[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Well, this pretty much confirms it; PWI is where threads go to die.[/quote]
Not at all. In fact they are given a whole new life here.
In response to your request a few pages back, no, I won’t engage in the point by point discussion you’re probably looking for. Do the Google shuffle for other threads if you want my take on things on a more detailed basis.[/quote]
Believes in evolution and the Christian God. The evolution argument debunks evangelical fundamentalism, not the original apostolic church. Further, atheists who use evolution against young earth evangelicals are amateurs. Cosmology, as described to an ancient people in Genesis, is the young-earther’s biggest hurdle. Unless he’s prepared to deny space flight, and everything we know about the earth and the heavens. If not, literalism goes right out of the window.
Instead, some form of extra-biblical interpretative tradition is borrowed to explain away what otherwise should be another literalist reading about the scientific/natural world. The ‘scientific/natural’ claims of scripture are a vehicle for revelation about God’s nature, what expects, and relationship to man (culminating with Christ), AS TOLD TO ANCIENT PEOPLE. The evolution debate is for amateurs.
But ultimately, who cares? Biology degrees are a dime a dozen. Stop sending your kids to the same schools as each other. Congrats to which ever upbringing manages to turn out a higher percentage of well-adjusted taxpaying citizens. I could care less that Tim Tebow isn’t prepared to give a lecture on human evolution.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Well, pretty much every poll shows that around half of Americans flat out do not believe in evolution. That makes me want to vomit, so that should tell you where I stand.[/quote]
Well, on the bright side, that is your competition when it comes to the better things in life, so there. [/quote]
But what if my potential employer is one of the 50% and asks me what I believe? Such a cruel, cruel world I live in.[/quote]
Remember that a job interview goes both ways.
Maybe he is not the right employer for you?[/quote]
I’d rather just start a business that is areligious, but then I’d be alienating a huge chunk of my customers. I doubt old Houstonguy marches around insulting Christianity in Texas, for example.
But yea, you’re right. I wouldn’t want to work for a fundamentalist by any means.[/quote]
HeavyTriple have you ever been to the Creation museum in Petersburg, KY?
[/quote]
Been meaning to, but haven’t yet. I’ve heard that it’s both hilarious and depressing. I’ll check in when I finally make it out there.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Well, this pretty much confirms it; PWI is where threads go to die.[/quote]
Not at all. In fact they are given a whole new life here.
In response to your request a few pages back, no, I won’t engage in the point by point discussion you’re probably looking for. Do the Google shuffle for other threads if you want my take on things on a more detailed basis.[/quote]
PWI just isn’t as much fun as it used to be. What happened to all the theists? I remember I would have to ignore several people just to have enough time to respond to counter arguments. Even the political threads have lost their edge. Far too much comradery.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Only the Navajos are an macro-evolved race of humanoids. That’s it.[/quote]
and they speak in the tongue of the gods.
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
Evolution doesn’t disprove a creator. It sure disproves and invalidates Christianity though.
1.[/quote]
Not really. I was put through 12 years of Catholic school, and evolution was taught as fact. As far as I know the Catholic church accepts evolution. Evolution only invalidates closed-minded sects of Christianity that insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible. In that respect, evolution invalidates the tenents of any religion that insists on a literal interpretation of their creation story, and they all have them.
Like people in here have already said, evolution and God are not mutually exclusive and they don’t need to be. But people are defensive and feel attacked at even the slightest dig at their religion, so they hunker down and dig in for a side that they don’t necessarily agree with. It’s basic psychology to fight the hardest and loudest for the things that are the most lacking in supporting evidence, because on some level we know that our arguments are weak in those situations.
I’m not religious, but guys like your boy Hitchens there are (were) excessively disdainful.[/quote]
They undermine the only authority they had when they start undermining their own holy book like they do. Evolution is utterly incompatible with the bible, and any true Christian MUST call it a filthy lie, or else be a watered down compromising coward.
Hitchens took a stand and spoke his mind clearly, you should take care not to confuse disdain for religion with disdain for any religious person.[/quote]
I obviously won’t make any headway with you on this, but understand that I am arguing for a side I don’t take personally; religions evolve. To pretend that doesn’t happen or undermines the faith is ridiculous. I don’t know Bible verses so I can’t quote them (nor do I care to look that srt of information up), but I think Jesus stressed the message of holy text, not the letter of the law, so to speak.
I like Hitchens. He was a very intelligent man, but he was also very pompous and condescending. I happen to agree with many of his points, but he comes off as very disdainful of anyone espousing religion. Whether he actually says it is irrelevant, because he makes it very clear that anyone who believes in such things is incredibly stupid. That is disdain, in my book.[/quote]
You spent 12 years in catholic school and don’t know any bible verses, yet you are confident in talking about what Jesus “stressed.”
