Thib's Random Thought of the Day

Christian_Thibaudeau · January 26, 2010, 8:11am

[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
That’s really interesting. So the core and shoulder work I can see helping with the lifts…Do you know what it is about 1-arm lifts in particular that would help more than other exercises in activation, allowing one to lift more weight in a given session?[/quote]

well, when I was doing research for my latest book I found some studies that showed that unstable training (e.g. push-ups on a medicine ball) increased muscle activation. Although the force output was lower it did show some ‘‘potential’’ as a way to activate the nervous system.

It worked, it was somewhat effective at getting the muscles and CNS ready to do some real strength work.

It stands to reason that one-arm lifts have the same ‘‘unstable’’ component to them, BUT while having a significant force production. So these lifts would activate the CNS via two pathways.

It might also be due in part to the fact that movements requiring a greater intermuscular coordination ‘‘wake-up’’ the CNS more, and one-arm explosive lifts DO require quite a bit of coordination.

Christian_Thibaudeau · January 26, 2010, 11:27am

JANUARY 26TH

ADVANCED PROGRESSION

I’m often asked how to progress from workout to workout when utilizing autoregulation.

The easy answer is that if you autoregulate properly, start with the proper weight, always try to dominate the weight, work up to your max force point of the day… progression should take care of itself.

The truth of the matter is that the body doesn’t progress in a linear fashion. Normally you progress in bursts. On one workout you might be able to work up to 20-30lbs more than before, then stall for a few weeks, even having to take a step back from time to time. The important thing is that on any given day you are attempting to reach the highest point you can, ON THAT DAY.

If you do things properly training and nutrition-wise you can’t help but improve over time. Previous maxes will start to feel easier and faster and new maxes will be established.

However that doesn’t mean that you’ll be able to keep adding weight to the bar forever. After all, simply adding 5lbs to the bar (2.5lbs per side… almost nothing) would yield a yearly improvement of 260lbs. 520lbs within 2 years, 780lbs in 3, etc. Soon there would be an iron shortage from all the weight plates being used across the country!

It is not realistic to expect that you will make gains of this sort. Once you reach the advanced level, gains of even 20-30lbs in one year on a major lift becomes an accomplishment. Does that mean that we can’t progress from week to week? After all, if our lifts only go up once every 6-8 weeks does that mean that we are only improving our body at that pace too?

No! We only feel this way because deep down inside we associate gaining muscle with adding more weight to the bar. In a sense that is somewhat true. Adding more weight to the bar does contribute to gaining size. But it is not so much the increase in weight that leads to growth, but rather the fact that the weight increase leads to a higher WORKLOAD at a high intensity (work above 70%).

For example, if you are able to go from:

125 x 3, 155 x 3, 185 x 3, 205 x 3, 235 x 3

to

130 x 3, 160 x 3, 190 x 3, 210 x 3, 240 x 3

The workload is increased by roughly 25lbs over the workout. And the workload at a high intensity (above 70%) by around 10-15lbs. The later is what helps stimulate growth.

Why 70%… in the former Soviet Union it was establish that olympic lifts at or above 80% were considered high intensity lifts as they were similar to maximal lifts as far as muscle activation goes.

Many coaches calculated the intensity level of a program according to the number of lifts performed above 80%.

For ‘‘regular’’ lifts I feel that 75% is more adequate… this is in part due to the nature of the lifts versus the olympic lifts (you can’t grind an olympic lift) and the fact that the later are basically devoid of an eccentric phase, which allows for a greater intensity to be used.

So a good way to progress once you are advanced and can’t add weight to the bar on a regular basis would be to increase the number of lifts in the 70-85% range during your workouts.

If you are already ramping up and utilizing the perfect rep principles this can be accomplished by a technique called MICRO-RAMPING.

