[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Why wait until your 15%? You should be trying to improve strength throughout the entire cut. You can get pretty damned lean and still make strength gains. It’s only at the very low body fat that it’s damned near impossible.
how much experience do you have with losing significant weight/body fat and gaining appreciable strength? Leverages change a lot when you lose 10%+ of your bodyweight. Max effort lifts definately suffer. [/quote]
I just saw this, lol. I’m guessing this is the post you were referring to that bugged you =p
In any case, last summer when I dropped to around 10% body fat I made strength gains (albeit slower than when in caloric surplus). I went from 196 down to 170. My statement was actually based entirely off that experience and is nothing I’ve ever read. In fact, at that time in my training, I had never read anything on TNation or anything warning me about strength drops when leaning out. Therefore, I just thought I needed to keep progressing on the big lifts, and I did.
So reread my post. I said, “you CAN get pretty damned lean and still make strength gains.” Nowhere did I say you SHOULD or anything about appreciable strength gains. I also left strength gains open ended. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re pulling heavy singles every week and seeing your 1rm sky high. During my cut I saw my 5rm, 8rm, 10rm all go up slowly. Since the cards are stacked against you in a caloric deficit, I think that is the time more than ever to at least try to make strength gains. If you even end up maintaining you come out ahead.
Yeah definitely the plan is progress every workout no matter what the goal is. I’m just assuming progression may slow as i lose bf and that ill be comfortable enough with my body to hang around 15% and really start working on strength.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Why wait until your 15%? You should be trying to improve strength throughout the entire cut. You can get pretty damned lean and still make strength gains. It’s only at the very low body fat that it’s damned near impossible.
how much experience do you have with losing significant weight/body fat and gaining appreciable strength? Leverages change a lot when you lose 10%+ of your bodyweight. Max effort lifts definately suffer. [/quote]
I just saw this, lol. I’m guessing this is the post you were referring to that bugged you =p
In any case, last summer when I dropped to around 10% body fat I made strength gains (albeit slower than when in caloric surplus). I went from 196 down to 170. My statement was actually based entirely off that experience and is nothing I’ve ever read. In fact, at that time in my training, I had never read anything on TNation or anything warning me about strength drops when leaning out. Therefore, I just thought I needed to keep progressing on the big lifts, and I did.
So reread my post. I said, “you CAN get pretty damned lean and still make strength gains.” Nowhere did I say you SHOULD or anything about appreciable strength gains. I also left strength gains open ended. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re pulling heavy singles every week and seeing your 1rm sky high. During my cut I saw my 5rm, 8rm, 10rm all go up slowly. Since the cards are stacked against you in a caloric deficit, I think that is the time more than ever to at least try to make strength gains. If you even end up maintaining you come out ahead. [/quote]
Sweet as. Thanks for your input. I take it you were quite new to training/weightloss at the time as well? I agree submaximal (higher rep) work isnt affected greatly unless really low carbing.
Crazy climber, that post was excellent, almost article quality haha. Very true as well!
The “negative compliment” paragraph was bang on.
Cheers,
-PTD
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Why wait until your 15%? You should be trying to improve strength throughout the entire cut. You can get pretty damned lean and still make strength gains. It’s only at the very low body fat that it’s damned near impossible.
how much experience do you have with losing significant weight/body fat and gaining appreciable strength? Leverages change a lot when you lose 10%+ of your bodyweight. Max effort lifts definately suffer. [/quote]
I just saw this, lol. I’m guessing this is the post you were referring to that bugged you =p
In any case, last summer when I dropped to around 10% body fat I made strength gains (albeit slower than when in caloric surplus). I went from 196 down to 170. My statement was actually based entirely off that experience and is nothing I’ve ever read. In fact, at that time in my training, I had never read anything on TNation or anything warning me about strength drops when leaning out. Therefore, I just thought I needed to keep progressing on the big lifts, and I did.
So reread my post. I said, “you CAN get pretty damned lean and still make strength gains.” Nowhere did I say you SHOULD or anything about appreciable strength gains. I also left strength gains open ended. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re pulling heavy singles every week and seeing your 1rm sky high. During my cut I saw my 5rm, 8rm, 10rm all go up slowly. Since the cards are stacked against you in a caloric deficit, I think that is the time more than ever to at least try to make strength gains. If you even end up maintaining you come out ahead. [/quote]
Sweet as. Thanks for your input. I take it you were quite new to training/weightloss at the time as well? I agree submaximal (higher rep) work isnt affected greatly unless really low carbing. [/quote]
Very first time getting lean, yes (unless you count high school cross country). Newish to training. I mean I had a 3 plate squat and 4 plate deadlift by that time. I think I was like 8 months into training with weights.
