There's a Lot Wrong with Britain 2.0

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"The Debt Fueled Scorched Earth UK Economy

Therefore the government is borrowing a net �??�?�£175 billion for 2009 and �??�?�£175 billion for 2010 to generate �??�?�£15 billion of growth, and then a further �??�?�£140 billion for 2011 for �??�?�£42 billion of growth. Thus total net borrowing of �??�?�£490 billion to grow the economy by just �??�?�£67 billion, (�??�?�£595 billion my forecast) which shows the magnitude of the scorched earth economic policy now implemented that literally aims to hand the next Conservative government a bankrupted economy that will be lumbered with the consequences of continuing huge budget deficits throughout the life time of the next parliament and therefore sow the seeds for a strong Labour victory at the 2014-2015 General Election."

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10990.html

And the gullible voters just keep playing the game…

BNP, now.[/quote]

OK great, please enlighten us as to the BNPs fiscal policy that would recover the economy.[/quote]

A good first place to start would be foreign aid budget. Right now Britain gives away over 8 billion pounds a year in foreign aid and the Tories are pledging to more than double it to over 16 billion a year. This is at a time of budgetary deficit, so literally all of this money is borrowed money.

Then there is the billions given away to the EU to support the poorer EU members, with nothing in return.

The billions that is lost because the EU Common Agricultural Policy prevents British farmers from growing all of Britains food so they have to import it from the EU.

The common fisheries policy which means that British fishermen are banned from fishing in the waters around Britain so that other members of the EU can exploit those fisheries and then make a profit selling the catch back to the British.

edit: I haven’t even touched upon the massive cost of paying for mass immigration.

42

[quote]Sifu wrote:

I am quite certain that beating was purely heat of the moment where the homeowner was in a state of tunnel vision where he did not have much or any sense of where he was. I’m sure the only thoughts in his mihd were “protect my family” “I want him gone and to never come back”.[/quote] This was exactly how I interpreted it.[quote]

The political class do whatever they want and don’t give a fuck about the people.[/quote]
This has been my reality here as the years went by.[quote]
Because for too long the British have been too spineless vote for anyone other than the Lib/Lab/Con. There is no incentive for politicians to act democratically when there are no consequences for not doing so.[/quote]
Not feeling the full impact of the fury of the people creates a bully government. A bully will thrive only under the conditions of victimization.[quote]

People caught up in the moment defending their homes is not vigilantism. Britain already is in the grips of gang violence and the biggest gangster of all is the government. [/quote]
This has also been my experience here. I do not experience that I have equal rights before the government. Two solicitors have said to me: “You cannot take the government on” ( And I was only referring to parking penalty issues’ which is local council, which is in turn, backed up by government ).
Were the politicians who played the benefit system convicted of fraud? The civilians who do this are banned as ‘benefit thieves’ and there are major campaigns to “catch and criminalize” them.

I experience violation daily. Only not of the physical kind - so that is ok because it’s civilized and legalized by the people in power.

The power to come into my home to check for my tv usage and exact a tv licence without giving me a choice is not equality by law. And that is just a small example of how they are home invaders.
And this is not about how good the BBC programs are. This is about my free will.

43

[quote]Sifu wrote:

There is a lot in Britain and Europe that should not be a model for America. That is why it is worthwhile for Americans to have some idea of what is going on over there. Because we have politicians over here who are looking to Europe for ideas. ie VAT.

Just this year in the US there has been discussions of implementing VAT but there have been no protests because people don’t know what it is. Just like it has done to Europe, VAT would be the end of the America as a land of opportunity. [/quote]

You don’t have VAT? Really? How does the US government help themselves to your pockets then? NO tv licence and no VAT? Wow. No wonder your self esteem is higher as a nation then ours.

The US must have an equivalent to VAT? What is it?

