[quote]cadav wrote:
TONEdef wrote:
Oh to be young and immortal…
i’m not immortal… so why bother for the indevitable?
[/quote]
Sto scherzando soltanto il mio amico;-D
Tone
[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
I would just like to add that nobody really has thought of the risks of combining these powerfull hormones related to cellular aging, and the developement/ changing of any malignancies/or benign tumors you may have lurking somewhere in your body that you don’t know about yet.
It seems like a lot to risk.
You need to do some research.
Nobody has “really thought” about this? It’s common medical practice to combine T4 and GH in growth retarted children, as well as patients with other problems. It’s a very common practice, and has not only been well documented, it’s been well researched.
For everyone here who has read the article I wrote (notably, I wrote it in co-operation with a Doctor, who is listed as an author of the piece along with me)- read it, and check all the references. You’ll find P22’s comments above to be absurdly and grossly misinformed.
[/quote]
we are not growth retarded children. Our epipheseal plates have closed, and my comments are not absurd at all. It is one thing to do HRT for children with that condition, what you propose is a completely different tx. Even responsible physicians have to disclose the risks of thier therapy, and there are risks to all therapies - even conventionally accepted practices.
I don’t care what physician you wrote the article with - there are lots of Pons and Flieschmans out there to collaborate with - untill I see your work published in a reputable medical journal, all you are is creative writing.
[quote]TONEdef wrote:
Sto scherzando soltanto il mio amico;-D
Tone[/quote]
i know my friend
the right phare however should be:
“sto soltando scherzando, amico”
or if you want to add the “my”:
“sto soltando scherzando, amico mio”
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
I don’t care what physician you wrote the article with - there are lots of Pons and Flieschmans out there to collaborate with - untill I see your work published in a reputable medical journal, all you are is creative writing.[/quote]
i can see your point.
but which is the difference with AAS cycle? and insulin? and clen? and efe? and all the other “stuff”?
[quote]cadav wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
I don’t care what physician you wrote the article with - there are lots of Pons and Flieschmans out there to collaborate with - untill I see your work published in a reputable medical journal, all you are is creative writing.
I can see your point.
but which is the difference with AAS cycle? and insulin? and clen? and efe? and all the other “stuff”?
[/quote]
If you do your research you will find that the further you delve beyond just plain aas, the higher your health risks rise.
I tend to limit my use of anabolics to just AAS, I will use some Clen, but in low doses, and only when contest dieting for short periods of time - that’s like 2 weeks out of a year.
Growth hormones and Insulin are out of bounds for me. The GH because of it’s Cancer risks, along with that the distended belly, tortured veins, enlarged tounge, jaw and face, and small bones - i.e. metocarples, (basically acromeggally) is not the look I am trying to achieve. Not to mention the complications internally you’ll suffer later on in life on account of the side effects of acromeggally.
The insulin, can not only kill you the first time you use it, but it can set you up for becomming an Insulin dependant, or Niddm later on in life - which vastly raises your risks for coronary heart disease, never mind all the other vascular diseases associated with arteriosclerosis - i.e Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, Peripheral Vascular disease - both venous and arterial, and of course all these Cardiovascular disease lead to secondary problems such as kidney failure, portal htn - i.e. liver failure, basically you name it this is the f’n gateway to a lot of disease and suffering later on in life that you and your loved ones may have to bear, all for a few extra pounds of muscle now.
Take it from me and check out my pics too - you don’t have to use this crap to develop a quality physique. Spend your time researching your training, and nutritional intake. Learn when to train, when not to train and how to train, how to eat, when to eat and what, and how much.
Aas cycling is fairly simple, in comparison to the above topic.
GH and all this other crap that this poster pedals, though interesting to know about is not neccessary, and only will lead you down the wrong path. Bodybuilding is about building a body, -living a healthy lifestyle not digging your grave. That my freind, is a whole other lifestyle - a destructive lifestyle, and I can compare it a lot to something like anorexia - when you are willing to risk even you life, and your future, just for a few extra pounds of muscle.
[quote]cadav wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
in december 05 my father get a throat cancer. it was a really bad news… i think you can understand. But my father was an heavy smocker and he say “well, i’m waiting for that…”
by now (for luck or god… i dont bother) the cancer was defeated by the radio and chem cycle.
i dont smoke, i dont drink.However in the middle of may 03 i had a a big car “crash” (my friend, whom driving feel asleep…) i lose the use of one eye. the only one i have full working. I was completely blind for 2-3 months than slowly start to see a little better. In the middle i’ve lost my girl… thinks that happens…
i have learn just 1 little stupid think: don’t worry. Life is a river… it flow on it’s way… you can choose how to travel the river. But the direction where you’ll go is a choice of the river only…
i know, this my way of living… i dont suggest to other neither want that other understand… but… well i think that way is better than other for me.