Micro-ramping is my own favorite way of increasing the intensity of a program, but it is best used by advanced lifters: You progress from set to set via very small jumps. In a normal ramp you increase the weight by 20-30lbs from set to set. With micro-ramping you make jumps of around 5-10lbs (so 2.5 - 5lbs per side on a barbell). TECHNICALLY you would only need to start micro-ramping when you reach a weight that is around 70% of your maximum. But I personally prefer to start at the 60% mark, or even at the beginning of a ramp. It wont fatigue you more, it will just cause more activation.

When using micro-ramping you should:

Reach the same top weight as you would with normal ramping (even higher is sometimes possible). If you can’t reach a weight as heavy as normal, then you are not advanced enough to use micro-ramping as your method of progression, or you are not doing it properly.
Take about the same time to do a micro-ramp (9-15 sets) as you would a normal ramp of 5-7 sets. Remember that the amount of rest you take between sets should be just long enough to allow you to perform properly. Due to the small increase you should be able to take shorter rest periods. This is easy to understand at the beginning of a micro-ramp: the loads are relatively light, but you will find out that interestingly as the workout progress you do not need to increase the rest periods as the weight gets heavier… interesting neurological phenomenon.

One way to plan a training cycle could be like this:

WEEKS 1-2: Normal ramping (20-30lbs jumps) working up over 5-7 sets
WEEKS 3-4: Micro-ramping I (10lbs jumps) working up over roughly 9-12 sets
WEEKS 5-6: Micro-ramping II (5lbs jumps) working up over roughly 13-16 sets

Then you would change the program.

3r1cJH · January 26, 2010, 10:25pm

Thanks for all this Christian.

A question I’ve been trying to figure out lately is: how intelligent, or even intuitive, is the nervous system with regard to ramping? Could greater activation during the ramp be achieved by using percentage ramping versus ramping with a fixed weight amount? For example

A. Ramping using 20lb increases in weight:
150 → 170 = 13.3%
170 → 190 = 11.8%
190 → 210 = 10.5%
210 → 230 = 9.5%
230 → 250 = 8.7%
250 → 270 = 8.0%

B. Ramping using 10% increases in weight:
150 x 10% = 165
165 x 10% = 182 (*use 180 unless you have 1 pound micro plates)
182 x 10% = 200
200 x 10% = 220
220 x 10% = 242 (*use 240)
242 x 10% = 266 (*use 265)

With example A, would the nervous system be able to infer that with each set, a comparatively lower increase in force production is required to overcome the load? I realize that trying to lift as explosively as possible will allow the training effect to occur, but might percentage ramping prime the nervous system to anticipate (and therefore allow) a greater force production?

Similarly, if using percentage ramping beginning with small increases (aka 5% jumps) and then gradually upping the percentages per set (ie. 5%, 7%, 10%, 14%, 19%), might this lead to greater nervous system “acceleration” for maximum activation for a max rep set? I suppose this method would, in terms of percentage jumps, be the opposite pattern of using a fixed weight method of ramping. It could become:

C. Ramping using increasing percentages:
150 x 5% = 157.5 (*use 160)
157.7 x 7% = 168.5 (*use 170)
168.5 x 10% = 185
185 x 14% = 211 (*use 210)
211 x 19% = 251 (*use 250)

Using this example, would the CNS be primed (tricked?) for a 25% greater demand in force production which could be utilized to maximize neural drive on a max rep set with lighter weight?

system · January 26, 2010, 11:46pm

cool/interesting idea. After the 6 weeks I guess you would deload and start over with hopefully heavier weights than you started the last time?

Mutsanah · January 26, 2010, 11:53pm

[quote]3r1cJH wrote:
Thanks for all this Christian.