44

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

The guy went and got a posse together to go out and lynch the guy. Had it happened to me I would possibly have done the same. I am involved in an analogous situation at the moment and I can fully, fully understand the emotions. That does not mean that the law gets superseded.[/quote]

Does that mean you really feel your bones the law is “right”/fair? Or do you just not want to be identified as a “brute”/“unrighteous” person if you act independently from the political authorities?

Or are you simply happy/choosing to wait out for “justice”?

I am genuinely curious as I still don’t quite understand where you are coming from. Do you think acting on your own will makes you a “bad person” because it did not belong to you to bring your own justice?

45

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney, when the law is set up to protect thugs so they can be safe to commit a home invasion where they take people hostage at knife point, tie them up and threaten to kill their children in front their parents that is anarchy. [/quote]

The law has to treat everyone equally, that is the point. Both the burglars and the brothers committed crimes and they were both correctly prosecuted, now you can argue about the correctness of the sentences for either and I would happily agree with you however to argue that one or other party should not have been prosecuted is to state that the law is optional and doesn’t apply to everyone equally.[/quote]

This is where you are very wrong. The home invaders and the man whose home they invaded are not equals. The invaders were somewhere they were not supposed to be, committing crimes they were not supposed to be committing. Their victim was peacefully going about his lawful business in his home.

When the home invaders were stood outside the house they were equals. But the moment they kicked open the door and invaded that mans home they ceased to be equals. The home invaders bear responsibility for all events that transpired after that moment.

Blind justice that blindly treats all people as equals no matter what they have done, is not fair, is not justice and it is very unequal. The home owner was prosecuted with no consideration of mitigating circumstances. ie the invaders kidnapped and were torturing his children in front of him. While the home invaders were given undue consideration and let off unpunished. That is not treating them equally.

Your attitude shows what is wrong with Britain today. The British have no clue of what true equality is. They have turned equality into a meaningless mantra that they mindlessly chant when they use it to justify treating people unfairly and unequally.

[/quote]
Look dick head, one of the basic tennets of the law in a democractic society is that everyone is equal under the law. Whislt vigilantism might be totally understandable it cannot be supported or encouraged. We are not living in the wild west whatever your gun stroking fantasies tell you.[/quote]

No it is not. One of the basic tennets of the law is that we have certain rights until we commit a crime. When you commit a crime you begin to give up certain rights. ie you commit a crime you do time, you lose your freedom.

You have the right to not have someone beat you down with a bat. But when you do what the home invaders did and provoke a man into having a freak out where he is no longer thinking straight it is not unreasonable for society to say you have compromised that right and you brought that on yourself.

I don’t support vigilantism. What that homeowner did was not vigilantism. It would have been if he had beat the invader sometime after the fact. The homeowner had no time to think about what he was doing, smoke a joint, calm down, he was completely in the moment.

In the US it would have been up to the police and the prosecutor whether or not they wanted to pursue charges against the homeowner. He would have been able to plead diminished capacity if they did which means the circumstances that caused his freak out would be taken into consideration.

Most importantly in the US, the cheif of police, prosecutor and the judge would be democratically elected officials making them answerable to the values of the community. For all your bullshit about democracy these same officials in Britain are appointees who don’t have to give a damn about what the people in the community think.

In fact it was last year that the idea of making police officials elected instead of appointed was suggested by the government, but then quickly dropped because of fears that BNP candidates would be winning the elections.

46

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[/quote

You live in a fantasy land, Britain is just not like that. Seriously stop taking the Guy Ritchie movies seriously, they are fiction.

The guy went and got a posse together to go out and lynch the guy. Had it happened to me I would possibly have done the same. I am involved in an analogous situation at the moment and I can fully, fully understand the emotions. That does not mean that the law gets superseded.[/quote]

You are the one living in fantasy. They had the man and his family tied and were threatening them with knives saying they were going to kill them. This caused the homeowner to flip out and free himself, then it was game on. He didn’t round up a posse.

