[quote]Christine wrote:
imhungry wrote:
While I understand the arguments made against the people applauding the womans actions and I would tend to agree with them, the fact that the rapist asked how her daughter was doing, that’s what puts me over the edge in this situation.
Exactly.
What does one expect when they poke a mamma bear? [/quote]
Honey.
[quote]Christine wrote:
I also like the Showtime show Dexter.
It’s fun to root for a serial killer.[/quote]
The book is also worth reading if you get the chance.
Holy cow. This mother is an Alpha Female.
[quote]orion wrote:
So, maybe a few more vigilantes would prevent a lot of rapes and the prevented suffering was a net positive?[/quote]
Or ensure that rapists learn to kill their victims and make a clean job of it. There is no right solution here.
[quote]orion wrote:
So, maybe a few more vigilantes would prevent a lot of rapes and the prevented suffering was a net positive?[/quote]
Or ensure that rapists learn to kill their victims and make a clean job of it. There is no right solution here.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
… she was cheered and clapped by a crowd, who shouted … “Well done!”
Some people prefer their rapists broiled ‘medium-well done’…[/quote]
[quote]orion wrote:
So, maybe a few more vigilantes would prevent a lot of rapes and the prevented suffering was a net positive?[/quote]
Or ensure that rapists learn to kill their victims and make a clean job of it. There is no right solution here.
“There is no right solution here”
A kill’s a kill.
[quote]amphibian wrote:
“There is no right solution here”
A kill’s a kill.[/quote]
That’s my point. What happens when the would be rapist start killing their victims?
A kill’s a kill.
Alot of these guys who do things like this either aren’t expecting to get caught or they don’t care if they do. They don’t think like a rational law abiding citizen. They have a totally different mind set, one that makes no sense to us because we have a conscience and know the consequnces of our actions.
So us sitting here going, “well if laws were tougher they would just start killing their victims”, they might but then again most criminals won’t think that logically. They won’t be going “I might as well kill my victim because if I get caught I will die anyway.” They usually don’t plan that far ahead, they are thinking more about the now, the moment of opportunity, “I can rape her now because I feel like it and can get away with it” more then they are worried about what happens after the crime.
I also want to say this about forgiveness, I am very forgiving, if someone does something mean to me or wrongs me in most any ways, I can turn the other check and be done with it. But, when someone does something to my family or friends, then it is a total different story.
If this woman had the choice of her being raped or her daughter then she would have said “rape me instead of my daughter” but that’s not what happened. This man did one of the worse things he could ever do to a loving parent, he hurt her child, and I don’t blame her one bit for killing him.
[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
orion wrote:
No, that is the European justice system and I´d be reluctant to condemn it as an American.
Well I’m Canadian so I’ll condemn it on your behalf. 
I for one am sick of hearing about Canadian criminals who are released onto the streets despite having several convictions.
I heard on the radio today that a thirteen year old boy was arrested for armed robbery at a transit station in Vancouver. He already has OVER FORTY convictions!
The police arrest and re-arrest known gang members who have multiple convictions, then get a mild, revolving-door sentence, and are back on the streets again within two years.
I’m not a fan of “three strikes”, but I do think we should have compounding punishment for reoffenders of violent and organized crime.
A lighter sentence for a “first offence” of say, 2 years.
If they straighten out, then fine.
If they reoffend within 2 years of being released from prison, then they get 4 years.
If they reoffend within 4 years then they get 8 years.
Reoffend within 8 and they get 16.
Reoffend within 16? Well, it’s only a matter of time before you run out of years and die. With this system, nobody can argue that they “didn’t get a chance” to straighten themselves out – and nobody gets 3rd-strike life imprisonment for stealing a slice of pizza.
Say a punk 12 y/o kid commits armed robbery and gets 3 months in Juvie. He reoffends within 3 months of his release, then he gets 6 months.
Now at this point he’s 13 years old and probably contemplating straightening out because he knows he’s not going to get a slap on the wrist, he’s going to get a solid YEAR in prison the next time he screws up, then TWO YEARS after that, FOUR, EIGHT, and so on.
The only leniency given to “young offenders” would be that their compounding sentences start out at a much lower prison-time.
That or, you know, we could base our entire criminal justice and rehabilitation system on SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE so that we can use PROVEN methods for preventing crime and rehabilitating violent offenders.
But then that would make sense.
In conclusion, T-Mom = Yes.
ElbowStrike[/quote]
I can totally understand your fustration with the system. I use to be like a few of the posters on this thread about the justice system, till I worked with juvies and then in an adult prison. What you have described here is pretty bad but have you heard of a “60 day murder charge”. Try understanding these guys
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-7/11712631133140.xml&coll=1
To whoever said our current system is better than widespread vigilantism needs to maybe go back and re-think things a little. First of all what facts are you using to make that statement? The fact that you or no one close to you has been raped, mugged, shot, held up, beaten? How about corporate crime?
