Thib's Q&A - Up to the End of May

Training
161

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Coach,

I am EXTREMELY interested in using your current diet strategie. I am following Poliquins diet strategies, but keen to give this a try from the good feedback.

Now, I am currently fixing my thyroid and in a fat loss phase, whilst been very insulin resistant, so no carbs. Currently 14.5% bf @ 205.5lbs

I typically train at 7am, so my current diet:
Meat and nuts breakfast
Train 1 hr later, pwo shake
Pwo meal 1 hr later
And 4-5 other meals etc.

I get measured weekly(Sats), so plan on starting this approach as of Sunday. Now, reading your setup, would the below be along the lines of what you recommend, because I am a little confueed.

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Meal 1: 20-30g HC
[/quote]

Fine

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Meal 2: 300g red meat and nuts 30 mins later(Pre workout 1 hr before) [/quote]

No no no no
 you want fast-absorbed protein here. Red meat, especially eaten with nuts is way too slow.

Egg whites or pork tenderloins would be a smarter option.

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Meal 3: During workout - 30g BCAA [/quote]

No no no no
 although I once recommended this approach myself, recent studies have shown that BCAAs are more effective when consumed 30-60 minutes prior to your session.

DURING your session you should be consuming casein hydrolysate. By itself it is not optimal, Anaconda will have several other incredients making it more effective, but casein hydrolysate is the big impact thing during your workout.

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Meal 4: 30g HC (Post workout) [/quote]

Fine

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Meal 5: 30g HC (1 hr Post workout)[/quote]

Fine

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Meal 6: 300g white meat and green veggies
Meal 7: 30g HC
Meal 8: 300g red meat and green veggies[/quote]

That’s fine, but there should be at least 2 hours (preferably 3) between meal 6 and 7.

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
This equates to 300g protein(which is less than Im on now)

[/quote]

The actual amount isn’t that important, the type and timing of protein will create more of an anabolic response than if you were consuming 400-500g of other less effective proteins.

162

[quote]Pickles wrote:
CT,

Discussions have been really interesting lately, good to see that there is still so much to learn!!

What would you recomend for a ‘low carber’ if waking up at 5am and training at 7am?

Currently:
5am - 5g Leucine, 30g Milk Protein & 30g Peanut butter
6:30am - 20g BCAA, 5g Creatine & Workout Fuel
7:00am - (during Training) 20g Whey Protein Hydrolysate
8:00am - 5g Creatine and Surge or 20g WPH & 20g Glycine

I’d guess now you’d recomend Whey at 5am, but being low carb what should I have with it?
and how long should you wait after a meal containing fat before taking Workout fuel?

Many Thanks[/quote]

Actually your schedule is pretty darn good, except for breakfast which is not ideal, but not that bad either.

  • Your BCAA and workout fuel timing is sound

  • Whey protein hydrolysate is a very good ‘during workout’ protein if casein hydrolysate is not available, just make sure to dilute it a lot to improve absorbability.

  • Post-workout is decent. But I would recommend one of these three options:

OPTION 1 (if you are on a strict low-carbs diet)
0.3g of whey hydrolysate (casein hydrolysate would be even better) per pound
0.1g of glycine per pound
5g leucine
5g creatine

OPTION 2 (if you are on a lower carbs diet, but not zero carbs)
1 scoop SURGE RECOVERY + 0.1g of whey/casein hydrolysate per pound
0.1g of glycine per pound
5g leucine
5g creatine

OPTION 3 (if you are not on a low carbs diet)
2 scoops SURGE RECOVERY
5g creatine

As for breakfast, remember, at that time you want fast absorption to create an anabolic spike that will stop catabolism from the overnight fast.

So start with 20-30g of either whey or casein hydrolysate and 5g leucine.

20-30 minutes later have an all egg whites omelette (6-8 egg whites) and you can add 3g of fish oil.

163

[quote]benmoore wrote:
Coach,

I ran your regressive keto cycle not too long ago
 dropped about 6.5kg but only 2% bodyfat and a LOT of strength.