A question I’ve been trying to figure out lately is: how intelligent, or even intuitive, is the nervous system with regard to ramping? Could greater activation during the ramp be achieved by using percentage ramping versus ramping with a fixed weight amount? For example

A. Ramping using 20lb increases in weight:
150 → 170 = 13.3%
170 → 190 = 11.8%
190 → 210 = 10.5%
210 → 230 = 9.5%
230 → 250 = 8.7%
250 → 270 = 8.0%

B. Ramping using 10% increases in weight:
150 x 10% = 165
165 x 10% = 182 (*use 180 unless you have 1 pound micro plates)
182 x 10% = 200
200 x 10% = 220
220 x 10% = 242 (*use 240)
242 x 10% = 266 (*use 265)

With example A, would the nervous system be able to infer that with each set, a comparatively lower increase in force production is required to overcome the load? I realize that trying to lift as explosively as possible will allow the training effect to occur, but might percentage ramping prime the nervous system to anticipate (and therefore allow) a greater force production?

Similarly, if using percentage ramping beginning with small increases (aka 5% jumps) and then gradually upping the percentages per set (ie. 5%, 7%, 10%, 14%, 19%), might this lead to greater nervous system “acceleration” for maximum activation for a max rep set? I suppose this method would, in terms of percentage jumps, be the opposite pattern of using a fixed weight method of ramping. It could become:

C. Ramping using increasing percentages:
150 x 5% = 157.5 (*use 160)
157.7 x 7% = 168.5 (*use 170)
168.5 x 10% = 185
185 x 14% = 211 (*use 210)
211 x 19% = 251 (*use 250)

Using this example, would the CNS be primed (tricked?) for a 25% greater demand in force production which could be utilized to maximize neural drive on a max rep set with lighter weight?[/quote]

Seems to me just the opposite would be advantageous - goal for CNS is to have majority of work in the 70-85% of 1RM area. Bigger jumps in beginning and smaller as you approach 85 to even 90%.

toomuchcep · January 27, 2010, 6:57pm

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
JANUARY 21ST

Here is a good pulling workout that I did yesterday. Ramping was used with all the exercises.

A1. Deadlift - 3 reps
90 seconds rest

A2. Power shrugs/low pull from the hang 5 reps
90 seconds rest

A3. Power clean 2 reps
120 seconds rest

Performed as a ‘‘circuit’’. The circuit was performed with weights starting at around 60% of max on the deadlift and clean. The weight for the power shrugs was 40lbs more than the power clean. We ramped up adding 5-8% per set (did 7 circuits).

[/quote]

I went to the gym and decided to do this. Stupidly forgot however it was to be performed as a circuit. After 9 sets of deadlifts and 7 power shrugs I was wondering how the hell you were supposed to be explosive on the power cleans. The circuit approach makes much more sense now. And im guessing the powercleans ramp up your CNS aswell meaning potentially reaching a higher MFP on the deadlifts than you usually would.

Osmosis · January 27, 2010, 10:29pm

T.C.

I’ve noticed that the Perfect Rep protocol and the Westside method (Max Effort & Dynamic Effort) seem to be based on the same science. The Max Effort day’s purpose was to max out on a exercise “for that day”, which may or may not be a PR. Also, a lot of Westsiders have said the Dynamic Effort day was just another Max Effort day but with lighter weight and explosive execution. The Westside Dynamic Effort usually rotated between 50-55-60% and stayed there.

The Perfect Rep protocol seems to have combined the ME & DE into a single unit by beginning with the 60% and transitioning into heavier weights but not at the expense of dynamic effort. It’s more like a dynamic max effort at every workout.

Mondy · January 27, 2010, 10:56pm

[quote]Osmosis wrote:
T.C.

I’ve noticed that the Perfect Rep protocol and the Westside method (Max Effort & Dynamic Effort) seem to be based on the same science. The Max Effort day’s purpose was to max out on a exercise “for that day”, which may or may not be a PR. Also, a lot of Westsiders have said the Dynamic Effort day was just another Max Effort day but with lighter weight and explosive execution. The Westside Dynamic Effort usually rotated between 50-55-60% and stayed there.

The Perfect Rep protocol seems to have combined the ME & DE into a single unit by beginning with the 60% and transitioning into heavier weights but not at the expense of dynamic effort. It’s more like a dynamic max effort at every workout.[/quote]

Its C.T. not T.C. btw.

sam21 · January 28, 2010, 8:49am

coach what would like a spec program for overhead strength for olympic style weightlifting?