47

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

There is a lot in Britain and Europe that should not be a model for America. That is why it is worthwhile for Americans to have some idea of what is going on over there. Because we have politicians over here who are looking to Europe for ideas. ie VAT.

Just this year in the US there has been discussions of implementing VAT but there have been no protests because people don’t know what it is. Just like it has done to Europe, VAT would be the end of the America as a land of opportunity. [/quote]

You don’t have VAT? Really? How does the US government help themselves to your pockets then? NO tv licence and no VAT? Wow. No wonder your self esteem is higher as a nation then ours.

The US must have an equivalent to VAT? What is it?

[/quote]

They have sales taxes amongst other things. The government needs to balance the books, they will do it one way or another, whatever it is called.

48

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

The guy went and got a posse together to go out and lynch the guy. Had it happened to me I would possibly have done the same. I am involved in an analogous situation at the moment and I can fully, fully understand the emotions. That does not mean that the law gets superseded.[/quote]

Does that mean you really feel your bones the law is “right”/fair? Or do you just not want to be identified as a “brute”/“unrighteous” person if you act independently from the political authorities?

Or are you simply happy/choosing to wait out for “justice”?

I am genuinely curious as I still don’t quite understand where you are coming from. Do you think acting on your own will makes you a “bad person” because it did not belong to you to bring your own justice?[/quote]

In the abstract yes the law is right and fair, in the personal at times it is unfair, unjust and far too slow. We have to attempt to live by the law though because the alternative is worse.

49

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney, when the law is set up to protect thugs so they can be safe to commit a home invasion where they take people hostage at knife point, tie them up and threaten to kill their children in front their parents that is anarchy. [/quote]

The law has to treat everyone equally, that is the point. Both the burglars and the brothers committed crimes and they were both correctly prosecuted, now you can argue about the correctness of the sentences for either and I would happily agree with you however to argue that one or other party should not have been prosecuted is to state that the law is optional and doesn’t apply to everyone equally.[/quote]

This is where you are very wrong. The home invaders and the man whose home they invaded are not equals. The invaders were somewhere they were not supposed to be, committing crimes they were not supposed to be committing. Their victim was peacefully going about his lawful business in his home.

When the home invaders were stood outside the house they were equals. But the moment they kicked open the door and invaded that mans home they ceased to be equals. The home invaders bear responsibility for all events that transpired after that moment.

Blind justice that blindly treats all people as equals no matter what they have done, is not fair, is not justice and it is very unequal. The home owner was prosecuted with no consideration of mitigating circumstances. ie the invaders kidnapped and were torturing his children in front of him. While the home invaders were given undue consideration and let off unpunished. That is not treating them equally.

Your attitude shows what is wrong with Britain today. The British have no clue of what true equality is. They have turned equality into a meaningless mantra that they mindlessly chant when they use it to justify treating people unfairly and unequally.

[/quote]
Look dick head, one of the basic tennets of the law in a democractic society is that everyone is equal under the law. Whislt vigilantism might be totally understandable it cannot be supported or encouraged. We are not living in the wild west whatever your gun stroking fantasies tell you.[/quote]

No it is not. One of the basic tennets of the law is that we have certain rights until we commit a crime. When you commit a crime you begin to give up certain rights. ie you commit a crime you do time, you lose your freedom.

You have the right to not have someone beat you down with a bat. But when you do what the home invaders did and provoke a man into having a freak out where he is no longer thinking straight it is not unreasonable for society to say you have compromised that right and you brought that on yourself.

I don’t support vigilantism. What that homeowner did was not vigilantism. It would have been if he had beat the invader sometime after the fact. The homeowner had no time to think about what he was doing, smoke a joint, calm down, he was completely in the moment.

In the US it would have been up to the police and the prosecutor whether or not they wanted to pursue charges against the homeowner. He would have been able to plead diminished capacity if they did which means the circumstances that caused his freak out would be taken into consideration.