Training was 3 full body sessions running an ABA type split of

A:
Horizontal push
Deadlift
Horizontal pull
Ab work

B:
Vertical pull
Squat
Vertical push
Ab work

Everything pretty much in the 4 sets of 4-8 (with 4-8RM loading) and 2-3 min rest periods.

No energy systems work, just some added NEPA walks occasionally when losses stalled. I followed the plan to a tee but really wasnt happy with my results. I realise I must have made a massive mistake somewhere![/quote]

Not enough volume of training, your body had no reason to hold on to its muscle since so little was asked of it.

164

Thibs, for the solid protein meals during the new CH/leucine pulse, are you suggesting that pork tenderloin and egg whites are the fastest to be digested (which I beleive is what we are after with this approach)? Is there any other solid proteins that can be eaten that are digested almost as fast, or would it be more beneficial to start using more egg whites and pork tenderloin?

I really hope this all gets covered in an upcoming article or in addition to your program(s) coming out, it sounds great!!!

165

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
CallMeClark wrote:
Hey Christian, got a quick one for ya. In terms of a bulk, for a meso-endo, would you prescribe a diet high in fats and protein to combat a low insulin sensitivity, or do you think it wiser to stick to higher carbs? I would imagine that even with the high fat option there would still be high carb days. Which do you think is more efficacious?

I think that this is somewhat of a limited and rough approach.

For maximum results, a diet should be based on the individual’s needs, capacities and goals.

For one thing I do not believe in gorging or force-feeding to induce extra growth. In my experience it doesn’t work, except for genetic freaks of individuals using anabolic drugs.

Natural individuals are limited by their own natural biology/physiology when it comes to using nutrients to build muscle.

When you reach the ceiling of how much nutrients you can turn into muscle daily, any extra food ingested will not lead to more muscle growth but it will contribute to making yourself fatter.

Someone who wants to maximize his muscle mass, especially if he is an endomorph (or partially an endomorph) who tends to put on fat relatively easily, needs precision in his muscle gain diet.

YES the sheer amount of nutrients consumed IS important, but it’s not the only (or even the most important) factor involved.

  • Nutrients selection (using the best nutrients)
  • Nutrients timing (using the best nutrients at the optimal times)

These are the two most important things.

Anybody who wants to build as much muscle mass as possible should start by planning the para-workout period of the day (60 minutes prior to your workout right up to 60 minutes after your workout). If you nail this perfectly YOU WILL GAIN MUSCLE MASS. You might screw up the rest of your day, but you’ll still progress if you were perfect during that period.

Obviously you’ll do even better if the rest of your day is perfect too, but para-workout nutrition is key.

I’ve written several posts regarding that topic in this thread, I suggest that you look them over.[/quote]

Will do. Thanks Christian!

166

Hey Coach,

A couple of questions reagrding - you guessed it - The pulse-feeding protocol.

  1. Can you quantify the benefits of this approach compared to say a protein, fat & veggie diet with nuts and a shake between meals and para-workout of 1 scoop (30g protein) low carb whey iso protein shake immediatley prior to training and 1.5 scoops whey iso (50g protein) shake with 12 oz. pinapple juice post workout. Just to get a rough idea on effort/reward ratio.

  2. Conventional wisdom up to now has been to maintain as stable as possible blood sugar level and avoiding spikes except for post workout when they are well handled. Solid food meals have been recommended over shakes whenever possible. In that pursuit, I have always added cinnamon to my shakes (except para-workout) and accompanied the in-between meal shakes with nuts to ward off hunger and blunt blood sugar impact.

The new protocol flies in the face of those practices in that (as far as I can see) we now want the insulin spike brought on by the CH or WH shake (between meals and pre-breakfast) so we must now avoid sustaining sides like nuts or fats of any sort at these snack times. Blood sugar regulating agents like cinnamon must be avoided at these snack times too using the same logic.

  1. The pre-morning CH shake is a little awkward for people like me who like to eat a wholesome breakfast with limited time before leaving, but I guess it is always doable to have the CH skake upon waking and then shower and then prepare eggs with almond butter for instance.

