer and the best hw mma fighter of all time as the baseline for how sylvia would perform against a guy with very little in the way of actual fight-time(ring, practice or otherwise)?
[quote]slimjim wrote:
i mean cmon guys, i know it was tim sylvia and no one likes to see him win, but could this really have gone any other way?[/quote]
Remember Ray Mercer? Hell remember Fedor? Sylvia is somewhat of a mixed bag. He tends to start slow; Couture, Fedor, Arlovski, Mercer. All of them tagged him inside of a minute. I think people figured Pudz could have done the same, seeing how he expends most of his energy inside of 2 or 3 minutes. Unfortunately for him, he’s a pretty bad striker. For what it’s worth he was able to muscle in a takedown in the first, so kudos to him.[/quote]
did you use a former hw champion boxer and the best hw mma fighter of all time as the baseline for how sylvia would perform against a guy with very little in the way of actual fight-time(ring, practice or otherwise)?[/quote]
Fuck no, lol. I expected Sylvia to win by brutal TKO. The fact that the fight ended like it did made me a little disappointed.
That doesn’t mean I didn’t think Pudz was capable of pulling off an upset with the power he had. Hell he had Tim in a couple of rough spots in the first minute.
Yes, I’ll be honest, they have nothing to do with one another. If Lance armstrong wanted MMA cardio, he would need to train for it. Just like an ELITE MMA fighter would have to train his ass off to keep up in a triathlon.
Someone mentioned the Diaz bro’s… They excel at both because they train both.
And just in case some schmuck wants to intervene with nonsense, of course prior conditioning at either end would help at the other. Much like Lance would lose in a marathon to an elite marathon runner, but would spank him in cycling. It’s called, specificity.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
That doesn’t mean I didn’t think Pudz was capable of pulling off an upset with the power he had. [/quote]
To be honest, at no point in the fight did he seem like a strongman.
He had tremendous difficulty lifting Sylvia, of all things. It seemed as though all that ridiculous strength was useless.
I think your average person watching that would have no idea of the retarded amount of weight Pudz usually plays with.
Yes, I’ll be honest, they have nothing to do with one another. If Lance armstrong wanted MMA cardio, he would need to train for it. Just like an ELITE MMA fighter would have to train his ass off to keep up in a triathlon.
Someone mentioned the Diaz bro’s… They excel at both because they train both.
And just in case some schmuck wants to intervene with nonsense, of course prior conditioning at either end would help at the other. Much like Lance would lose in a marathon to an elite marathon runner, but would spank him in cycling. It’s called, specificity.[/quote]
this has been proved already by Lance himself, so please stop the bullshit whoever talked about triathlon giving the gas tank to mma fighters
there is a pic of him almost puking after trying to run an Marathon. just google it.
Yes, I’ll be honest, they have nothing to do with one another. If Lance armstrong wanted MMA cardio, he would need to train for it. Just like an ELITE MMA fighter would have to train his ass off to keep up in a triathlon.
Someone mentioned the Diaz bro’s… They excel at both because they train both.
And just in case some schmuck wants to intervene with nonsense, of course prior conditioning at either end would help at the other. Much like Lance would lose in a marathon to an elite marathon runner, but would spank him in cycling. It’s called, specificity.[/quote]
this has been proved already by Lance himself, so please stop the bullshit whoever talked about triathlon giving the gas tank to mma fighters
there is a pic of him almost puking after trying to run an Marathon. just google it.[/quote]
No one said it would give a gas tank, you fucking retard.
What was said was that it helps.
During the Tour de France, biking teams are not allowed (by their couch) to stand, walk or run, unless necessary.
Fyi, Lance Armstrong finished in the middle, so that’s not that bad for a guy who spent the majority of his professional athletic career biking.
