[quote]bro1989 wrote:
One problem I see with short workouts is that conditioning might suffer.[/quote]
Conditioning should bot be built by lifting… well more specifically you should design a workout specifically to get a conditioning effect. Met con should be developed by using specific workouts for it.
Furthermore… I’ve done 2-3 hours workout and still had VERY poor metabolic conditioning. It’s not the duration of the workout but the type of effort.
You will be MUCH more metabolically challenged by doing a 5 minutes MMA round than a 2 hours powerlifting workout.
Really, improving met con does not require more than 25 minutes… in fact if you can last longer than 25 minutes when doing metcon work, you are not going at it hard enough.
[/quote]
Thank you for the reply, CT. Maybe I have been brainwashed into believing the old school boxing conditioning dogma that “more is more”.
I will test your new training system once it is released and give you my honest feedback then.
Is it going to be published as an article on the front page or here on the forum?
I think deep down we all know this but we are all the same. Stimulus junkies! I can tell people to make small changes to their diet and training but when it comes to my own stuff I attempt to put in 110% effort and get less results. It is the same as the “Never chase fatigue, chase performance” from a year or two ago.
We are not satisfied with our development so we think we have to redouble our efforts and out-train everyone we know!
Thibs, you are in strange position, you know and understand all this, you have great strength and an incredible physique if I may say so, yet you are one of us - not satisfied, always pushing for more! It is a blessing and a curse!
Thibs, you are in strange position, you know and understand all this, you have great strength and an incredible physique if I may say so, yet you are one of us - not satisfied, always pushing for more! It is a blessing and a curse![/quote]
I couldn’t have put it into better words. I’m no different than anybody on the forums… I want the same things, have the same passion and the same issues. If anything, those issues allowed me to learn a lot about training and to know what to do. BUT it also makes me want to do more… and since I ‘‘know so much’’ I can convince myself that ‘‘If I think about it, it must be okay’’.
CT - longer term have you observed that the body never “adapts” such that it can not only tolerate more and more stimulus/work but also gey incremental gains from the volume? Structural adaptations seem to make everything hazier because I hear (granted, anectodally) of trainees doing more and more work and looking shredded and they’ve consistently done this for years. On the flipside, I think physique wise my experiences verify what you’re saying…
I’m ironically getting LESS gains doing your system and then throwing in shitload of auxulialry work (even all submaximal) than if I just did your workout and left. But I want to believe in the tooth fairy and think if I keep this up, over the months my body may adapt and compound gains…
Agree with sigil and the others as well.I have been forcing myself to do the layers with less added acc. work.It’s a constant battle for me for the reasons stated above but I think It’s starting to sink In.It’s hard for me to end the session when I feel on top of the world and full of energy as dumb as that sounds.Even though when I do I actually look and feel better,crazy.
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
CT - longer term have you observed that the body never “adapts” such that it can not only tolerate more and more stimulus/work but also gey incremental gains from the volume? Structural adaptations seem to make everything hazier because I hear (granted, anectodally) of trainees doing more and more work and looking shredded and they’ve consistently done this for years. On the flipside, I think physique wise my experiences verify what you’re saying…
I’m ironically getting LESS gains doing your system and then throwing in shitload of auxulialry work (even all submaximal) than if I just did your workout and left. But I want to believe in the tooth fairy and think if I keep this up, over the months my body may adapt and compound gains…[/quote]
I’m the same way. I periodically try to do more ‘‘stuff’’… which kills my progress. Then go back to being a minimalist and I grow a lot more.
Thibs, you are in strange position, you know and understand all this, you have great strength and an incredible physique if I may say so, yet you are one of us - not satisfied, always pushing for more! It is a blessing and a curse![/quote]
I couldn’t have put it into better words. I’m no different than anybody on the forums… I want the same things, have the same passion and the same issues. If anything, those issues allowed me to learn a lot about training and to know what to do. BUT it also makes me want to do more… and since I ‘‘know so much’’ I can convince myself that ‘‘If I think about it, it must be okay’’.[/quote]
This is also why your insight is so valuable to us.
so, the million dollar questions are:where, and how do you draw the line?? when do you stop the session? etc
sput has laid out some rules for himself that sound pretty good, but, would that effectively work for most?