Most importantly in the US, the cheif of police, prosecutor and the judge would be democratically elected officials making them answerable to the values of the community. For all your bullshit about democracy these same officials in Britain are appointees who don’t have to give a damn about what the people in the community think.

In fact it was last year that the idea of making police officials elected instead of appointed was suggested by the government, but then quickly dropped because of fears that BNP candidates would be winning the elections. [/quote]

A vigilante is someone who illegally punishes someone for a percieved offense. That is exactly what happened in this case and you support it. You are supporting vigilantism.

The US system is the same as the British one in that if a complaint is made by a member of the public and there is evidence to support the complaint a case is built and then tried.

In the UK they could also claim diminished responsablity, but that is pretty hard to do when you have rounded up a gang of your friends and family to chase after and beat someone to the point of causing brain damage.

50

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

The BNP’s economic policy includes stopping the majority of imports this will have a knock on effect on exports and totally destroy the economy. [/quote]

Now you are repeating the NWO fear mongering. Britain imports a lot of stuff from countries who buy nothing from Britain that it could produce itself. ie China does not play fair with anyone. It is national suicide to blindly continue a policy of free trade when you are not competeing on a level playing field.

[quote]
They also support renationalising utilities which would be a disaster (I remember how things were in the UK with nationalised utilites, rolling power outages, terrible water quality, an over priced phone network with zero additional services and non existant customer service coupled with zero accountability. [/quote]

They have made sizable inroads into Labour’s traditional base of support. Policies like nationalisation can appeal to that demographic. I don’t support nationalisation but for certain industries like utilities it can make some sense for them to be state owned or non-profit.

I don’t remember the water supply being bad, but I do remember when the water in France gave my mother an “English stomach”. I think it is scary that a French company now owns Britains water supplies.

Good customer service is not a British trait. I wish I had a pound for everytime I have heard a Brit talk shit about how they visited the US and fucking Yanks make an effort to provide good customer service. What I find funny is Americans don’t realize that Gordon Ramsey going off on a customer on Hell’s kitchen is normal British customer service.

[quote]
They support severing ties with Europe which would devistate foreign investment particularly from the US. [/quote]

You don’t know what you are talking about. The City of London’s financial services is Britain’s most important industry. The new EU finance minister is a frenchman who has stated that he intends to bring Britain’s banking laws in line with the rest of Europe, he hates Anglo style free market capitalism and he intends to make Paris a rival to London.

Britain gives more money to the EU than it gets back from it and buys more from it than it sells.

Pulling out of the EU is the only way the British people can have a vote on the EU constitution. So blame Labour and Tories for that. Europe isn’t going to go away if Britain pulls out of the EU. This is just more fear mongering.

[quote]
They plan on heavily taxing companies which outsource, this would cause a large number of British Companies to re-register offshore cutting the total tax income. [/quote]

Outsourcing has done a lot to lower the standards of living in both the US and Britain for the benefit of a handful of ultra wealthy investors.

[quote]
They basically support isolationist policies that would take the UK back to the dark ages. [/quote]

World trade is not being conducted on a level playing field. The British are getting fucked because of it.

[quote]
Their policies are designed to appeal to the undereducated bloke down the boozer whose idea of foreign travel is sitting in the Nags Head pub in Majorca, who doesn’t read past the headlines of their tabloid newspaper and is fed up with all the darkies taking all the jobs but who isn’t a racist because he is on first name terms with the Pakki who runs the spar shop on the corner. [/quote]

That myth was shattered last year when someone stole their membership list and posted it on the internet. Their membership list showed that their support is spread across all levels of society. That is why the release of their membership list backfired and brought new people to the party.

51

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

There is a lot in Britain and Europe that should not be a model for America. That is why it is worthwhile for Americans to have some idea of what is going on over there. Because we have politicians over here who are looking to Europe for ideas. ie VAT.