[/quote]
Your a little wrong my friend, life is a river, but you can choose which channel to paddle down - you can choose to risk the rapids or take the portage, you may not know what lies a head sometime, but there are definite consequences to your decisons.
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
If you do your research you will find that the further you delve beyond just plain aas, the higher your health risks rise.
[/quote]
ok, but, well… which risk is “to much”?
using AAS is already a potential risk for health. I mean… is hard to see AAS as an health-wise choice…
yes, i know from your prev posts in this forum. but one week of clen “should” be enough if you have "some problem lurking "… do you understand what i mean?
i think that the border line is just matter of personal point of view…
the effects of GH you are talking about are for “large” use of it. You can achive nice results with a smaller dose.
you are talking of the same class of problem you can achive with every miss-used enanhing drugs. From efe to test and other…
[quote]
Take it from me and check out my pics too - you don’t have to use this crap to develop a quality physique. Spend your time researching your training, and nutritional intake. Learn when to train, when not to train and how to train, how to eat, when to eat and what, and how much. [/quote]
please 
don’t think i’m the last of the stupidest
i know i can achive big results without drugs. but it is plain simple:
i can get better, bigger results and faster using (wisely) that drugs.
personally i discover “late” the training passion… and i want to “optimize” my effords.
i’m training as natural for 3 years. i spent last year reseraching. and i have choice to step in the “un-natural” training taking advantage of the drugs that can help me reducing bf.
why? simply because is where i get my biggest problem. i have no problem to become stronger, or to become bigger (lean mass i mean). where i’m weak is in reducing BF… so why not(im not looking for magic… but for help… im dieting and hard training as usually, more than usually)?
ehm… if you start splitting “necessary” from “not necessary”… weell… AAS shoul fall in the 2nd category…
body building, for me, is not just building a healthier body. it is more like win my limits… it is research, it is devotion, it is risk, and a lot of other stuff…
however i can understand what you mean.
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
Your a little wrong my friend, life is a river, but you can choose which channel to paddle down - you can choose to risk the rapids or take the portage, you may not know what lies a head sometime, but there are definite consequences to your decisons.[/quote]
sure… but every river take you to the sea… every channels take you there…
i dont know the right words in english (sorry) but i think it should sound something like:
“it is better a day as a lion that hundreds days as a sheep”
soon or later i have to die…
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
I don’t care what physician you wrote the article with - there are lots of Pons and Flieschmans out there to collaborate with - .[/quote]
Right. When you slam down the “I’m a doctor, so I know my shit” card, you’re credible. But when a doctor agrees with me, it doesn’t matter, blah blah blah.
I thought you guys took the Hippocratic oath, not the Hypocrite’s oath?
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
untill I see your work published in a reputable medical journal, all you are is creative writing.[/quote]
Can you direct me to a peer reviewed journal your body of work can be found in?
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
untill I see your work published in a reputable medical journal, all you are is creative writing.[/quote]
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
life is a river, but you can choose which channel to paddle down - you can choose to risk the rapids or take the portage, you may not know what lies a head sometime, .[/quote]
Yes. Creative writing. What a beautiful example.
AR,
What makes you the expert??? Yes you wrote a book. Some like it some don’t. Who gives a shit?
Who is the expert? To me its the guy that has run the cycle and knows…Truly knows. Its the guy that posts information and answers every question because hes helpful. If that guy is helpful and overtime then comes trust. I guess you could say he becomes a “bro”, “brobot” or what ever the fuck you want to call it this week.
It is not the MF that argues with everyone because they don’t agree with that person that truly knows.
I do have to give you one thing though, you write real pretty.
JW
[quote]JWpushheavy wrote:
AR,
What makes you the expert??? Yes you wrote a book. Some like it some don’t. Who gives a shit?
Who is the expert? To me its the guy that has run the cycle and knows…Truly knows. Its the guy that posts information and answers every question because hes helpful. If that guy is helpful and overtime then comes trust. I guess you could say he becomes a “bro”, “brobot” or what ever the fuck you want to call it this week.
It is not the MF that argues with everyone because they don’t agree with that person that truly knows.
I do have to give you one thing though, you write real pretty.
JW[/quote]
I wrote a book.
People on the boards write little posts.
See the difference?
One has credibility (a book, in the real world, carried in Barnes & Noble) and the other doesn’t (posting where anyone can say whatever they want, on terrible message boards, like the ones you said you like- you know…? the ones with the mediocre staff’s?)
Hit the power button on your computer. Ok? When that light goes out, so does every ounce of credibility that every mod/admin/Vet/Bro on the internet has.
