[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
I guess it’s better to stereotype an entire culture and assume racism?
Professor X wrote:
Gee, if an entire culture controls and dominates pop culture, business and politics (like what sparked the Civil Rights movement), claiming THE SYSTEM is racist is how far off?
Please answer that.[/quote]
Which entire culture? Are you stereotyping all white people together as one culture? As in the white, Jewish guy in NYC and the white cowboy in Wyoming being part of some dominant white culture?
BTW, as to controlling pop culture, you’ve got to be kidding me - in music, TV, sports, etc., if you think in terms of “under” or “over” represented as compared to percentage of population, black Americans are overrepresented in pop culture. This isn’t good or bad - it just is, and it runs contra to your post above.
As for politics, you should blame the gerrymandered districts and the overwhelming Dem affiliation as to why blacks are underrepresented nationally (as opposed to any particular state or locality) with regard to elected (not appointed) political governing positions. One can actually measure those effects - as opposed to just believing they are the product of racism and assigning that as fact in the manner that people in Egypt assigned causation to Ra for the flooding of the Nile.
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
I said it was easier for me to ignore because I don’t choose to focus on it - and it’s less applicable to me as a white guy.
Professor X wrote:
I already wrote this earlier. That is why I am avoiding even responding to every single post. I have no time to waste trying to “teach” some white guys about how everyone isn’t white but since whites are still the majority, it just might help everyone else out if this fact was acknowledged because those in majority have the most effect on a system that still has remnants of racist acts, stereotypes and impressions.
No, I don’t have time for that at all. The only reason I am even responding to you is because I actually believe you think a little before you type.[/quote]
Why are you arguing the point then - particularly when you’re agreeing with what I said on its face (even if we disagree about the background)?
Minorities in the US don’t know what it’s like to be a white male; white males don’t know what it’s like to be a minority in the US. I don’t know what it’s like to be a woman; and my wife doesn’t know what it’s like to be me. This is belaboring the obvious.
If you want to discuss the system we have today and whether it makes sense to attribute causation to unseen and unmeasurable “racist remnants,” that’s another issue.
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
I grew up in the Bay Area in California, went to high school in Salt Lake City, UT, went to college in San Diego, CA, and grad school in Nashville, TN, and in each of those places I remember race being constantly brought up and focused upon - particularly in the manner I laid out in my original post. In the majority white school in Salt Lake City there were cultural celebrations for Tongans, Mexicans, black history month, Asians, etc.
Professor X wrote:
This is a bad thing?
Please answer this.[/quote]
Pointing out and celebrating differences is divisive on its face - it’s already human nature to focus on differences and be suspicious of different groups. The govI have no problem with cultural groups maintaining their own cultures - or even sharing them in private (as in not govt. sponsored) celebrations. I do think it’s not a good idea for the government to promote: “We’re different, and it’s based on race.” Much better, IMHO, for the government to emphasize common American culture and how we can come together.
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
And it’s not just in school - it’s the media and the culture generally. Newspapers, TV, internet boards on weightlifting sites - it’s not as if you can escape it.
Professor X wrote:
Excuse me…but BULLSHIT. You and me are about 2-3 years apart. I grew up not even seeing a black Barbie doll until the mid-80’s. Black cabbage patch kids were a “new thing” considering a well known doll company made all nationalities of dolls and made a killing…for the first time. I find it hard to feel sorry for your non-stop barrage of race focused media…especially since I doubt it was happening anywhere near the level you claim it was.[/quote]
Maybe, just maybe, the Bay Area, capital of liberal ex-hippies in CA, was a tad more focused on this stuff than the places in which you were growing up…
I don’t recall anything really about Barbies and Cabbage Patch Kids - not my cup of tea, and my little sister is 8 years younger than I am so she missed the Cabbage Patch phenomenon - I don’t recall she had any black Care Bears, but it seemed as if there sure were a lot of blue, pink and green ones. And some blue Smurfs. I guess small blue folks with tails were happy to have a role model…
Care to link any article or reference establishing that whichever doll company you’re referencing was the first to offer dolls other than white dolls?
And then there’s now, of course - apparently one can’t escape it on internet boards on weightlifting sites.
Of course, that’s all beside the point really - the point was more focused on various media and media-access points.
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
Quite frankly, even the positive-focused portrayals of race don’t do anything other than call attention to differences.
Professor X wrote:
Are you saying this didn’t need to happen in this country? It was ok that we had far fewer role models growing up who showed intelligence and determination? These issues were already so ingrained in a mostly white culture that the pendulum had to swing the other way for there to be any balance at all…yet you can’t see this?
What world are you living in?
Oh, wait.[/quote]
The United States of America - I’ve spent time living pretty much everywhere except the midwest and the deep South. And I’ve been lower middle class to upper middle class - not poor and not rich.
See what I wrote above on my opinions on emphasizing differences rather than similarities. I don’t exactly know where you got the idea I was talking about whether there were role models for minorities. Not that I believe one needs role models of a specific race or gender anyway - I think the fact people think they need them is another byproduct of having a culture that attempts to force people to think of and define themselves by race and gender categorizations.
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
And here’s the kicker - if you’re thinking about race all the time, are you going to be more, or less, likely to attribute any perceived discrimination you do suffer to race (irrespective of whether it was or wasn’t actually the cause)?
Professor X wrote:
How about, if you experience more racism, wouldn’t race be on your mind more?
Are you really about to hold the position that every black male in the country who perceives any level of racism is doing so because he can’t think as clearly as you?[/quote]
In a lot of cases, whether one is “experiencing racism” is in the eye of the beholder. That was my point on the murky causation. For example, say you have a 19-year-old black guy dressed in a hoodie who gets pulled over during school hours by a cop when he wasn’t speeding or really doing anything else. The cop might be biased against young drivers, might be biased against people who wear hoodies (he might think this is a class or culture signal) or might be biased against black people - or he might have thought this was a kid playing hooky from high school. Just because the driver thinks he got pulled over because the cop was racist doesn’t mean it’s true - but the driver will experience it as true.
And my point was that thinking about race all the time and getting taught that society is fraught with racism and the man is constantly trying to keep you down will make a racial minority in the USA more (rather than less, which I’m arguing would be the case if we focused more on commonalities) likely to attribute any negative experiences he undergoes to racism.
[quote]ProfessorX wrote:
Wow…and people talk about MY ego.[/quote]
And I can’t imagine why…