[quote]k.elkouhen wrote:
But were they involved in war propaganda ?
I don’t think so. However, I may be wrong.[/quote]
What makes you assume it was war propaganda? Who took the image? Who published the image?
It could just have been a photographer in the region with some media group that saw a strange juxtaposition taking place.
Why are you so lenient towards terrorists but so harsh towards everyone else?
[quote]k.elkouhen wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
k.elkouhen wrote:
I don’t remember seeing any american chidren writing stuff on US bombs or being any where near them during Gulf war I or II.
American children collected scrap metal to make bombs.
Yeah that’s true.
But were they involved in war propaganda ?
I don’t think so. However, I may be wrong.
[/quote]
Absolutely. Not only did war posters and other forms of propaganda encourage children to particpate in scrap drives the childrens smiling faces were used in many forms of propaganda.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
You know I hate to disagree with you Vroom. But 3 Israeli soldiers were abducted. I think we can all agree that they were not civilian targets.
The Israeli responded by targetting civilians in Gaza and Lebanon. Or how would you call the blockade off Lebanese ports? The bombing of the airport?
But that really doesn’t matter. This vicious circle of revinge must stop. The sooner it stops, the better.
Waiting for the other side to stop is the same as hoping they’re smarter than us (who ever they and us might be). It’s important that both sides come to their sences and do what they can to avoid any further escalation.[/quote]
You’re kidding about expecting head-cutting-off, flying-planes-into-buildings, firing-rockets-into-civilian-communities, embassy-blowing-up, non-combatant-civilian-killing Islamic fundamentalists to come to their senses!!! You need to wake up, troop. Seriously.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
k.elkouhen wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
k.elkouhen wrote:
I don’t remember seeing any american chidren writing stuff on US bombs or being any where near them during Gulf war I or II.
American children collected scrap metal to make bombs.
Yeah that’s true.
But were they involved in war propaganda ?
I don’t think so. However, I may be wrong.
Absolutely. Not only did war posters and other forms of propaganda encourage children to particpate in scrap drives the childrens smiling faces were used in many forms of propaganda.[/quote]
The posters using smiling faces weren’t for the enemy were they ?
They were for the american public.
This picture is different.
[quote]k.elkouhen wrote:
This picture is different.
[/quote]
Oh bullshit.
You’ve got a lot of unanswered questions to answer by the way.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
I don’t think that’s happening on a large scale and I also don’t believe it was a planned op.[/quote]
I just found this pic.
In the first pic you could see an adult civilian women in the background smiling with someone off screen.
In this one both the girl in the background and the soldier on the tank are holding cameras.
In both pictures you can see that the girls are using the same rainbow coloured black marker.
It looks planned to me.
[quote]vroom wrote:
k.elkouhen wrote:
But were they involved in war propaganda ?
I don’t think so. However, I may be wrong.
What makes you assume it was war propaganda?
[/quote]
It looks like it and it made me sick.
Read the article and you’ll see that it’s an AP article and an AP photograher named Sebastian Scheiner.
You know very well that during war the press are completely under the conrtol of the army.
I’m being harsh ? Are you serious ?
That picture was taken at a heavy artillery position next to the Lebanese border last Monday.
If those shells killed Hezbollah then I don’t really care if this picture is propaganda or not.
But if they hit civilians then I do care.
How about you take a long look at this picture and you tell me that all the people that died in the rubble were Hezbollah.
Some debatable facts?
30 Little-Known Facts About Israel
2.Did you know that instead of sewing an insignia on clothing to distinguish race (like the Germans did to the Jews before WW2), Palestinian license plates in Israel are color coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?
Did you know that East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights are all considered by the entire world community, including the United States and the United Nations, to be occupied territory and NOT part of the State of Israel?
Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews, and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is set aside for about 400 Jewish settlers, while the remaining 15% is distributed among Hebron’s 120, 000 Palestinians?
5.Did you know that the United States awards Israel $5 billion in aid each year from American tax dollars?
6.Did you know that US aid to Israel ($1.8 billion annually in military aid alone) exceeds the aid the US grants to the entire African continent? This aid is used both to buy American weaponry and to buy arms made in Israel.
Did you know that Israel is awaiting an additional $4 billion worth of American military hardware, including new F-16s and Apache and Blackhawk helicopters. As Israel’s main ally and supporter internationally, the United States is committed to maintaining the Jewish state’s “qualitative edge” in weapons over its neighbors.
Did you know that the U.S. administration has notified Congress on numerous occasions that Israel has violated the rules on how US-supplied weapons are used? (In 1978, 1979 and 1982 during fighting in Lebanon, and once after Israel’s bombing of an Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981.)
Did you know that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites?
Did you know that high-ranking military officers in the Israeli Defense Forces have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war have been summarily executed by the Israeli forces?
Did you know that Israel blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a US warship in international waters (the USS Liberty), killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors and the US did nothing about it? (Imagine if an Islamic country like Iraq did this!)
Did you know that Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions?
Did you know that Israel is explicitly dedicated to the policy of maintaining a distinct Jewish character?