Thats the difference. I am credible in the real world, not just the internet.
[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
JWpushheavy wrote:
AR,
What makes you the expert??? Yes you wrote a book. Some like it some don’t. Who gives a shit?
Who is the expert? To me its the guy that has run the cycle and knows…Truly knows. Its the guy that posts information and answers every question because hes helpful. If that guy is helpful and overtime then comes trust. I guess you could say he becomes a “bro”, “brobot” or what ever the fuck you want to call it this week.
It is not the MF that argues with everyone because they don’t agree with that person that truly knows.
I do have to give you one thing though, you write real pretty.
JW
I wrote a book.
People on the boards write little posts.
See the difference?
One has credibility (a book, in the real world, carried in Barnes & Noble) and the other doesn’t (posting where anyone can say whatever they want, on terrible message boards, like the ones you said you like- you know…? the ones with the mediocre staff’s?)
Hit the power button on your computer. Ok? When that light goes out, so does every ounce of credibility that every mod/admin/Vet/Bro on the internet has.
Thats the difference. I am credible in the real world, not just the internet.[/quote]
AR,
You aren’t selling me here.
Yes you wrote a book…Good for you make a dime. But I don’t know you just like the guy that is posting and obviously helping others make decisions based on his experience.
Trust, its all about trust.
Do you feel me now? Does any of this remotely make any sense to you?
My argument is that yes you know your shit…your research shows and I and others do agree with you on many points.
BUT, is it anymore credible than that “Bro” that I trust? Is it?
Just because he didn’t write that book does that make him inferior to the guy the wrote the book? What about the 5, 6 years that he has been cycling?
In my book that 5, 6 years is “real world”.
JW
[quote]JWpushheavy wrote:
You aren’t selling me here.
Yes you wrote a book…Good for you make a dime. But I don’t know you just like the guy that is posting and obviously helping others make decisions based on his experience.
Trust, its all about trust.
Do you feel me now? Does any of this remotely make any sense to you?
My argument is that yes you know your shit…your research shows and I and others do agree with you on many points.
BUT, is it anymore credible than that “Bro” that I trust? Is it?
Just because he didn’t write that book does that make him inferior to the guy the wrote the book? What about the 5, 6 years that he has been cycling?
In my book that 5, 6 years is “real world”.
JW
[/quote]
Ok. So to forum rats everywhere, GoldenBro69 is as credible as me. Great. To The owners of all the boards that matter, the case is different.
Anabolex, Meso, T-Nation, Elitefitness, M&M, and Steroid.com have never all shared a single steroid author, who has had an article on each of their main pages simultaneously.
Oh…except for me.
Even on the 'net, those who own and operate the bigest boards, all find me to be more credible than the “SwoleBro420” types of guys.
I don’t respect the self proclaimed gurus of the internet. Their opinions and such hold no sway with me, and clearly don’t hold any weight on any of the biggest boards on the net, either. Thats why they have to mod on 50 different boards, with 2k members each, of which 1,999 members are the same. It’s a feeble attempt to get credibility without ever really accomplishing anything, and just posting on “anything goes” message boards- where a “hey bro” post makes you a “good bro”…which I have no time for, and no respect for.
It rates a 9.5 on my Who-gives-A-Fuck-O-Meter.
Even on the 'net, the guys who you are saying are knowledgable, aren’t really considered so, by anyone who owns a decent board. And they are certainly not considered anything by the general (non-internetAAS-Forum-geek) public.
In terms of real credibility, they rate somewhere between people who post on “MySpace” and people who sign up on E-Harmony…
[quote]JWpushheavy wrote:
What makes you the expert??? Yes you wrote a book. Some like it some don’t. Who gives a shit?
JW[/quote]
Look at it like this:
Comparing internet geeks who pretend to be experts and bullshit about steroids in their spare time, is like comparing someone who actually gets laid in the real world, to dorks who are online-studs & try to get laid off MySpace and E-harmony.
If they could actually do it in real life, they wouldn’t give a fuck about all this online bullshit.
I can do it in real life, so I wrote a book that got published about it.
If the majority of “internet steroid experts” could get published, (*or produced anything of merit) they would.
Just like the majority of MySpace/E-Harmony dorks who are trying to get laid off a website, would actually be out getting laid if they could.
[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
JWpushheavy wrote:
What makes you the expert??? Yes you wrote a book. Some like it some don’t. Who gives a shit?
JW
Look at it like this:
Comparing internet geeks who pretend to be experts and bullshit about steroids in their spare time, is like comparing someone who actually gets laid in the real world, to dorks who are online-studs & try to get laid off MySpace and E-harmony.
If they could actually do it in real life, they wouldn’t give a fuck about all this online bullshit.
