Well I see that you have some more comments about race, interesting. Do you think that the higher prices that minorities have to pay are a result of racism/discrimination or people’s attempts to ( unfairly) go after custonmers with little economic power? Are the retailers trying to take advantage of the minorities?
No, let me ask you…do you think there are no retailers who take advantage of the situation? I think I have explained my position better than I even needed to.
You jump in at the end of a thread several pages long with, “Well I see that you have some more comments about race, interesting.” Is it interesting? Is it really?[/quote]
Would you like to open a shop in am area where violence and the destruction of property is the norm?
If a white guy does go into one of these racist supermarkets, will he recieve some kind of white guy discount? Or, is he charged the same price as the majority black residents who shop there?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
If a white guy does go into one of these racist supermarkets, will he recieve some kind of white guy discount? Or, is he charged the same price as the majority black residents who shop there?[/quote]
If supermarkets in other areas offer cheaper prices, why can’t they simply go shop there? Lack of transportation? Too far? Are they harassed by the authorities if they go in the “nice” part of town?
If shops in the poorer areas charge higher prices, is it really because they’re racist and gouge their main costumers, or does it just reflect the added costs (security/insurance/theft/etc.) of doing business in a poorer area?
[quote]pookie wrote:
Sloth wrote:
If a white guy does go into one of these racist supermarkets, will he recieve some kind of white guy discount? Or, is he charged the same price as the majority black residents who shop there?
If supermarkets in other areas offer cheaper prices, why can’t they simply go shop there? Lack of transportation? Too far? Are they harassed by the authorities if they go in the “nice” part of town?
If shops in the poorer areas charge higher prices, is it really because they’re racist and gouge their main costumers, or does it just reflect the added costs (security/insurance/theft/etc.) of doing business in a poorer area?
[/quote]
As a I white guy myself, I’m incapable of objectively answering these questions. But, I am curious if they’re giving white guy discounts in the these overpriced stores.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I work with one who I went school with. He is white and weighs 230lbs with what can’t be more than 8% body fat. The fact that he NEVER (as in not once) gets this should be a fairly revealing clue…that you will no doubt try to explain away.
You also seemed to come to the conclusion that I was somehow acting less than professionally when this couldn’t be farther from the truth. She simply saw that her kids were relaxed. We weren’t exactly throwing a party in the hallway when this comment was made.
Is it possible that this does not involve race? Yes, anything is “possible”. How probable do you think it really is?[/quote]
Could it be your 230lb colleague just looks the part way more than you do? You have a shaved head and your size shows much more in clothes than his. So you pretty much have to wear black pants and dress shoes with a shirt and white robe to offset that. You know what I mean, like the archetypal doctor? People still think like that.
Like I would never think Brock Lesnar is a doctor, but a Morgan Freeman type wouldn’t even have me reading the tag.
I just wanted to know what you thought. Because over here, looking the part, looking sharp is very important, so that’s why I’m asking. If I’m wrong then please forgive me. I remember you posted a similar thing some time ago(the patient was surprised by your eloquence etc…?) and that also struck me as a reaction to your ‘look’ more than race.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
pookie wrote:
Sloth wrote:
If a white guy does go into one of these racist supermarkets, will he recieve some kind of white guy discount? Or, is he charged the same price as the majority black residents who shop there?
If supermarkets in other areas offer cheaper prices, why can’t they simply go shop there? Lack of transportation? Too far? Are they harassed by the authorities if they go in the “nice” part of town?
If shops in the poorer areas charge higher prices, is it really because they’re racist and gouge their main costumers, or does it just reflect the added costs (security/insurance/theft/etc.) of doing business in a poorer area?
As a I white guy myself, I’m incapable of objectively answering these questions. But, I am curious if they’re giving white guy discounts in the these overpriced stores. [/quote]
Wasn’t there an Eddie Murphy skit where he dresses up as a white guy and he gets special treatment and free stuff in stores?
This isn’t news at all, it should be exactly what one with a basic understanding of economics would expect.
Right. Then tell me, since you have such amazing insight, what is the specific reason the major shopping center on Martin Luther King and Reed rd has higher prices and poorer quality. I don’t want speculation. I want you to give specifics…you know, to show that race is definitely a non-issue and shouldn’t even be considered.