Osmosis · January 30, 2010, 5:54am

Oops. I don’t know what I put CT.

Please don’t take my post as a negative criticism of the Perfect Rep protocol. I think it’s great.

It’s hard to convince fellow lifters to lift powerfully/explosively. Years of hearing slow and controlled from the fitness culture has eliminated their ability to power through a repetition. I admit I fell for some of it too in order to complete the number of reps that were just too high. I was basically conserving energy to complete the number of reps.

So, now by using implementing the Perfect Rep protocol I get to lift heavier and blast out the reps. Now that I look back at my 20 plus years of lifting, I’ve always gravitated toward lower reps and that’s when I gotten the best results.

PB_Andy · January 31, 2010, 6:15am

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
JANUARY 14TH

TRAINING FOR STRENGTH-ENDURANCE

A lot of sports rely on the capacity not only to produce a high level of force, but to maintain that level of force production for a relatively long period of time.

Sports like basketball, hockey, MMA, boxing even football (short rest between bouts of high intensity work) all require that the participant has a high level of strength-endurance.

Traditionally this capacity is trained using higher rep sets with relatively short rest intervals. This is a mistake because it neglects one important portion of the strength-endurance capacity: STRENGTH!

Yes, endurance, or more importantly the capacity to repeat an intense effort repeatedly or for a long period of time, is important. But strength is actually the key component.

Let’s take an extreme example… let’s say that our muscles have to produce 200lbs of force in a pressing movement for 2 minutes. Well, if you can’t even produce that 200lbs of force ONCE, there is no way that you will maintain it for 2 minutes!!!

The approach I prefer is to use a circuit of 3-5 basic movements, performed for sets of 2-3 reps with your max force weight (around 75-85% depending on your level). Go from one exercise to the next with as little rest as humanly possible. Obviously the exercises should hit different structures or motor patterns. For this approach I like either a whole body approach or maybe an antagonist one.

For example:

WHOLE BODY A
A. Front squat
B. Push press
C. RDL
D. Chin-up

WHOLE B
A. Power clean
B. Bench press
C. Back squat
D. Barbell row

You perform 2-3 reps per set with 75-85% of your maximum, resting as little as possible (shoot for 15-20 sec. between exercises) and stop AN EXERCISE when you are no longer dominating the weight.

For example, it is possible that your push press gets dropped because you are no longer explosive, but that the other 3 exercises are still good. You simply keep rotating through the remaining 3 and eliminate the movements one by one as you stop being dominant on each one.
[/quote]
A bit late, but this reminds me of your Reality Mass Show Circuit article. That thing kicked my ass.

Heracles_rocks · February 1, 2010, 9:17pm

CT, fwiw i tried one armed pushpresses and db swings in my warmup last week and it really did prime my cns for more work(even though i got some weird looks from what i was doing). Thanks for the great info. Keep up the great work coach and happy february.

MikeTheBear · February 1, 2010, 9:44pm

Anyone else think that these random thoughts are better than some articles we’ve had on here?

MikeTheBear · February 2, 2010, 3:18am

If I may be so bold as to offer my own random thoughts here:

[quote]Osmosis wrote:
It’s hard to convince fellow lifters to lift powerfully/explosively. Years of hearing slow and controlled from the fitness culture has eliminated their ability to power through a repetition. I admit I fell for some of it too in order to complete the number of reps that were just too high. I was basically conserving energy to complete the number of reps.[/quote]

Part of this comes from safety concerns. Is it a good idea to take a sedentary person and start them off with explosive movements? Problem not. But after some initial training and familiarization, which should not take too long, there is no reason why such a trainee can’t eventually go to explosive movements. Unfortunately, the “explosive is dangerous” rule is so ingrained into the average personal trainer’s head that most trainees never progress beyond the “slow and controlled” stage. This is probably one of the reasons why (warning, I’m about to use the “C” word) Crossfit has gained in popularity. CF is not afraid to use Olympic lifts and other explosive movements such as swings in their workouts. People see renewed results, and CF looks like genius.