  2. How important is the low protein day? In my case on a protein, fat and veggies diet where I normally have one cheat meal per week; this would be my day to replenish glycogen stores from fruits and veggies (and possibly a cheat meal thrown in) until the last two meals consisting of solid food with significant protein.

This is my understanding of the strategy.

167

Thibs, for those on a low budget and not being able to include Surge Workout Fuel or Surge Recovery. How does this para-workout setup look during a low carb diet (specifically weeks 5-8 Get Jacked 185-225lb)?

60 minutes before workout = 0.2g of BCAAs per pound,

30 minutes before workout = (I know there is no substitute for Surge Workout Fuel, but any suggestions? (beta-alinine? vitamin c? dextrose/malto?)

During the workout = 20g casein hydrolysate

Post-workout: 20g casein hydrolysate, 25g dextrose, 25g maltodextrin, 0.1g glycine, 5g leucine

60 minutes post-workout: 20g casein hydrolysate

Is there any other ingredients that can be added at any of thse times to enhance the efficacy of he casein hydrolysate?
Thanks Thibs, appreciate all of your help!

168

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
benmoore wrote:
Coach,

I ran your regressive keto cycle not too long ago
 dropped about 6.5kg but only 2% bodyfat and a LOT of strength.

Training was 3 full body sessions running an ABA type split of

A:
Horizontal push
Deadlift
Horizontal pull
Ab work

B:
Vertical pull
Squat
Vertical push
Ab work

Everything pretty much in the 4 sets of 4-8 (with 4-8RM loading) and 2-3 min rest periods.

No energy systems work, just some added NEPA walks occasionally when losses stalled. I followed the plan to a tee but really wasnt happy with my results. I realise I must have made a massive mistake somewhere!

Not enough volume of training, your body had no reason to hold on to its muscle since so little was asked of it.[/quote]

Thank you for the reply coach!

I always thought that high loading was most important during a cut and as a result dropped volume to up the load used.

I realise you would not want to probably suggest parameters for traning on here or even check over full training plans. However this is the kind of thing I would need guidance on and would love to try again some day - you are one of my favourite coaches for nutrition advice and I trust you when you say you can shave off up to 5% bodyfat in 4 weeks.

I am however a somewhat poor student at the moment
 in the future would it be possible perhaps to draw up some kind of outline for lifting and energy systems work for the 4 weeks and send to you for evaluation/tweaking. I would of course be willing to pay for this but I do not think I could afford a full nutrition and training plan.

Thank you for everything coach

169

[quote]benmoore wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
benmoore wrote:
Coach,

I ran your regressive keto cycle not too long ago
 dropped about 6.5kg but only 2% bodyfat and a LOT of strength.

Training was 3 full body sessions running an ABA type split of

A:
Horizontal push
Deadlift
Horizontal pull
Ab work

B:
Vertical pull
Squat
Vertical push
Ab work

Everything pretty much in the 4 sets of 4-8 (with 4-8RM loading) and 2-3 min rest periods.

No energy systems work, just some added NEPA walks occasionally when losses stalled. I followed the plan to a tee but really wasnt happy with my results. I realise I must have made a massive mistake somewhere!

Not enough volume of training, your body had no reason to hold on to its muscle since so little was asked of it.

Thank you for the reply coach!

I always thought that high loading was most important during a cut and as a result dropped volume to up the load used.

I realise you would not want to probably suggest parameters for traning on here or even check over full training plans. However this is the kind of thing I would need guidance on and would love to try again some day - you are one of my favourite coaches for nutrition advice and I trust you when you say you can shave off up to 5% bodyfat in 4 weeks.

I am however a somewhat poor student at the moment
 in the future would it be possible perhaps to draw up some kind of outline for lifting and energy systems work for the 4 weeks and send to you for evaluation/tweaking. I would of course be willing to pay for this but I do not think I could afford a full nutrition and training plan.

Thank you for everything coach[/quote]

Go read my article ‘‘destroying fat’’

170

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
benmoore wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
benmoore wrote:
Coach,

I ran your regressive keto cycle not too long ago
 dropped about 6.5kg but only 2% bodyfat and a LOT of strength.

