[quote]Hyena wrote:
It is selfish. [/quote]
Look at your avatar.
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
[quote]Hyena wrote:
The BEST people in this world are the ones who NEVER give up, even when faced with insurmountable odds.[/quote]
Suppose you have motor neurone disease, which is incurable and terminal, and all you have to look forward to is a slow, undignified death, with all your loved ones watching you waste away as it strips you of everything. Do you still think suicide is wrong then?[/quote]
It’s never “wrong”. Who am I to hold others to my own moral standards. The question is, does it make you a coward, is it a waste, is it selfish?
If it’s the end of the road and you know it, I guess not. The thing is, sometimes even in the most extreme cases it isn’t the end of the road. People have killed themselves over money, or depression- not the end. My opinions concern them.
There’s a video out there called the “Last lecture” about some prof dying of cancer giving his students a lecture about life. The gist of it was, he’s pretty close to dying, but he’s going to make the most of his time alive. I’m not saying everyone with a terminal illness should adopt his viewpoint (how the fuck can I?), but the rest of us healthy folk could take notes from it.
So I don’t usually post, but as a social worker in mental health this caught my interest. Just some facts about suicide:
-Suicide is the 11th leading cause of death in the US
-Age groups at greatest risk are 15-24 and 65+
-Suicide rates for 10-14 year olds have doubled in the past 20 years
-Suicide is the third leading cause of death for adolescents, after accidents and homicides
-Males outnumber females in completed suicides 4:1, however ideation and attempts are more common in females (2-3X)
-GLBTQ youth are 2-3X more likely to commit suicide than their peers
-Firearms are the most common method for males, poisoning is the most common for females
-Suicide rates are highest in Native American and Alaska natives, followed by white males
-Children and adolescents who have had a family member die from suicide are 3x more likely to attempt suicide
-Individuals who have trauma history such as abuse or witnessing/experiencing domestic violence are at increased risk
-PTSD, Affective disorders, Bipolar disorder, Schizophrenia, Personality disorders, and OCD are all associated with suicide
-Substance abuse is incredibly correlated to suicide, in fact 75% of suicides have a combination of affective disorder and substance abuse
-Suicide often occurs due to a desire to die, suicidal capability, suicidal intent, and the lack of buffers/protective factors
-Risk factors to consider are social stressors, mental health issues, history of suicidal attempts, access to firearms, substance abuse, being of certain cultures/ethnicities, and family and trauma history
If you think someone is suicidal, ask that person very directly if they are. Call 1800-273-8255 or your local mental health crisis unit for assistance. Get help! For many, suicidal ideation manifests during difficult stages of peoples lives. These stages pass - they are temporary - but you must stay alive to allow this to happen.
Unfortunately, many think suicide is a choice people make. For many people, suicide is a response to all other alternative options being exhausted, and when no other choices can be identified or reasonably navigated.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And have any of you considered that people on here might have a loved one that commited suicide, all while having to hear what a coward this person might have been?
My close friend’s mother commited suicide. So did one of my acquaintance’s mother.
I have a close family member that suffers from extreme mental illness and has lived in a psychiatric hospital and group home for several years and will most likely not be living on his own for the rest of his life.
I used to work in two hospitals where I was the designated dietitian for rehab and psychiatric floors.
I have a close family member that spent time on Riker’s Island.
For all you WORLDY and WISE people: Did you ever stop to think of what the fucking world is really like or ponder if you’ve ever had first hand experience or observation of serious shit before you start using words like COWARD and SELFISH? Like realize what the fuck you’re talking about beyond “hardcore” T-bro shit and self help scripts?[/quote]
Hey Pricknyce, did you ever stop to think that some of us HAVE had loved ones attempt or commit suicide and still think it’s cowardly and selfish? I couldn’t care less how bad that makes you feel to hear that. And yes, there are exceptions (e.g., people who have mental illness). But many of the attempts, as someone with experience already pointed out, are pathetic ploys for attention.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]admbaum wrote:
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
[quote]nomorewar wrote:
contrary to what most people think, It takes really big balls to kill yourself. [/quote]
LOL. No it doesn’t. It takes bigger balls to face life and overcome its challenges.[/quote]
QFFUCKINGT
This shit makes me sick. I have no compassion for people that take the cowards way out. NONE. Spare me your bleeding heart. Life is tough and many people had it much worse and lived through it. I’ve known a few people that have done it and regretted that I didn’t do more to help them, but what can you do? Outside of holding them down and straight jacketing them, if they’re determined to do it, they’re gonna do it. Does it take more guts to run away or to take a stand?