From a bodybuilding perspective, BBers like to “feel the muscle working.” From what I understand, some of that can be important for training lagging muscle groups. But BBers like to feel all of their muscles being worked, and moving the weight slowly allows a trainee to “feel” the muscle. Conversely, moving the weight explosively doesn’t provide the same feedback. In fact, if I execute a snatch correctly, the weight feels light and seems to pop overhead. Same for the clean and jerk. If an Olympic lift feels heavy, then I’m doing something wrong. So, for purposes of explosive lifting, not feeling the muscles being worked means you’re doing it right. This is counter-intuitive for many people.

This is the most important lesson you’ve learned. Figure out what works for you and don’t worry what others think. So many times on here I read posts criticizing training methods with “But that’s not what pro bodybuilders do.” In a way, I’m surprised that no one has nade this argument in response to the perfect rep and the whole I, Bodybuilder system, but I guess that shows just how much credibility CT has. I could give a rat’s ass what pro BBers do. I know what works for me. The Olympic lifts combined with a few key assistance exercises done heavy and for low reps work for me. Full body training works for me. Kettlebell snatches work for me in terms of conditioning. Biceps curls put me to sleep. If someone doesn’t like my program, fine, don’t do it. I don’t care. But don’t tell me that my program “won’t work” because no pro BBers follow it. That’s a logical fallacy.

flightposite · February 1, 2010, 11:44pm

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
Anyone else think that these random thoughts are better than some articles we’ve had on here?[/quote]

X2 i have really been enjoying this thread. thanks CT.

Christian_Thibaudeau · February 2, 2010, 12:46am

[quote]Heracles_rocks wrote:
CT, fwiw i tried one armed pushpresses and db swings in my warmup last week and it really did prime my cns for more work(even though i got some weird looks from what i was doing). Thanks for the great info. Keep up the great work coach and happy february. [/quote]

No doubt about that. I now start every single workout with at least one single-arm lift.

Christian_Thibaudeau · February 2, 2010, 1:03am

FEBRUARY 1ST

THE PUSH-PULL SPEC CYCLE

The following workout is one that I used (still use in fact) with a female powerlifter preparing for a push-pull meet. I find it to be a very effective way to bring up the bench press and deadlift simultaneously.

For those who enjoy a minimalist, hardcore basics routine, it also fits the bill quite well. It is built around 5 weekly workouts… well 4 are actual workouts and 1 is a contest simulation day.

Each lift is trained at every workout but hard only once a week. The other sessions are just to keep ‘‘in the groove’’ and work on technique and acceleration, a concept that I learned from my days as an Olympic lifter.

DAY 1 - HARD BENCH PRESS
A. Max effort bench exercise (a bench movement that is similar to the bench press, but not the competition bench itself*)
Week 1: Work up to a max triple
Week 2: Work up to a max double
Week 3: Work up to a max double, than 3 x 3 with 10% less than the max double
Week 4: Work up to a max single

Could be a 2,3,4 or 5 boards press, floor press, pin press, decline press, incline press, close-grip bench, etc. Stick with the same movement for 4 weeks.

B. Competition style bench, volume work
Week 1: Double ramping sets of 5 reps (perform 2 sets with each weight, go up by around 10% every two sets, start at 60%)
Week 2: Micro-ramping sets of 5 reps (Start at 60%, add only 5lbs per set until you reach your max force point)
Week 3: Normal ramping sets of 5 reps (Start at 60%, add 10% per set, work up to max force point)
Week 4: 3 sets of 3 reps with 70%

C. Deadlift, technique and speed work
3 sets of 3 reps with 70-75%

DAY 2 - HARD DEADLIFT
A. Max effort deadlift exercise (a deadlift movement that is similar to the deadlift, but not the competition lift itself*)
Week 1: Work up to a max triple
Week 2: Work up to a max double
Week 3: Work up to a max double, than 3 x 3 with 10% less than the max double
Week 4: Work up to a max single

Could be a pin pull below the knees, pin pull above the kness, sumo deadlift (if your deadlift is conventional style), conventional deadlift (if your competition style is sumo), snatch grip deadlift, deadlift on a podium, etc.