Training was 3 full body sessions running an ABA type split of

A:
Horizontal push
Deadlift
Horizontal pull
Ab work

B:
Vertical pull
Squat
Vertical push
Ab work

Everything pretty much in the 4 sets of 4-8 (with 4-8RM loading) and 2-3 min rest periods.

No energy systems work, just some added NEPA walks occasionally when losses stalled. I followed the plan to a tee but really wasnt happy with my results. I realise I must have made a massive mistake somewhere!

Not enough volume of training, your body had no reason to hold on to its muscle since so little was asked of it.

Thank you for the reply coach!

I always thought that high loading was most important during a cut and as a result dropped volume to up the load used.

I realise you would not want to probably suggest parameters for traning on here or even check over full training plans. However this is the kind of thing I would need guidance on and would love to try again some day - you are one of my favourite coaches for nutrition advice and I trust you when you say you can shave off up to 5% bodyfat in 4 weeks.

I am however a somewhat poor student at the moment
 in the future would it be possible perhaps to draw up some kind of outline for lifting and energy systems work for the 4 weeks and send to you for evaluation/tweaking. I would of course be willing to pay for this but I do not think I could afford a full nutrition and training plan.

Thank you for everything coach

Go read my article ‘‘destroying fat’’ [/quote]

Will do Coach!

Someone suggested this but I thought it was something you no longer reccomended on account of favouring newer methods. Im guessing the energy systems work in this article can be applied to the RKD?

I promise no more questions from me after that one! Thank you again.

171

Hi Coach,

How do you recommend the setup of the Low Protein day (in the pulse-feeding approach) during the “Get Jacked” Program?
Veggies and fat all day long until the last 2 meals of the day ( one is the cheat meal, if on sunday)?
What’s about the portions?

thank you very much

172

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Thank you for everything coach

Go read my article ‘‘destroying fat’’ [/quote]

I was interested in this so I glanced back over the article again

Day 1: Heavy lifting chest/back

Day 2: Lactate-inducing workout 1

Day 3: OFF

Day 4: Heavy lifting quads/hams

Day 5: OFF

Day 6: Lactate-inducing workout 2

Day 7: OFF

As far as strength workouts go isn’t that even less volume? Or at least not much more. Each workout has 10-12 supersets and theres 2 strength workouts a week. Each of his workouts have 12 working sets and theres 3 workouts a week.

173

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Pickles wrote:
CT,

Discussions have been really interesting lately, good to see that there is still so much to learn!!

What would you recomend for a ‘low carber’ if waking up at 5am and training at 7am?

Currently:
5am - 5g Leucine, 30g Milk Protein & 30g Peanut butter
6:30am - 20g BCAA, 5g Creatine & Workout Fuel
7:00am - (during Training) 20g Whey Protein Hydrolysate
8:00am - 5g Creatine and Surge or 20g WPH & 20g Glycine

I’d guess now you’d recomend Whey at 5am, but being low carb what should I have with it?
and how long should you wait after a meal containing fat before taking Workout fuel?

Many Thanks

Actually your schedule is pretty darn good, except for breakfast which is not ideal, but not that bad either.

  • Your BCAA and workout fuel timing is sound

  • Whey protein hydrolysate is a very good ‘during workout’ protein if casein hydrolysate is not available, just make sure to dilute it a lot to improve absorbability.

  • Post-workout is decent. But I would recommend one of these three options:

OPTION 1 (if you are on a strict low-carbs diet)
0.3g of whey hydrolysate (casein hydrolysate would be even better) per pound
0.1g of glycine per pound
5g leucine
5g creatine

OPTION 2 (if you are on a lower carbs diet, but not zero carbs)
1 scoop SURGE RECOVERY + 0.1g of whey/casein hydrolysate per pound
0.1g of glycine per pound
5g leucine
5g creatine

OPTION 3 (if you are not on a low carbs diet)
2 scoops SURGE RECOVERY
5g creatine

As for breakfast, remember, at that time you want fast absorption to create an anabolic spike that will stop catabolism from the overnight fast.