Yeah I think we can safely end this little discussion now. “My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge, you condescending bastard!” LOL you sound pretty much like every brain dead preacher they pitted against Hitchens.
It’s too bad really, I always wanted to see him come up against a little stronger opposition. Both Pushharder and Tiribulus would do.
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Well, pretty much every poll shows that around half of Americans flat out do not believe in evolution. That makes me want to vomit, so that should tell you where I stand.[/quote]
Well, on the bright side, that is your competition when it comes to the better things in life, so there. [/quote]
But what if my potential employer is one of the 50% and asks me what I believe? Such a cruel, cruel world I live in.[/quote]
Remember that a job interview goes both ways.
Maybe he is not the right employer for you?[/quote]
I’d rather just start a business that is areligious, but then I’d be alienating a huge chunk of my customers. I doubt old Houstonguy marches around insulting Christianity in Texas, for example.
But yea, you’re right. I wouldn’t want to work for a fundamentalist by any means.[/quote]
HeavyTriple have you ever been to the Creation museum in Petersburg, KY?
[/quote]
Been meaning to, but haven’t yet. I’ve heard that it’s both hilarious and depressing. I’ll check in when I finally make it out there.[/quote]
Based on this video I watched I would agree: A Scientist Visits A Creationist Museum - YouTube
Hilarious: Dinosaurs coexisting with humans
Depressing: the resident Astrophysicist thinks scripture should overrule scientific evidence
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
I’m fairly certain it has been observed on certain bacteria before. That doesn’t prove evolution is real?[/quote]
At that level or “scale” if you will, of course it does.
It’s a no-brainer that it, adaptation, occurs or even as “limited” speciation.[/quote]
Yup, that’s what I was saying. Evolution has been observed, but it still hasn’t been proven in humans - so on that front, right now, there is as much chance that we evolved from something else as there is that we were created by something else.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
I’m fairly certain it has been observed on certain bacteria before. That doesn’t prove evolution is real?[/quote]
At that level or “scale” if you will, of course it does.
It’s a no-brainer that it, adaptation, occurs or even as “limited” speciation.[/quote]
Yup, that’s what I was saying. Evolution has been observed, but it still hasn’t been proven in humans - so on that front, right now, there is as much chance that we evolved from something else as there is that we were created by something else.[/quote]
Yup.
It is just a major coincidence that we look decidedly ape like and share more than 95% of our genes with some of them.
Which leads me to believe that we are really marsupials.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I don’t understand why creationism and evolution are deemed to be mutually exclusive.
One would seem to speak to how the universe came about and the other deals with successive changes in generations of populations.
Believing in evolution doesn’t mean that you don’t think a greater being started everything at T=0.
Believing in creationism doesn’t mean that you don’t believe that we are descended from apes.[/quote]
Then you don’t understand one or the other properly.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
I’m fairly certain it has been observed on certain bacteria before. That doesn’t prove evolution is real?[/quote]
At that level or “scale” if you will, of course it does.
It’s a no-brainer that it, adaptation, occurs or even as “limited” speciation.[/quote]
Yup, that’s what I was saying. Evolution has been observed, but it still hasn’t been proven in humans - so on that front, right now, there is as much chance that we evolved from something else as there is that we were created by something else.[/quote]
Yup.
It is just a major coincidence that we look decidedly ape like and share more than 95% of our genes with some of them.
Which leads me to believe that we are really marsupials. [/quote]
On that front, as I mentioned before, I’m going to offer the 3rd option of genetic alteration by an alien race. I mean, why not?
That could explain the supposed missing link, as far fetched as it sounds.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
I’m fairly certain it has been observed on certain bacteria before. That doesn’t prove evolution is real?[/quote]
At that level or “scale” if you will, of course it does.
It’s a no-brainer that it, adaptation, occurs or even as “limited” speciation.[/quote]
Yup, that’s what I was saying. Evolution has been observed, but it still hasn’t been proven in humans - so on that front, right now, there is as much chance that we evolved from something else as there is that we were created by something else.[/quote]
What do you mean “proven in humans”? How do you “prove” evolution within the scope of a singular species. Can you personally define evolution? You understand, of course, that intermediary species tend to die out, which is why I hope you won’t reply with some sort of missing link argument.
Sorry I’m not trying to pick fights here, but I think the science behind evolution is a bit more complicated than most people generally give it credit for. I take this a bit personally.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Yup, that’s what I was saying. Evolution has been observed, but it still hasn’t been proven in humans -[/quote]
To me and ~95% scientific community it has been.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
On that front, as I mentioned before, I’m going to offer the 3rd option of genetic alteration by an alien race. I mean, why not?
That could explain the supposed missing link, as far fetched as it sounds.[/quote]
Why not?
Because there’s no evidence to support that claim.
Are you believer of Raelism or something?