B. Competition style deadlift, volume work
Week 1: Double ramping sets of 5 reps (perform 2 sets with each weight, go up by around 10% every two sets, start at 60%)
Week 2: Micro-ramping sets of 5 reps (Start at 60%, add only 5lbs per set until you reach your max force point)
Week 3: Normal ramping sets of 5 reps (Start at 60%, add 10% per set, work up to max force point)
Week 4: 3 sets of 3 reps with 70%

C. Bench press, technique and speed work
3 sets of 3 reps with 70-75%

DAY 3 - BENCH PRESS ASSISTANCE WORK
A. Floor press
Week 1: Ramping sets of 6 reps
Week 2: Ramping sets of 4 reps
Week 3: Ramping sets of 5 reps
Week 4: Ramping sets of 3 reps

B. Top half pin press
Week 1: Ramping sets of 6 reps
Week 2: Ramping sets of 4 reps
Week 3: Ramping sets of 5 reps
Week 4: Ramping sets of 3 reps

C. Push press
Week 1: Ramping sets of 6 reps
Week 2: Ramping sets of 4 reps
Week 3: Ramping sets of 5 reps
Week 4: Ramping sets of 3 reps

D. Deadlift, technique and speed work
3 sets of 3 reps with 75%

DAY 4 - DEADLIFT ASSISTANCE WORK
A. Deadlift on a podium
Week 1: Ramping sets of 6 reps
Week 2: Ramping sets of 4 reps
Week 3: Ramping sets of 5 reps
Week 4: Ramping sets of 3 reps

B. Top half pin pull
Week 1: Ramping sets of 6 reps
Week 2: Ramping sets of 4 reps
Week 3: Ramping sets of 5 reps
Week 4: Ramping sets of 3 reps

C. Power clean from the hang
Week 1: Ramping sets of 6 reps
Week 2: Ramping sets of 4 reps
Week 3: Ramping sets of 5 reps
Week 4: Ramping sets of 3 reps

D. Bench press, technique and speed work
3 sets of 3 reps with 75%

DAY 5 - COMPETITION SIMULATION
A. Bench press
Work up to maximum

B. Deadlift
Work up to maximum

The ideal schedule is:

DAY 1
DAY 2
OFF
DAY 3
DAY 4
OFF
DAY 5
OFF
Start over

redkevin79 · February 2, 2010, 1:28am

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
Anyone else think that these random thoughts are better than some articles we’ve had on here?[/quote]

Haha, I was just thinking that this thread as well as the ‘new training questions’ thread are like crack. I was going through withdrawal over the last couple days!

CT, Thanks you for taking the time to post this stuff almost everyday.

No derail intended.

AtleticoMadrid · February 2, 2010, 2:01am

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

I like these movements for EME:

push press
shoulder width upright row to the sternum
power shrugs
1-arm DB curl, bracing yourself with the free hand
1-arm DB hammer curl, bracing yourself (holding on to a post)
1-arm DB front raise, bracing yourself
1-arm DB rowing, free hand on your knee
Bent over power barbell rowing; bar starts on the floor, use a slight lower back action to get it started
[/quote]

Thib,

For the 1-arm DB curl, hammer curl, and front raise, is the bracing what allows you to use a bit of added load, or are you also using a slight bit of body English when performing these?

I also wanted to ask you about one arm lifts and activation. You mentioned you like using 1 or 2 explosive one arm movements at the beginning of a session. While not explosive, where would 1-arm lifts like 1-arm barbell curls best fit? They certainly require a ton of stabilization but are neither explosive, nor do they allow as much load as more “standard” curling movements. Just curious how you treat these in your present lines of thinking and programming.

ironshaolin · February 2, 2010, 2:06am

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
FEBRUARY 1ST