Did you know that Israel’s current Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, was found by an Israeli court to be “personally and directly responsible” for the Sabra and Shatilla massacre in Lebanon where more than a thousand innocent Palestinian men, women, and children were axed to death or lined up and shot in cold blood?
Did you know that on May 20, 1990, a group of unarmed Palestinian laborers were lined up and murdered by an Israeli solider as they sat waiting for transportation back to Gaza? The terrified laborers who gathered in an area of southern Israel known as Rishon Lezion (known to Palestinians by its Arabic name Oyon Qara) handed their ID cards to the Israeli soldier. The soldiers ordered the distressed laborers to kneel down and face the ground and unexpectedly showered them with a barrage of bullets, killing seven and wounding many others. Needless to say, the soldier was not charged with any crime.
Did you know that until as recently as 1988, Israelis were permitted to run “Jews Only” job ads?
Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays six US public relations firms to promote a “positive image” of Israel to the American public?
Did you know that Sharon’s coalition government includes a party–Molodet–which advocates ethnic cleansing by openly calling for the forced expulsion of all Palestinians from the occupied territories?
Did you know that recently-declassified documents indicate that David Ben-Gurion approved of the forced expulsion of Arabs from all Palestininan territory in 1948?
Did you know that the former chief rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Ovadia Yossef, who is also a founder and spiritual leader of the religious Shas party (Israel’s third largest political party) openly advocates a ‘Final Solution’ to annihilate the Palestinians? Speaking at the widely broadcast sermon marking the last Passover, he declared of the Palestinians: “The Lord shall return their deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world. It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable.”
Did you know that Palestinian refugees make up the largest portion of the refugee population in the world?
Did you know that Palestinian Christians are considered the “living stones” of Christianity because they are the direct descendants of the disciples of Jesus Christ? And the Palestinian Christians stand united with their Muslim brethren in the struggle against the Israeli occupation.
Did you know that despite a ban on torture by Israel’s High Court of Justice, torture has continued unabated by Shin Bet interrogators on Palestinian prisoners?
Did you know that despite every Israeli attempt to disrupt Palestinian education, Palestinians have the highest ratio of PhDs per capita in the world?
Did you know that the right of self-determination is guaranteed to every human being under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [December, 1948], yet Palestinians were/are expected to negotiate for this right under the Oslo Accords?
Did you know that despite what is widely perpetuated and written in the history books that the Arabs attacked Israel in the 1967 war, it was Israel who attacked the Arab countries first, capturing Jerusalem and the West Bank, and called the attack a pre-emptive strike?
Did you know that, as an occupying power, Israel has a particular responsibility under the Geneva Conventions to protect Palestinian civilians?
Did you know that, despite Ariel Sharon’s public call for a unilateral ceasefire, Israeli soldiers have not stopped shooting, killing or bulldozing Palestinian homes? The most recent example of this is the murder of three innocent women who were shot by an Israeli tank as they sat in their tent!
Did you know that the Zionists have been trying to destroy Masjid al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock for the last 50 years by digging underground tunnels beneath the sites to weaken its foundation causing it to collapse?
While the arab terrorists are dispicable lets not forget about the israeli terrorists.
It seems everyone talking about the Israel Palestine conflict has forgotten the assasination of Yitzhak Rabin who had brought the closest prospects of peace. He was assasinated by a zionist terrorist Yigal Amir on Nov 14, 1995.
Let?s not forget of course that the former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was a known war criminal, responsible for the massacres at Sabra and Shatila in 1982.
Let?s also not forget that the Israeli Mossad Special Forces? motto is “By way of deception, thou shalt do war.”
Interesting book to read regarding the Mossad?s operations and capabilities in this respect By Way of Deception by Victor Otrovsky a former Mossad agent who defected.
Israeli sniper tower, or “Death Tower” as known by palestinian children.
[quote]Sepukku wrote:
While the arab terrorists are dispicable lets not forget about the israeli terrorists.
It seems everyone talking about the Israel Palestine conflict has forgotten the assasination of Yitzhak Rabin who had brought the closest prospects of peace. He was assasinated by a zionist terrorist Yigal Amir on Nov 14, 1995.
[/quote]
If this guy hadn’t done what he did, there probably wouldn’t be an Israel today. Strange how things turn out.
[quote]k.elkouhen wrote:
You know very well that during war the press are completely under the conrtol of the army.[/quote]
Only in the sense that the military can stop people from reporting such things, not in the sense you stupidly imply.
Dude, it’s war. Perhaps you should post pictures of the buildings hit by rockets from Hezbollah and similarly decry them?
I’ll put it plain and simple, if Hezbollah went away tomorrow, then the war and the ongoing violence could end, permanently – assuming no other terrorist organization arose to needlessly attack Israel.
You continue to go on and on about the suffering of the Lebanese to the point that you sound like the Syrian ambassador.
Seriously, what do you suggest that Israel do? Do you suggest it sit back and allow itself to be ravaged by rockets on a daily basis? Do you suggest it be disbanded and the land be ceded to someone else? What is your magic solution?
You have not once, in this thread, laid blame at the feet of the terrorists though you say you disapprove of them. Please tell me you have more to add than decrying a nation defending itself from ongoing continued acts of terrorism.