Do you think that this could have far reaching health issues?
Issues, yes, but none of them are reason to get upset over. The wealthy will always be able to afford faster, better health care. The only way around this is socialized healthcare that will bring down quality for all. After reading some of your posts on this subject, I think we are generally in agreement here.
Nothing to be upset over? Would you say the same if you happened to live in that area with no transportation aside from public buses?
Do you think that increased numbers of minorities with health issues are a problem?
Indeed it is, and to fix the problem you need to examine its root. It is not race.
Its roots are submerged in a history that has nearly everything to do with race. Exactly how far down do the “roots” you are looking at travel?
You have still failed to show a cause for higher prices based on race. Correlation does not equal causation.
How would I possibly prove this to you aside from showing you that one particular race is who is largely effected the most? If this was as blatant as a store claiming to be racist, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Also, unless you are about to claim that racism isn’t racism unless it calls itself racism, pointing out economics doesn’t change who is largely affected.
College entrance? Tuition/scholarship availability? Employment? Barack Obama making fun of whites dancing abilities? Not to mention the racially charged crimes that rarely make the news.
[i]
“Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit violent crime against a white person than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.”
“Black-on-white rape is 115 times more common than the reverse.”
[/i]
om/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57250
Yes, you are clearly at more of a disadvantage than anyone else. Wait, you aren’t, are you? Please deny that white men are least likely than any other race to experience any sort of bias that can affect their social standing.
I don’t think anyone has written that white people never experience racial bias. However, I am definitely stating that the effects are far less reaching and the incidence is so low in comparison that most should be ashamed for acting like it is a nation wide issue.
I don’t know anything about Obama’s comments about how white people dance and don’t care. My guess is, this didn’t affect you at all and hasn’t affected your social standing or economic class one bit. Was it a joke? if so, then why did you present it as if it wasn’t?[/quote]
You are, without a doubt, one of the folks I most respect here. In this discussion, as in others, I find your comments to be interesting, incisive and well-thought-out.
As a white guy who’s lived in an Asian country for more than a decade, though, I have to say that it may be nigh impossible for you to understand what Prof X is describing unless you’ve spent considerable time as a member of a racial minority.
Try as one might to de-emphasize it, the racial factor is just always there if you’re one of the “different” people.
Anyway, great discussion by both of you guys…[/quote]
It is interesting that every white guy in this thread seems to be avoiding the posts by other white guys who live in other countries who tell them they get similar responses when they are the minority.
You all just didn’t see this post or did you conveniently push it out of your minds?
“oh, well, let’s talk about economics because race is such a non-issue in this country because I have never experienced it”
I bet quite a few of you actually think you are witty.
You are, without a doubt, one of the folks I most respect here. In this discussion, as in others, I find your comments to be interesting, incisive and well-thought-out.
As a white guy who’s lived in an Asian country for more than a decade, though, I have to say that it may be nigh impossible for you to understand what Prof X is describing unless you’ve spent considerable time as a member of a racial minority.
Try as one might to de-emphasize it, the racial factor is just always there if you’re one of the “different” people.
Anyway, great discussion by both of you guys…
It is interesting that every white guy in this thread seems to be avoiding the posts by other white guys who live in other countries who tell them they get similar responses when they are the minority.
You all just didn’t see this post or did you conveniently push it out of your minds?
“oh, well, let’s talk about economics because race is such a non-issue in this country because I have never experienced it”
I bet quite a few of you actually think you are witty.[/quote]
Exactly.
One time I was at the probation office in Paterson, waiting to see one of the officers. You don’t quite understand how strange it is, and how much you don’t think about race, until you’re the only white kid in a room full of gangbangers.
The metal detector kept going off on me before I went in, apparently because of the cellaphane on my cigarette pack, and one of the motherfuckers goes, “Niggas got bullets on’em.” I looked over… but, you shut your mouth because if some shit happens, I wil get beat down because I’m the cracker.
It’s a sobering experience.
Race is glaring, important, and treacherous. Don’t underestimate it.
To be fair, we should start asking the white guy in the Asian country whether he dresses just like the other Asians…or…or maybe he is just really muscular…or…or maybe it is all in his head and he was TAUGHT to see racism and we have to tell him how to think since he is clearly inferior in mentality than those of us who see no “Asian racism”.