Every single american and most likley every single human being in this fucking world is a victim of corporate crime. Ultra Powerful people who steal Billions of dollars and then have the connections to cover it up, go buy an island, or get pardoned by the president. This is all bullshit. Back in the dawn of our young nation, we had a justice system, it was called the right to bear arms, and a sheriff.
The sheriff decided WHO was innocent and guilty, and if you shot a guy trying to rape your daughter, or shot him after the fact, the sheriff would stand by you. If you got in a bar fight and shot someone, the sheriff would likley throw you in jail, or shoot you if you resisted his arrest.
Now under these laws, All the corporate fucks, would not steal a fucking penny from the public by insider trading, or even giving themselves outragous bonuses and the like, because someone would walk the fuck up and shoot the motherfucker. And the local sheriff, would also have been stolen from and would say, eh, you were in the right.
I mean do you think back then, groups of men went around kidnapping girls so that they could get money from random strangers to come and rape them? This shit happens to hundreds of thousands of american girls every year, I mean do you understand that number? Every year, there is a hundred thousand fathers, whose daughter is kidnapped, and then raped over and over and over and then most likley killed. Or perhaps they are shipped to another country where the rich corporate theiving fucks pay to rape or turn them into slaves.
It is us, the common people who use good judgement on a daily basis who need to be responsible for passing judgement on bad people. It has worked for the entire history of mankind, and it will work in the future, our current justice system is fucking rediculous. If these mother fuckers continue to try to erode the second amendment, be wary, get your guns and bullets NOW!
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
To whoever said our current system is better than widespread vigilantism needs to maybe go back and re-think things a little. First of all what facts are you using to make that statement? The fact that you or no one close to you has been raped, mugged, shot, held up, beaten? How about corporate crime?
Every single american and most likley every single human being in this fucking world is a victim of corporate crime. Ultra Powerful people who steal Billions of dollars and then have the connections to cover it up, go buy an island, or get pardoned by the president. This is all bullshit. Back in the dawn of our young nation, we had a justice system, it was called the right to bear arms, and a sheriff.
The sheriff decided WHO was innocent and guilty, and if you shot a guy trying to rape your daughter, or shot him after the fact, the sheriff would stand by you. If you got in a bar fight and shot someone, the sheriff would likley throw you in jail, or shoot you if you resisted his arrest.
Now under these laws, All the corporate fucks, would not steal a fucking penny from the public by insider trading, or even giving themselves outragous bonuses and the like, because someone would walk the fuck up and shoot the motherfucker. And the local sheriff, would also have been stolen from and would say, eh, you were in the right.
I mean do you think back then, groups of men went around kidnapping girls so that they could get money from random strangers to come and rape them? This shit happens to hundreds of thousands of american girls every year, I mean do you understand that number? Every year, there is a hundred thousand fathers, whose daughter is kidnapped, and then raped over and over and over and then most likley killed. Or perhaps they are shipped to another country where the rich corporate theiving fucks pay to rape or turn them into slaves.
It is us, the common people who use good judgement on a daily basis who need to be responsible for passing judgement on bad people. It has worked for the entire history of mankind, and it will work in the future, our current justice system is fucking rediculous. If these mother fuckers continue to try to erode the second amendment, be wary, get your guns and bullets NOW!
V[/quote]
Very well said!!
[quote]strangec wrote:
Vegita wrote:
To whoever said our current system is better than widespread vigilantism needs to maybe go back and re-think things a little. First of all what facts are you using to make that statement? The fact that you or no one close to you has been raped, mugged, shot, held up, beaten? How about corporate crime?
Every single american and most likley every single human being in this fucking world is a victim of corporate crime. Ultra Powerful people who steal Billions of dollars and then have the connections to cover it up, go buy an island, or get pardoned by the president. This is all bullshit. Back in the dawn of our young nation, we had a justice system, it was called the right to bear arms, and a sheriff.
The sheriff decided WHO was innocent and guilty, and if you shot a guy trying to rape your daughter, or shot him after the fact, the sheriff would stand by you. If you got in a bar fight and shot someone, the sheriff would likley throw you in jail, or shoot you if you resisted his arrest.
Now under these laws, All the corporate fucks, would not steal a fucking penny from the public by insider trading, or even giving themselves outragous bonuses and the like, because someone would walk the fuck up and shoot the motherfucker. And the local sheriff, would also have been stolen from and would say, eh, you were in the right.
I mean do you think back then, groups of men went around kidnapping girls so that they could get money from random strangers to come and rape them? This shit happens to hundreds of thousands of american girls every year, I mean do you understand that number? Every year, there is a hundred thousand fathers, whose daughter is kidnapped, and then raped over and over and over and then most likley killed. Or perhaps they are shipped to another country where the rich corporate theiving fucks pay to rape or turn them into slaves.
It is us, the common people who use good judgement on a daily basis who need to be responsible for passing judgement on bad people. It has worked for the entire history of mankind, and it will work in the future, our current justice system is fucking rediculous. If these mother fuckers continue to try to erode the second amendment, be wary, get your guns and bullets NOW!
V
Very well said!!
