Thib Layering System Applied on Bodyweight Training

Bigger Stronger Leaner Christian Thibaudeau Coaching
1

Hello,

it will be very interesting for me, what do You (coach Thibaudeau)thing about my application of layering system to very specific combination of lower body explosive work and upper body bodyweight training.

For lower body I use a slight different protocol:

  1. Squat spec. day - ATG squat max ramp / Anderson squat clusters / Deadstart squat HDL (5,4,3,2,1)
  2. Snatch spec. day - Snatch max ramp / Snatch high pull clusters / Snatch low pull clusters / Snatch power shrugs HDL / Snatch deadlift acc.
  3. Clean spec. day - Power clean from hang max ramp / Power clean from blocks clusters / Clean high pulls HDL / Deadlift Acc.

And for upper body I use layers applied on bodyweight excercises:
4) Rings pushups max ramp (I do both for increasing diff. set by set: 1) add aditional weight (by weighted vest, ankle weights, chains and 2) do harder variations of pushups: normal → closegrip → wide grip → pseudo planche → pseudo maltese → tuck planche) / Weighted bulgurian dead-start rings dips clusters / Rings dips HDL (1,2,3,4,5,6,7…max or reverse)

  1. Weighted/harder variations Pullups max ramp / Muscleups clusters / Pullups/chinups HDL (1,2,3,4,5,6,7…max or reverse)

you can see some elements (without whole sets) on this video:

2

Haha Sagi, you’re back! I was wondering how you were using the rings for maximum upper body development. The ring press and pull ramp seems interesting and something I tried. But I have a feeling CT disapproves.

3

[quote]Sagi wrote:
Hello,

it will be very interesting for me, what do You (coach Thibaudeau)thing about my application of layering system to very specific combination of lower body explosive work and upper body bodyweight training.

For lower body I use a slight different protocol:

  1. Squat spec. day - ATG squat max ramp / Anderson squat clusters / Deadstart squat HDL (5,4,3,2,1)
  2. Snatch spec. day - Snatch max ramp / Snatch high pull clusters / Snatch low pull clusters / Snatch power shrugs HDL / Snatch deadlift acc.
  3. Clean spec. day - Power clean from hang max ramp / Power clean from blocks clusters / Clean high pulls HDL / Deadlift Acc.

And for upper body I use layers applied on bodyweight excercises:
4) Rings pushups max ramp (I do both for increasing diff. set by set: 1) add aditional weight (by weighted vest, ankle weights, chains and 2) do harder variations of pushups: normal → closegrip → wide grip → pseudo planche → pseudo maltese → tuck planche) / Weighted bulgurian dead-start rings dips clusters / Rings dips HDL (1,2,3,4,5,6,7…max or reverse)

  1. Weighted/harder variations Pullups max ramp / Muscleups clusters / Pullups/chinups HDL (1,2,3,4,5,6,7…max or reverse)

[/quote]

I fail to see how this is my layer system. The layer system is not just about the methods, but about using the different methods with the same lift.

Your day 1: The ramp is the foundation which allows you to select the weight for the other layers. So using the ATG squat to determine the Anderson and pin squats wont work because of the strength difference in both. Pick one squat variation and do it for all the layers.

Your day 2: Same thing here… either you use the snatch for all your layers, or you do the snatch outside of the layers…there is no room for shrugs in my program it is an inferior exercise. You can do a ramp of high pulls & low pulls (one continuous layer you just continue ramping using a low pull when you hit your high pull max) but for your other 2 layers pick either the high pull or the low pull and work from it’s max. The snatch deadlift is too much additional volume, especially if you do the snatch.

Your day 3: Same thing here… if you pick the power clean as your layer exercise, stick with it for all layers. If you pick the pull as your layer exercise use the pull for all layers and do the clean by itself.

Layering use the same exercise for all layers… that is one of the principles of the system.

I also do not like 2 deadlift days and 1 squat day, too much for the lower body. And I do not like only 1 high pull day.

I wont comment on the bodyweight stuff since it is not my area of expertise and I would not include it in my system… if it works for you fine, but don’t say it’s a variation of the layer system.

4

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I fail to see how this is my layer system. The layer system is not just about the methods, but about using the different methods with the same lift.
[/quote]

Yes and I know it. I tried to use one lift for each layer (all from deadstart/blocks: squat, high pull, deadlift (from the ground), power clean) but I was not satisfied with that (for example I prefer to do ATG squats (as Olympic lifters do) for optimal performance development and I cannot reach it with partial deadstart squats for max ramp.

On the other hand, its impossible to do ATG squats clusters from deadstart (both from very low pins or simply standing with BB between reps) so I decided to use same lift - e.g. SQUAT - and do different variationts in the meaning of starting/ending position (max ramp atg (normal), clusters from just above parallel (deadstart), HDL half squats (deadstart)).

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Your day 1: The ramp is the foundation which allows you to select the weight for the other layers. So using the ATG squat to determine the Anderson and pin squats wont work because of the strength difference in both. Pick one squat variation and do it for all the layers.
[/quote]

When I am doing cluster layer and hdl layer I am using for Anderson Squat and PinSquat weight of my last set of ATG squat (obviously because my 1RM for Anderson squat is higher than for ATG squat and 1RM for pin squat is so much higher than for ATG squat, that I can use my 3RM max for ATG as a weight for 5,4,3,2,1 HDL Pin squat sets).

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Your day 2: Same thing here… either you use the snatch for all your layers, or you do the snatch outside of the layers…there is no room for shrugs in my program it is an inferior exercise. You can do a ramp of high pulls & low pulls (one continuous layer you just continue ramping using a low pull when you hit your high pull max) but for your other 2 layers pick either the high pull or the low pull and work from it’s max. The snatch deadlift is too much additional volume, especially if you do the snatch.
[/quote]

I am including power snatch and power clean because I want in time be very good at them and I am using high pulls variations and ATG squats and Snatch Deadlifts for a preparation phase (I hit on clean and snatch plateau and I try rather than stack at one place try to beat them in different manner).
For last two months I wasnt doing any cleans or snatches and focus just on high pulls, atg squats and snatch deadlifts.
I was doing something similar as your continuous ramp I read about recently. It was like this:

One continuous ramping of:
A Snatch Power High Pulls (to 3RM max)
B Snatch Power Low Pulls (from weight of last set of A to 3RM max)
C Snatch Power Shrugs (very low pulls from weight of last set of B to 3RM max)
D Snatch Deadlift (from weight od last set of C to 3RM max (low effort 3RM max))
ACC Snatch Power High Pulls from Blocks 3x5(if necessary) with 80 percents of last set of A

For clean it was similar:
A Power high pulls
B Power low pulls
C Power Shrugs
D Deadlift
ACC Power high pulls from blocks

I did this two days once or twice per week and add one atg squat + power clean from blocks training to that.

Also recently I am slowly switching to clean / snatch layers (low hdl) with ATG squats or deadlifts other day.

I am writing all this because it is interesting that you are doing something similar right now.

Sorry for mistakes I am not native speaker.