So start with 20-30g of either whey or casein hydrolysate and 5g leucine.

20-30 minutes later have an all egg whites omelette (6-8 egg whites) and you can add 3g of fish oil.[/quote]

Coach, you have mentioned in the past using PS after workouts in the day and glycine in the evening. You still on board with PS or are you moving back towards glycine all the time? If so, what changed your mind about PS?

Thanks.

174

Does anyone know a good casein hydrolysate product?

175

[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Thank you for everything coach

Go read my article ‘‘destroying fat’’

I was interested in this so I glanced back over the article again

Day 1: Heavy lifting chest/back

Day 2: Lactate-inducing workout 1

Day 3: OFF

Day 4: Heavy lifting quads/hams

Day 5: OFF

Day 6: Lactate-inducing workout 2

Day 7: OFF

As far as strength workouts go isn’t that even less volume? Or at least not much more. Each workout has 10-12 supersets and theres 2 strength workouts a week. Each of his workouts have 12 working sets and theres 3 workouts a week.[/quote]

This program takes a lot out of you. Only resting between supersets instead of after every set makes the workload feel like a lot more then it looks like on paper. And you forgot to mention the Sprinting session after the Heavy Chest / Back workout, that’s a massive leg workout in itself.

Try one of the lactate inducing workouts for yourself, and let us know if you can make it through without almost passing out!

This program is one of the best I’ve come across, although it makes you feel like death a few times a week, it also gives big results.

LR

176

[quote]London Runner wrote:
Needmassquick wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Thank you for everything coach

Go read my article ‘‘destroying fat’’

I was interested in this so I glanced back over the article again

Day 1: Heavy lifting chest/back

Day 2: Lactate-inducing workout 1

Day 3: OFF

Day 4: Heavy lifting quads/hams

Day 5: OFF

Day 6: Lactate-inducing workout 2

Day 7: OFF

As far as strength workouts go isn’t that even less volume? Or at least not much more. Each workout has 10-12 supersets and theres 2 strength workouts a week. Each of his workouts have 12 working sets and theres 3 workouts a week.

This program takes a lot out of you. Only resting between supersets instead of after every set makes the workload feel like a lot more then it looks like on paper. And you forgot to mention the Sprinting session after the Heavy Chest / Back workout, that’s a massive leg workout in itself.

Try one of the lactate inducing workouts for yourself, and let us know if you can make it through without almost passing out!

This program is one of the best I’ve come across, although it makes you feel like death a few times a week, it also gives big results.

LR[/quote]

I wonder how it compares with his refined physique transformation article which was written with low carb in mind. ALso written at a later date to destroying fat:

Monday: Chest and back heavy

Tuesday: Legs, heavy

Wednesday: OFF

Thursday: Lactate-inducing workout, then 30 minutes low-intensity ESW

Friday: Arms (heavy) and shoulders

Saturday: Lactate-inducing workout, then 30 minutes low-intensity ESW

Sunday: OFF

With extra low intensity ESW possible after tuesday session if fat loss stalls.

training parameters outlined in the article too:

177

[quote]shoelessjones wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Pickles wrote:
CT,

Discussions have been really interesting lately, good to see that there is still so much to learn!!

What would you recomend for a ‘low carber’ if waking up at 5am and training at 7am?

Currently:
5am - 5g Leucine, 30g Milk Protein & 30g Peanut butter
6:30am - 20g BCAA, 5g Creatine & Workout Fuel
7:00am - (during Training) 20g Whey Protein Hydrolysate
8:00am - 5g Creatine and Surge or 20g WPH & 20g Glycine

I’d guess now you’d recomend Whey at 5am, but being low carb what should I have with it?
and how long should you wait after a meal containing fat before taking Workout fuel?

Many Thanks

Actually your schedule is pretty darn good, except for breakfast which is not ideal, but not that bad either.

  • Your BCAA and workout fuel timing is sound

  • Whey protein hydrolysate is a very good ‘during workout’ protein if casein hydrolysate is not available, just make sure to dilute it a lot to improve absorbability.