[/quote]
Thanks,
More and more I think the people who want someone else to handle delivering justice on thier behalf just don’t have the stones to do it themselves. I’m a very calm rational human being, and I avoid violence at all costs, haven’t even been in a real fight since high school. But I would really really hurt someone if they messed with my daughter, or my soon to be wife, or any of my close family. The good thing for me is I know I have friendsa and family who have my back and they know I have thiers, no one has to do it by themselves.
V
[quote]makkun wrote:
Let’s analyse the lynch mob… ah … discussion for a moment. We all agree that rape is as despicable as it gets, and we all agree that the punishment needs to fit the crime.
If you look at the abominable record for rape convictions and the ridiculous sentences often handed out in our ‘civilised’ countries, the time he got seems actually not bad. Should it have been more - probably, but eventually, you’ll have to leave people out again.
A crime for which people tend not to get out again so early compared to rape is murder. A planned action to dowse someone with flamable liquid and torch them, will most probably lead to a murder conviction - and should do so. Even if the mother ends up with a conviction of manslaughter, it’s a gruesome crime, and needs to be punished accordingly.
How this will pan out in any form not harming the daughters who’ve not only lost immeasurable quality of life through their rape, but now also their mother (even if she gets a lenient sentence), completely escapes me.
Sure, it’s cool to root for brutal vigilantism on TV, comic books and the Internets - but it tends to leave out the suffering of the people surrounding the vigilantes.
Is the mother’s impulse understandable? Sure. Is acting out on it acceptable? No.
Besides the fact that normally you just don’t walk out of jail without bail conditions; and most probably walking up to the family of your victims to taunt them tends to break them - the prudent and correct thing would have been to report it to the police and get the fucker back into prison. That would have served justice, set a sign, showed T-mom-ness and would have saved her daughters more suffering. It would have never made the newspapers though.
Makkun
PS: Sorry Molotov - English isn’t my native language and I’ve made that ‘loose’ mistake before. I feel ashamed. ;-)[/quote]
Makkun, I forgive you. lol
You are a very thoughtful and rational person seemingly.
It’s just I think all of your posts could be summed up in one phrase.
WWJD
What would Jesus do?
Easier posted than done.
[quote]Molotov_Coktease wrote:
[…]
Makkun, I forgive you. lol[/quote]
Phew. 
[quote]You are a very thoughtful and rational person seemingly.
It’s just I think all of your posts could be summed up in one phrase.
WWJD
What would Jesus do?
Easier posted than done.[/quote]
I’m an atheist. Makes it even harder.
[Edit:] Addendum: I would argue most what you see in this thread is Internet-posturing anyway. Most people here would react to the whole scenario like normal just do - feel hurt, angered, and helpless. So, you’re very right - it is easier posted than done.
Makkun
I believe that this is what happened afterwards:ALICANTE / Sale of jail a woman who burned the rapist of his daughter in Benejúzar
The hearing requires the processing to go to court every Monday Orihuela and continue outpatient psychiatric treatment
Just over a year after that Mari Carmen GE burned man who raped his daughter after Benejúzar sprayed with gasoline in a bar near his home, the woman leaves Fontcalent. His family was waiting yesterday at the gates of the prison to take them home, although it would be the very woman who would decide, once out, if people go back to where it all happened or transferred to any housing of their relatives elsewhere.
The hearing has ordered the release of Mari Carmen with two conditions. According to the order authorizing the release from prison, the woman must be filed in the Magistrate’s Court No. 2 of Orihuela every Monday. You must also undergo a psychiatric outpatient treatment and report the same to the court each month.
During this time, the relatives have fought to get back home, Mari Carmen, have brought proceedings before the judge because they believed that women did not constitute a danger to anyone, and have finally managed to leave the prison. Joaquín Galant, counsel, told the judge at the time that the events Mari Carmen was in a state of temporary insanity. Her husband, Francisco Rodriguez said yesterday be “contentísimo” with the release of his wife, waiting at the door of the jail.
On June 13 last year, Mari Carmen GE met VS Antonio Cosme near his house Benejúzar. According to her statements before the judge, not recognized at first, but when asked by her daughters knew who it was. The woman bought gasoline and entered the bar where his victim. There was sprayed with the liquid and fire, also wounding another person who was in the bar.
Antonio Cosme, who was sentenced to nine years for raping the little daughter of Mari Carmen in 1998, enjoyed those days of leave prison. He died a few days later at La Fe de Valencia.
A month ago, the defense of Mari Carmen asked the Court to release his client to consider the investigation had already concluded, it could not destroy evidence or influence witnesses. Furthermore, counsel Joaquin Galant noted that there was no risk of leakage to be rooted in Benejúzar and that could be replicated in any way this offense. Although the prosecutor had always opposed the request, this time the Board gave the right to counsel.
According to the imprisonment, detention must be ‘exceptional’ and in no case should pursue punitive purposes. The Board considers that the mental illness suffered by Mari Carmen following the rape of his daughter by the deceased is not a “serious risk” to the victim. In fact, no "to any episode 'of the violent proceedings against them.