[/quote]
x9000 xSuperSaiyan3
People who kill themselves are cowards. No it doesn’t take balls to kill yourself. It takes balls to get back up on your feet when life is taking a shit on you.
Every suicide story I’ve experienced or read about sounded pathetic. A friend of mine had a girlfriend that killed herself over a shitty social life. Another jumped out of his window because of debt. Some guy in the paper killed himself and his retarded kid because his business was failing.
You can throw around words like clinical depression and financial hopelessness but look: There are people in this world who wake everyday and work 18hrs or more over 2 or 3 jobs just to scrape by a living for their kids. There are people that sell their souls and time for peanuts to get by. I have seen this with my own eyes, and grew up close to it. Don’t tell me a bit of hardship should be enough to break a man.
Life sucks. But life is beautiful. If a man can’t see this and ends his, he is a weak fool, and a coward.[/quote]
More New Age, Self Help drivel that ignores indidivual circumstances and life for all people.
God, I love fitness forums - especially T-mag - where everyone is an expert on just about everything while holding no formal education or training or professional competence or EXTENSIVE LIFE experience in psychology, nutrition, social work, anthropology, sexuality, endocrinology, athletic training, and exercise physiology. It just gets better and better.
And it take a real T Brother to know da deal on da hardcore life.
What if I find particularly humorous is the constant whining that suicide is SELFISH when serious bodybuilding happens to be one of the most self absorbed/centered endeavors around. After all, spending hours working out, constantly preparing, and taking hundreds of photos of oneself for validation of others isn’t self absorbed/centered. Is it? [/quote]
the pot calling the kettle black…why does this come to mind after reading this? Oh yeah…everyone on the forum is an expert, gotcha…carry on.
FTR…I never called suicide selfish, I called it the cowards way out…cause that’s what cowards do, they run away from struggle.
In some cases it’s actually selfless, like in warfare.
I think that a lot of people who kill themselves don’t understand death. It’s not peace, like waking up on the weekend to a sunny spring morning, looking out at the green grass, the trees and listening to the birds. It doesn’t make you feel better afterwards, because you don’t feel anything. Nothing’s gotten better, nothing’s gotten worse. Your Universe has vanished, along with all your achievements, all the people you’ve met in your life, everything you’ve ever seen, done and experienced is gone. The miracle that was you, the person who managed to exist against all incomprehensible odds, has vanished in an instant.
I appreciate that some people are born into situations so dire that there is literally nothing that they could do to rectify it. But then there are others who are unable to see that their situation is brought on by their state of mind, something that is maleable and temporary. They are not aware that the way they choose to think alone can make themselves feel so bad.
For people who don’t seem to know… There’s a difference between attention whores/drama queens and genuine mental illness, with a lot of variations inbetween.
If you’ve ever had a loved one with the latter, I don’t think you would be so quick to say that they’re weak, looking for attention, etc. Their reality is REAL to them and rational thinking doesn’t exist.
I’ve been ‘lucky’ to be experienced in both drama queen/attention seeking and mentally ill suicide situations. The first scenario pissed me off, the second was an absolutely brutal experience that i’ll never forget. Both were with girlfriends.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
In some cases it’s actually selfless, like in warfare. [/quote]
What a brave man.
[quote]Mad HORSE wrote:
I’m not suicidal, nor have I ever been. But recently I’ve seen a lot of data on it. 10-12 year olds are killing themselves over bullying. I just read that the AF is in line to pass last years suicide rate. That’s a lot of people taking a permanent solution to temporary problems.
I’ve had my share of problems, especially over the last year, but I never thought about ending it. So I’m wondering, what actually drives people to kill themselves? Does anyone have any thoughts or insights?[/quote]
Its a sense of hopelessness. I was never suicidal, but I was bullied mercilessly in high school. Over all sorts of things, weight, religion, choice of music, just about anything you can imagine. I compensated differently and instead of moping, I was like the little dog barking at the german shepard. I got into fights alot, and eventually earned a reputation that I shouldnt be fucked with, but underneath all that, I was fucking miserable.
I feel like people have different ways of handling these problems. I was lucky because I had a group of like-minded friends as a support network, and a family that really cares. Some people don’t have that supporting cast to pick up the slack when they feel like they can’t keep pushing.
Suicide is NEVER the answer. This is from someone who has experienced really tough times, financially and medically, and has lost a friend to suicide this year.