Seppuku, the road to peace in the Middle East leads to the future, not to the past…
I think most of the world is willing to admit there has been a lot of bad and stupid acts in the region for a long period of time.
Instead of using the past to justify more, howabout the region look to the future and decide how they want to go about living in peace?
Without a state of active warfare and ongoing killing of civilians, it will be possible to allow hatreds to slowly fade and treatment of all people to slowly improve.
What a crock of shit. Of course people need to look to the future, but I?m not Israeli nor Palestinian and I?m not negotiating a deal for either of them, so who gives a fuck what I say about the future?
You have to know the history of a conflict to understand it fully, and I see every day in the news that the Israeli side is practically ignored. At the same time the media tends to alot the Palestinians into the same group as Hamas and Hezbollah, or pretends that what Hamas and Hezbollah do represent the Palestinian people and what they stand for.
Palestinians are the real victims of this conflict. Apart from everything that Israel has done, the surrounding Arab nations use them as a scapegoat for their anti-semetic agenda while simultaneously pretending to the ignorant world that they are in full support of Palestine and are fighting for their cause.
The fact of the matter is Palestinian refugees in said surrounding Arab countries get treated like shit and often killed if they are even allowed entrance to said countries to begin with.
Israel have one of the most elite armed forces and intelligence operations in the world, yet they pretend as though a puppet government who just recently suffered an assasination can really do anything about terrorists in their country?
Israel has consistently adopted an overkill policy which uses collateral damage of innocent people to instil maximal fear in anyone in proximity of dangerous ideals that threaten Israel. This way they hope to scare innocent and guilty people alike away from adopting said ideals. This is called terrorism. It has been just another facet of war, until the Bush Administration changed the meaning of the word so that they could use it to rally support. Terrorist this Terorrist that: War is Terrorism.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Seppuku, the road to peace in the Middle East leads to the future, not to the past…
[/quote]
God, I?m sorry, I?m still not over how idiotic the statement is. It sounds like some moron?s attempt on CNN to save face during an interview.
THE PAST LEADS TO THE PRESENT, WHICH LEADS TO THE FUTURE. Therefore, none of the components of time can be ignored. Fuck that rediculous sound-byte bullshit.
…Forgive me for being so abrupt. :-/
[quote]vroom wrote:
k.elkouhen wrote:
Are you telling me those shells weren’t being guarded ? I doubt any army leaves ammunition untended.
By the way, did you notice the adult in the background?
I don’t care. It’s a total non-issue. Trying to make it one is silly. Were the children harmed? No. Could they carry the ammo off? No. Did they harm anyone? No.
The west, and half the arab world, understands that Hezbollah brought this about and hopefully Hezbollah will be dismantled. With them out of the way, and an elected government in Lebanon, there will be a chance for peace.
A chance. Finally.[/quote]
Half the West and all of the Arab world understands that Israel brought this about. They are not retreating from occupied areas. They have established an out-door jail in the Gaza strip. They have a stranglehold on the Palestinian population there.
The Palestinians don’t controll their own borders. They’re blocked in from the sea, they don’t controll the border to Egypt. And they’re not allowed into Israel.
The Gaza-strip is not the nucleus of a new Palestinian state, it’s an outdoor prison.
And isn’t it surprising, with all those evil Arabs targetting innocent civlians, that the majority of the victims are Arab civilians. Hmmm, makes you wonder.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
I think this is on target with the Isreal situation and not a bad thing. They’ve been assulted constantly and are living in a hostile area where they deal with terror every day. Kids must deal with it too.
I think this strengthens and unites their cause to exist. That’s all they want…to exist.[/quote]
And keep a stranglehold on the Palestinians. They want that too.
And to expand their settlements on the Westbank. That’s something else they want.
And they want to have a say in who the Palestinians should be allowed to elect.
[quote]hundfuhrer99 wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
You know I hate to disagree with you Vroom. But 3 Israeli soldiers were abducted. I think we can all agree that they were not civilian targets.
The Israeli responded by targetting civilians in Gaza and Lebanon. Or how would you call the blockade off Lebanese ports? The bombing of the airport?
But that really doesn’t matter. This vicious circle of revinge must stop. The sooner it stops, the better.
Waiting for the other side to stop is the same as hoping they’re smarter than us (who ever they and us might be). It’s important that both sides come to their sences and do what they can to avoid any further escalation.
You’re kidding about expecting head-cutting-off, flying-planes-into-buildings, firing-rockets-into-civilian-communities, embassy-blowing-up, non-combatant-civilian-killing Islamic fundamentalists to come to their senses!!! You need to wake up, troop. Seriously.[/quote]
Ooh, but you’re right. We should continue to widen their recruiting pool considerable. We should give them the propaganda opportunities to convince the moderates. We shouldn’t skip on any opportunity to do this.
Also, we should excuse any Israeli kidnapping Palestinian civilians, buldozing their homes, bombing entire city blocks actions.
Only this way can we win this war.
Thanks for opening my eyes.
Ut’s you who needs to wake up. Seriously.