I can do it in real life, so I wrote a book that got published about it.
If the majority of “internet steroid experts” could get published, (*or produced anything of merit) they would.
Just like the majority of MySpace/E-Harmony dorks who are trying to get laid off a website, would actually be out getting laid if they could.
[/quote]
Your point is taken Mr. Roberts.
But you act as though everyone is a self proclaimed expert. That is not the case. Most are pretty humble. Yes maybe there are a few that know their shit and brag. Its everywhere on every board.
But I’m thinking of that humble guy.
Maybe they don’t really care about publishing a book about this subject matter. They have lives to live, work, pay bills, just like the next guy and don’t have the time to research for years and play a professional sport.
Do you get my drift?
One more question and I will leave you to your work:
Do you think that anyone on this and other boards that are here when they get time, don’t have a book published, are considered by many, many people to have credible knowledge of this subject matter give good advice?
It has been interesting to say the least.
JW
Just a question related to the original post about optimizing thyroid output for fat burning. For the first time in my life I’m having trouble cutting for summer not sure why(possibly stress, lack of sleep constantly, etc) but I started taking some old T2. Not only did I not get results but I then upped the dose and feel like I’m actually retaining more abdominal fat. Is this even possible? I got desperate and added in some T3 (25mcg daily), that I was able to get a hold of and I actually feel like I’m getting fatter. Anyone have a clue what’s going on? Is this even possible? Just a little background on my diet. Always did great on the Body Opus diet. This time around the no carb thing is not working at all.
[quote]as wrote:
Just a question related to the original post about optimizing thyroid output for fat burning. For the first time in my life I’m having trouble cutting for summer not sure why(possibly stress, lack of sleep constantly, etc) but I started taking some old T2. Not only did I not get results but I then upped the dose and feel like I’m actually retaining more abdominal fat. Is this even possible? I got desperate and added in some T3 (25mcg daily), that I was able to get a hold of and I actually feel like I’m getting fatter. Anyone have a clue what’s going on? Is this even possible? Just a little background on my diet. Always did great on the Body Opus diet. This time around the no carb thing is not working at all.[/quote]
post your diet along with your stats and I’ll see if i can help out. Typically I don’t have a problem myself shedding weight without the help of fat burners. I find the less depedant I am on them, the healthier my metabolism remains in the long run. That thread on ‘metabolic damage’ has some really good points. It is better IMO not to cut out all carbs, especially if you are not doing a show.
To Ar,just so you know I am not a DR. I am a RNBN.
And I am sorry but unlike you, who I discern a lot of ‘ego’ in your tone, I have absolutely no care for ‘status’ e.t.c. I am just a Bro who cares enough to help other’s out. My medical background and knowledge, and growing experience is a definte asset, of course. And due to that fact, I am compelled to let my fellow brothers see both sides of the coin.
Yes we all want to improve our physiques, but knowing that there are risks involved, both long term and short term, needs to be addressed. I don’t believe you do that too well.
Put it this way, the amounts of GH and insulin needed to achieve results, will leave you with the side effects I have listed. If you use less, all you are doing is replacing hormone your body would otherwise secrete, and with insulin at least, still leaving yourself at risk for diabetes in the future.
The risks of AAS are much less. Steroids bind with the AR and block cortisol. Yes, they can contribute to arterialsclerosis, as some steroids, along with aromatase inhibitors do negatively effect cholesterol levels, which can inturn cause build up of plaque. This of couse can be minimized by diet, and ancillaries.
AAS does not cause cancer, and never has been shown to speed up the growth of cancer cells, or the speed of cell division, as some of these other hormones do.
Now even with the use of AAS or any other growth agents realize it will take you YEARS! to develop a quality physique.
I have been training a long time, and for me a gain of 10 lbs in one year of muscle is a good year. Patience and consistency is key. As I have said there is no magic pill.
As for dieting, It is a gradual process. Set a goal to loose about 2 lbs of fat a week. This is very achieveable, and is the best way to proceed. You don’t need to starve yourself and you don’t need to resort to using fat burners - ie. thermogenics or thyroid hormone.
If you do decide to, first learn to loose the weight naturally, then add in the 'helper’s as icing on the cake. Don’t use drugs, as being the ‘difference maker’ from achieving your goals or failing.
As for your philosophy - we could debate back and forth forever lol!
[quote]JWpushheavy wrote:
AR,
What makes you the expert??? Yes you wrote a book. Some like it some don’t. Who gives a shit?
[/quote]
have you read the book?
it is really intresting, full of well documented information. the bibliografy is rich and a lot of topics are reviewed in deep yet simple form.
i don’t think AR need my defence, but i need to say that he know what he’s talking about. he doesn’t talk of thinks he doesn’t know…