Life is too precious to throw away. Everyone has life which is a gift. Ultimately It comes down to getting help for your situation.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And have any of you considered that people on here might have a loved one that commited suicide, all while having to hear what a coward this person might have been?
My close friend’s mother commited suicide. So did one of my acquaintance’s mother.
[/quote]
Mine too.
The more I see of responses like the ones in this thread and others in the past, the less I want to be associated with or participate on these forums.
Then I take a step back and realize that this is the internet. Home of the hardest of the hard core, smartest of the smart, and the most resilient keyboard warriors in history.
There is no need to school them on anything. They know it all, have done it all, and are true masters of their keyboard world.
Thats life in virtual reality. No need to bring the real world into it.
I rarely post, but had to respond to this thread. People who commit suicide are not in their right mind. It is a mental issue when one gets to the point that they believe that death is better than life. My father committed suicide when I was 17, and at 34 it still haunts me.
The guilt, unanswered questions, and legacy it leaves to the survivors is horrific. Is it cowardly? maybe, but everyone’s situation is different. Sometimes the pain that one is going through blinds them to other options, and the only way they see out is death. If you have a loved one that even mentions suicide, get them help.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And have any of you considered that people on here might have a loved one that commited suicide, all while having to hear what a coward this person might have been?
My close friend’s mother commited suicide. So did one of my acquaintance’s mother.
[/quote]
Mine too.
The more I see of responses like the ones in this thread and others in the past, the less I want to be associated with or participate on these forums.
Then I take a step back and realize that this is the internet. Home of the hardest of the hard core, smartest of the smart, and the most resilient keyboard warriors in history.
There is no need to school them on anything. They know it all, have done it all, and are true masters of their keyboard world.
Thats life in virtual reality. No need to bring the real world into it.
[/quote]
Exactly. You have to realise that, in a year’s time, most of these guys will have threads like “I did the right thing and avoided the fight so why do I feel like a pussy?”.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
[
But I like yours more. Only issue would be where to get dry ice.
[/quote]
Wal-Mart, by the butcher shop. Does no one here hunt?
[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And have any of you considered that people on here might have a loved one that commited suicide, all while having to hear what a coward this person might have been?
My close friend’s mother commited suicide. So did one of my acquaintance’s mother.
[/quote]
Mine too.
The more I see of responses like the ones in this thread and others in the past, the less I want to be associated with or participate on these forums.
Then I take a step back and realize that this is the internet. Home of the hardest of the hard core, smartest of the smart, and the most resilient keyboard warriors in history.
There is no need to school them on anything. They know it all, have done it all, and are true masters of their keyboard world.
Thats life in virtual reality. No need to bring the real world into it.
[/quote]
Exactly. You have to realise that, in a year’s time, most of these guys will have threads like “I did the right thing and avoided the fight so why do I feel like a pussy?”.[/quote]
My housemate at uni killed herself a couple of years back. If you’ve never dealt with a situation like that, or been close to someone whose done it then you should shut up.
Has everyone had a chance to make a blanket statement about this subject? Get it in quick before this thread heads downhill…
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
"Every suicide story I’ve experienced or read about sounded pathetic. A friend of mine had a girlfriend that killed herself over a shitty social life. Another jumped out of his window because of debt. Some guy in the paper killed himself and his retarded kid because his business was failing. "
Did you ever happen to think that some people suffer from extremely poor coping skills and/or mental illness?![/quote]
Yes of course. Having “poor coping skills” and jumping in front of a train makes you a coward. Having a mental illness means you are unfortunate. My beef is with people who are healthy (sorry if I didn’t make that clear).
This is an internet forum, and I’m voicing an opinion, not trying to pass it off as FACT, which I would need either formal training or experience to do.
[quote]And have any of you considered that people on here might have a loved one that commited suicide, all while having to hear what a coward this person might have been?
[/quote]
Of course, doesn’t change my opinion. Everyone that commits suicide knew someone else. They all had families, why not on this board.
Also, no I never had a loved one that committed suicide. I’ve had friends that have and it hasn’t changed my opinion of it. If my own brother decided to off himself I would feel deep regret for not being able to help him, but I would still think he took the coward’s way out.
Just because someone out there has an opinion on a subject that differs from your own, does not mean it is unfounded in the real world. I do not, as an atheist, challenge my friends’ motives for being Christian, Hindus and Muslims, and proceed to belittle their opinions on faith. They probably have good reason to think what they do. Get of your high horse.
This is what I think of Suicide.
^You need help