[quote]orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
lumbernac wrote:
Well I see that you have some more comments about race, interesting. Do you think that the higher prices that minorities have to pay are a result of racism/discrimination or people’s attempts to ( unfairly) go after custonmers with little economic power? Are the retailers trying to take advantage of the minorities?
No, let me ask you…do you think there are no retailers who take advantage of the situation? I think I have explained my position better than I even needed to.
You jump in at the end of a thread several pages long with, “Well I see that you have some more comments about race, interesting.” Is it interesting? Is it really?
Would you like to open a shop in am area where violence and the destruction of property is the norm?
[/quote]
Sure, as long as I’m not personally working in the place if you don’t mind a cynical awnsers, and if the consumers are used to slightly higher prices due to having a higher risk of merchandise, eployee’s health and willingness to work, etc from crime.
And if the profx is attempting to say that people want to take advantage of black people because they are weaker economically it is only fair to bring up other reasons why the retailers might be demanding higher prices, and I’m waiting for an awnser but I probably won’t get it.
[quote]lumbernac wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
lumbernac wrote:
Well I see that you have some more comments about race, interesting. Do you think that the higher prices that minorities have to pay are a result of racism/discrimination or people’s attempts to ( unfairly) go after custonmers with little economic power? Are the retailers trying to take advantage of the minorities?
No, let me ask you…do you think there are no retailers who take advantage of the situation? I think I have explained my position better than I even needed to.
You jump in at the end of a thread several pages long with, “Well I see that you have some more comments about race, interesting.” Is it interesting? Is it really?
Would you like to open a shop in am area where violence and the destruction of property is the norm?
Sure, as long as I’m not personally working in the place if you don’t mind a cynical awnsers, and if the consumers are used to slightly higher prices due to having a higher risk of merchandise, eployee’s health and willingness to work, etc from crime. And if the profx is attempting to say that people want to take advantage of black people because they are weaker economically it is only fair to bring up other reasons why the retailers might be demanding higher prices, and I’m waiting for an awnser but I probably won’t get it.
[/quote]
That’s because I don’t respect you, not because of any fear of answering you.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
It is interesting that every white guy in this thread seems to be avoiding the posts by other white guys who live in other countries who tell them they get similar responses when they are the minority.
You all just didn’t see this post or did you conveniently push it out of your minds?
“oh, well, let’s talk about economics because race is such a non-issue in this country because I have never experienced it”
I bet quite a few of you actually think you are witty.[/quote]
While it may not have been directly implied, I think it was generally understood that this thread is dealing with race in America.
Second, it has been said many times in this thread that race can very much be a factor on an individual basis. It looks like everybody here, white, black, hispanic, asain, has been in a situation where they were the minority and their own race was very much on their minds.
So let’s hear it Professor. How often do you think about your race today? How does this affect you? Why do you think about it so often? I don’t want answers about what is was like in the 70’s or 80’s. I want to know why you feel this way today. You keep disregarding any economics, so I don’t want to hear this as an answer. These are serious questions and I expect serious answers.
As to your story about the lady with young children asking if you were a doctor: I intentionally refrained from replying, as I wanted to see how it played out. My first impression after reading your story was, and I know this may be hard to believe, that she had had some bad experiences with doctor’s in the past, and simply didn’t realize that some doctors were nice people and easy to get along with.
You did not fit her expectation because you were good with the kids and thus she figured that you must not actually be a doctor, based on her preconceived notion that doctors are impersonal and poor at relating to children. I don’t think race or even size had anything to do with this.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
That’s because I don’t respect you, not because of any fear of answering you.[/quote]
But it is a worthwhile question regardless of your respect for the individual asking the question. Economics is where the answer to your question really lies. Economic law knows not the human perception of race (and as I have stated the notion of race is purely perceptual anyway).
The notion that a business owner would take advantage of the race of certain customers is very self-defeating (besides, there are few grocery stores that cater to only one race). The business owner is there to make a profit and if he priced too highly he would be out of business. There is a price where customers find it more beneficial to take the bus, for example, to another grocery store that charges less and business owners must figured out what those prices are. Do you consider this taking advantage of the laws of economics or racism?