  • Post-workout is decent. But I would recommend one of these three options:

OPTION 1 (if you are on a strict low-carbs diet)
0.3g of whey hydrolysate (casein hydrolysate would be even better) per pound
0.1g of glycine per pound
5g leucine
5g creatine

OPTION 2 (if you are on a lower carbs diet, but not zero carbs)
1 scoop SURGE RECOVERY + 0.1g of whey/casein hydrolysate per pound
0.1g of glycine per pound
5g leucine
5g creatine

OPTION 3 (if you are not on a low carbs diet)
2 scoops SURGE RECOVERY
5g creatine

As for breakfast, remember, at that time you want fast absorption to create an anabolic spike that will stop catabolism from the overnight fast.

So start with 20-30g of either whey or casein hydrolysate and 5g leucine.

20-30 minutes later have an all egg whites omelette (6-8 egg whites) and you can add 3g of fish oil.

Coach, you have mentioned in the past using PS after workouts in the day and glycine in the evening. You still on board with PS or are you moving back towards glycine all the time? If so, what changed your mind about PS?

Thanks.
[/quote]

PS is still high on my list, but most people cannot afford it in the dosage required.

178

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
shoelessjones wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Pickles wrote:
CT,

Discussions have been really interesting lately, good to see that there is still so much to learn!!

What would you recomend for a ‘low carber’ if waking up at 5am and training at 7am?

Currently:
5am - 5g Leucine, 30g Milk Protein & 30g Peanut butter
6:30am - 20g BCAA, 5g Creatine & Workout Fuel
7:00am - (during Training) 20g Whey Protein Hydrolysate
8:00am - 5g Creatine and Surge or 20g WPH & 20g Glycine

I’d guess now you’d recomend Whey at 5am, but being low carb what should I have with it?
and how long should you wait after a meal containing fat before taking Workout fuel?

Many Thanks

Actually your schedule is pretty darn good, except for breakfast which is not ideal, but not that bad either.

  • Your BCAA and workout fuel timing is sound

  • Whey protein hydrolysate is a very good ‘during workout’ protein if casein hydrolysate is not available, just make sure to dilute it a lot to improve absorbability.

  • Post-workout is decent. But I would recommend one of these three options:

OPTION 1 (if you are on a strict low-carbs diet)
0.3g of whey hydrolysate (casein hydrolysate would be even better) per pound
0.1g of glycine per pound
5g leucine
5g creatine

OPTION 2 (if you are on a lower carbs diet, but not zero carbs)
1 scoop SURGE RECOVERY + 0.1g of whey/casein hydrolysate per pound
0.1g of glycine per pound
5g leucine
5g creatine

OPTION 3 (if you are not on a low carbs diet)
2 scoops SURGE RECOVERY
5g creatine

As for breakfast, remember, at that time you want fast absorption to create an anabolic spike that will stop catabolism from the overnight fast.

So start with 20-30g of either whey or casein hydrolysate and 5g leucine.

20-30 minutes later have an all egg whites omelette (6-8 egg whites) and you can add 3g of fish oil.

Coach, you have mentioned in the past using PS after workouts in the day and glycine in the evening. You still on board with PS or are you moving back towards glycine all the time? If so, what changed your mind about PS?

Thanks.

PS is still high on my list, but most people cannot afford it in the dosage required.[/quote]

Ok
 thanks. 400-800mg or has your dosage changed?

179

Coach,

I’ve been interested in your OVT program because of the high volume, but I see that it was written in 2003. With what you now know, is there anything you would change with that program? Alternatively, is there another program that you’d recommend for maximal hypertrophy?

Thanks, Coach!

Joe

180

[quote]jo3 wrote:
Coach,

I’ve been interested in your OVT program because of the high volume, but I see that it was written in 2003. With what you now know, is there anything you would change with that program? Alternatively, is there another program that you’d recommend for maximal hypertrophy?

Thanks, Coach!

Joe[/quote]

Although it was a decent program, and still is. It is not inline with my current thinking. I am working hard on a new system, been doing so for a few months. I’m in the last phases of experimentation right now.