I’ll get back to you in 6 months or so when I’ll be starting my cut from 230-240 range and appreciably higher strength levels.
I agree that you should always strive to do your best while cutting (not subconsciously do less because your performance often goes down naturally), but there is a bad mindset you can fall into - if you don’t realise your limitations while cutting (strength plateauing) you may start to get itchy feet and start to change crap that needn’t be changed.
I see this all the time and have experienced it myself. You start to get impatient, or worry. You hate feeling “flat” all the time, and yearn for that pumped feeling and PR beating phase. You start to change your lifting, or at worst, you switch to a gaining phase again (“screw it”). This all can be avoided if you are realistic and have direction/goals no matter what.
This wouldn’t be so much of a problem for someone pretty averagely built, but for someone like the OP who’s built appreciable size/strength, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment by hoping to hold onto ALL gains on a cut (likely not happening as a natty). There comes a point where you’ve just got to bite the bullet.
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
I agree that you should always strive to do your best while cutting (not subconsciously do less because your performance often goes down naturally), but there is a bad mindset you can fall into - if you don’t realise your limitations while cutting (strength plateauing) you may start to get itchy feet and start to change crap that needn’t be changed.
I see this all the time and have experienced it myself. You start to get impatient, or worry. You hate feeling “flat” all the time, and yearn for that pumped feeling and PR beating phase. You start to change your lifting, or at worst, you switch to a gaining phase again (“screw it”). This all can be avoided if you are realistic and have direction/goals no matter what.
This wouldn’t be so much of a problem for someone pretty averagely built, but for someone like the OP who’s built appreciable size/strength, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment by hoping to hold onto ALL gains on a cut (likely not happening as a natty). There comes a point where you’ve just got to bite the bullet.[/quote]
well said!
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Whats the reason for lowering protein intake?[/quote]
Well I figured since I’m uncomfortable with my bf level due to 3 years of uncontrolled unclean bulking that maybe I could maintain my lbm with the 1 gram per pound rule which would help with decent calorie reduction instead of drastically cutting carbs which I love and crave 24/7. But I slept on it and dicked around with calorie counters a bit and I think I’m going to try the moderate/low carb approach first. Keeping protein at 300-325, carbs at about 100g not including vegetables, and fat at 77 grams and all of those carbs pre and post workout
Calories coming from protein shakes, chicken breast/thighs, tuna, eggs, white rice(post workout) and a monster energy drink pre workout.
I calculated a days worth of calories at around 2200-2500 this is estimated I bumped it up some from 1869 because I didn’t include things I cook with like butter in the eggs or olive oil when baking chicken.
I have no idea how many calories I eat on a regular basis. Its pretty much about the same but with a packet of ramen or a fast food burger/burrito with fries thrown into the mix so I’m assuming my regular caloric intake could be anywhere from 500-1000 calories more than that.
But anyways I think even only 2000 calories is too much for me to cut. I’m in the army but I work nights so other than my workout I’m incredibly seditary. I’m talking like 12 hours of almost zero movement.
[/quote]
Paulie, are you really sure you built that kind of size and strength on a 2,600-3,000 cal diet a day? Because if you did, you have one sloooooow metabolism!
IMHO, someone at your size and BF level is probably eating close to 3,500 cals or higher.
If you drop 500 cals, 3,000 would still give you a decent amount of macros to play with…
Step 1: severely restrict wheat (“flour” = wheat) and added sugar (liquid fruit = liquid sugar); do not replace those calories w/ anything else, keep everything else the same
Step 2: see what results you get
Step 3: decide what else to do
Anyone think IF is a bad idea? 16 hour fast 8 hour feeding window?
i rarely use protein shakes
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
i rarely use protein shakes[/quote]
amazed.
lol not that i think it’s impossible, but uh you must be eating insane amounts of meat right?
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
amazed.
lol not that i think it’s impossible, but uh you must be eating insane amounts of meat right?[/quote]
is ‘eating meat’ meant to be a euphemism? if so then no.
do i eat a lot? yes. lots and lots. and lots
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
amazed.
lol not that i think it’s impossible, but uh you must be eating insane amounts of meat right?[/quote]
is ‘eating meat’ meant to be a euphemism? if so then no.
do i eat a lot? yes. lots and lots. and lots[/quote]
nah not a euphemism just saying for me to hit 350g of protein a day on top of the 1-2 burgers, chicken breast, 3 chicken thighs, 12 eggs id probably have to add a steak and another couple chicken breasts to kick the 150g of liquid protein i drink every day.
edit: and triple the amount of time i spend in the kitchen cooking