The notion that a business owner would take advantage of the race of certain customers is very self-defeating (besides, there are few grocery stores that cater to only one race). The business owner is there to make a profit and if he priced too highly he would be out of business. There is a price where customers find it more beneficial to take the bus, for example, to another grocery store that charges less and business owners must figured out what those prices are. Do you consider this taking advantage of the laws of economics or racism?
To the business owner all customers are green.[/quote]
If you really believe this there is no point in further discussion. If you truly believe business owners would never take advantage of their target patrons (as if they are above this type of thing), you simply don’t live in reality with the rest of us.
No one has said that actions don’t have a basis in economics as it has already been stated many times that no one in this day and age could get away with BLATANT RACISM. That doesn’t change who is largely affected by these practices. It also doesn’t change the fact that SYSTEMIC RACISM exists as a result of many practices that could also be explained as geographic or economic concerns.
Just like in that post by the white guy in Asia, I am still waiting on you all to find any and all reasons besides the fact that he is white for that to occur.
For any of you to ignore his post as if this discussion is only based in America shows you all are grasping for straws.
Funny, but Bernard Hopkins just had a lot to say about this shit.
Bernard Hopkins stands by ‘white boy’ jibe
By Simon Hart
Last Updated: 2:05am GMT 10/02/2008
If Bernard Hopkins fights anything like he talks when he takes on Joe Calzaghe in Las Vegas on April 19 then their light-heavyweight contest is certain to go the distance. Asked last week to explain his controversial remark that he would “never lose to a white boy”, the veteran Philadelphian held forth for a full 15 minutes with an answer that ranged from sporting history, to boxing gyms in inner-city ghettos to the United States presidential campaign. But not once during his monologue did Hopkins admit that he was wrong to play the race card.
Hopkins, who served five years for robbery in the 1980s before turning his life around through boxing, may regret some things in his colourful life but calling the world super-middleweight champion a white boy is certainly not one of them.
While he sought to play down the race issue when he appeared alongside Wales’s favourite son at Planet Hollywood during his brief promotional visit to London, he was not quite so reticent in the more rarefied surroundings of the tea room of the Lanesborough Hotel.
His point was that he was a product of his harsh and racially segregated background and that racial division was embedded in American society, and particularly in American sport.
“People who deny that racism is everywhere are the dangerous ones because they just can’t see it,” he said. "If race doesn’t play a role in sport then I can bring up sport’s history.
"I can go back to Jesse Owens going over and competing against the Germans. I can go back to Bill Russell who played at Boston Garden and was called ‘nigger’ every time he ran down the court even though he had a Boston jersey on.
I can go back to Muhammad Ali in 1966 when he said that the Viet Cong never called him a nigger and that he couldn’t even eat and drink coffee in a New York City coffee shop.
“You might say that times have changed since then, but have they? Only the camouflage has changed. There are taboos now and it’s not the done thing to talk about race, but it is still there underneath. People just don’t have the courage to talk about it.”
Hopkins’ reasoning may explain his white boy jibe rather than justify it but you can’t knock the sophistication of his argument. The 43-year-old fighter, who ruled the middleweight division for almost 11 years and who has just four defeats and one draw on his 54-fight record, educated himself during his time in jail and is as good at mental sparring as he is at trading punches.
On the race for the White House, Hopkins believes his country is not ready to elect an African American and even predicts that Barack Obama could be assassinated if he wins “the championship”.
“I think that his life would be in dear jeopardy,” said Hopkins. “To have that much power in that position, the country is not ready for that. Historically, they weren’t ready for John F Kennedy because his views and his values about certain things riled a lot of people.”
Just to prove that he is no racist, he is hoping Hillary Clinton will become the next president.
"Having Bill and Hillary is like having two for one. You already have eight years of credibility with one. When Clinton was president there wasn’t a war, poor people were getting their cheques and the economy wasn’t like it is now.
“And I’m pretty sure that Bill Clinton got a lot of advice from Hillary. History always teaches us that a strong man must have a strong woman.”
And what does history teach us about the outcome of his clash with Calzaghe? “I destroy fighters,” he said. “I destroy their spirit and I destroy their soul because they never recover.”