@Maddogg…very well put! I’m guilty …I decided today that I’m going to eliminate most of my assistance work…and think of it as a spice…a little if needed goes a long way, but lets not ruin the main dish …I think I’ll keep my DSB dead stop row & a front squat, maybe a biceps exercise & that’s it…focus on what really matters the main lifts because they give us the most value for our training resources…I had the thought earlier today that maybe I should set a low point HRV score & if I don’t hit that or I’m not green then take the extra day of recovery & dominate the main lift the next day. Just some thoughts.
GREAT observation. Correct me if I’m wrong: Didn’t Roman notice that it was intensity of load that accounted for gains in higher level weightlifters rather than volume? That would corroborate your observations / experiences and like you said, maybe even the HIT guys.
GREAT observation. Correct me if I’m wrong: Didn’t Roman notice that it was intensity of load that accounted for gains in higher level weightlifters rather than volume? That would corroborate your observations / experiences and like you said, maybe even the HIT guys. ;-)[/quote]
Correct. Roman calculated the intensity/stress level of a program by the number of reps above 80% being performed in the session.
[quote]sput79 wrote: @CT: Is that another way of saying with The Layer System above 80% would be considered a work set (excluding extended sets HDL)?[/quote]
Not at all. Roman was an olympic lifting coach and the 80% threshold referred to the olympic lifts and their variations. And really, it was just a way to chart training stress over the weeks. Roman found that lifts above 80% on the big lift had a marked demand increase over sets below 80%. But remember that Olympic lifters use 1-5 reps per set 90% of the time. So even loads of 70% (for example) were done for 1-5 reps, which represents low-stress work.
Hey CT, I have a question about this layering thing and didn’t want to create a separate thread about. Was hoping you could answer it in here.
The gym I go to has these yoga classes and there’s some real nice chatte, if you know what I mean, so naturally I’m into yoga now.
Where exactly does yoga fit into all of this layering stuff? Is it better to do some yoga before or after a workout? Do you recommend trying to get yoga in strictly on off-days? The class I attended that day was focusing mostly on “opening the hips up”, and since I had already planned on lifting that day anyways, I just hit the weights right after the class. Since it was geared more toward lower-body stretches I didn’t think my upper-body pressing workout would be hampered but I noticed that even though I felt really great and refreshed, I was about ten pounds weaker on every lift than I normally would be.
Normally I can tell beforehand if I’m going to have a “weak” workout that day, but this particular day I felt great before and after the yoga. Do you think that yoga can have this sort of down-regulating effect, and if so, should I plan accordingly?
I found it was hard for me to remove assistant lifts at first, after all I started training with typical bodybuilder style workouts using a lot of different exercises and high volume. So when I did switch to your programs like HP Mass & the current Layering system it seemed like I didnt do enough work, but the results were much greater than anything I have tried before and now I usually I finish my workouts in under 45 mins.
I still do some assistance work likebiceps, lats, grip work & front squats (Mainly because I love to squat) but its never over the top. So I thank you CT for the awesome coaching & Inspiring the way I currently train!
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I think that with the right stimulus intensity we need a lot less mechanical work than we first imagined. I believe that the “need” to do more comes from not reaching the necessary level of intensity to stimulate gains during your main work.
In a sense the HIT/Heavy Duty guys had the right idea (I never thought I’d say that) but the wrong application.[/quote]
As a follow up here, I hit a massive PR today on incline press in all 3 layers (better ramp, more reps on clusters, and a huge PR on the extended set HDL)
I felt like King Kong. Like nothing could stop me… But I only did the prescribed sets left. I have felt amazing all day. Amped up, Jacked, Full of energy. Without the prescribed sets of the layers I probably would have used today to “really go for it” and run myself into the ground. Instead, I hit 3 PR’s (max, cluster, and HDL) and hit the door, and have felt great all day.
[quote]sput79 wrote:
I read somewhere where your testosterone levels peak at 27 minutes and at 45 minutes they come back to baseline where they started & after that it’s all down hill…just a thought [/quote]
I have heard this too. I’m always wondering where they measure this time frame from. It would have to be starting at first work set. If you include warming up or ramping, this could be ten minutes into the workout.