Just this year in the US there has been discussions of implementing VAT but there have been no protests because people don’t know what it is. Just like it has done to Europe, VAT would be the end of the America as a land of opportunity. [/quote]

You don’t have VAT? Really? How does the US government help themselves to your pockets then? NO tv licence and no VAT? Wow. No wonder your self esteem is higher as a nation then ours. [/quote]

The United States was born because a fraternal group of slave owning, white, men, did not want to pay their taxes, to the British government. The founding document that created this country was the declaration of Independence. Americans like their independence and don’t like big government.

Instead of the despair and hopelessness created by high taxes we have opportunity and financial freedom. It is why Europeans are so bitter and jealous of us.

52

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

There is a lot in Britain and Europe that should not be a model for America. That is why it is worthwhile for Americans to have some idea of what is going on over there. Because we have politicians over here who are looking to Europe for ideas. ie VAT.

Just this year in the US there has been discussions of implementing VAT but there have been no protests because people don’t know what it is. Just like it has done to Europe, VAT would be the end of the America as a land of opportunity. [/quote]

You don’t have VAT? Really? How does the US government help themselves to your pockets then? NO tv licence and no VAT? Wow. No wonder your self esteem is higher as a nation then ours. [/quote]

The United States was born because a fraternal group of slave owning, white, men, did not want to pay their taxes, to the British government. The founding document that created this country was the declaration of Independence. Americans like their independence and don’t like big government.

Instead of the despair and hopelessness created by high taxes we have opportunity and financial freedom. It is why Europeans are so bitter and jealous of us. [/quote]

Bollocks, you have taxes just like the Brits, they might have different names but you still pay them. You are an empty shirt, a vacuous whiner with no substance behind what you right.

53

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

There is a lot in Britain and Europe that should not be a model for America. That is why it is worthwhile for Americans to have some idea of what is going on over there. Because we have politicians over here who are looking to Europe for ideas. ie VAT.

Just this year in the US there has been discussions of implementing VAT but there have been no protests because people don’t know what it is. Just like it has done to Europe, VAT would be the end of the America as a land of opportunity. [/quote]

You don’t have VAT? Really? How does the US government help themselves to your pockets then? NO tv licence and no VAT? Wow. No wonder your self esteem is higher as a nation then ours.

The US must have an equivalent to VAT? What is it?

[/quote]

They have sales taxes amongst other things. The government needs to balance the books, they will do it one way or another, whatever it is called.[/quote]

Sales tax is not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. Sales tax here is only a couple of a percent. Because of the amount of bureauracracy needed to calculate the amount of value added at each and every stage of a products creation VAT has to be at least 15 percent just to pay for all the bureaucrats. VAT is massively wasteful it is primarily a job creation scheme for bureaucrats.

Pre Obama americans would not tolerate European levels of taxation and spending. That is why if the European economy is growing at one percent a year they consider it to be booming, while the Americans consider that to be a recessionary level of growth.

54

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

In the abstract yes the law is right and fair, in the personal at times it is unfair, unjust and far too slow. [/quote]
That sounds as if you are speaking of a God you don’t believe in.

You don’t believe in God because God is an abstraction and yet you replace God with an abstract concept of justice.
I believe that God is not present in the world.
And that is why our perception of justice is conceptual and not actual.[quote]
We have to attempt to live by the law though because the alternative is worse.[/quote]
We have to attempt to live by principles because the alternative is worse.

The principles of the sanctity of life.

“Live by the sword,die by the sword.”

“those who live by violence will die by violence”

I believe this is within one’s exercise of free will.
We do not learn by having the full impact of the consequences of our actions shielded from us.

55

[quote]Sifu wrote:

Sales tax is not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. Sales tax here is only a couple of a percent. Because of the amount of bureauracracy needed to calculate the amount of value added at each and every stage of a products creation VAT has to be at least 15 percent just to pay for all the bureaucrats. VAT is massively wasteful it is primarily a job creation scheme for bureaucrats.
[/quote]
17.5% we pay here. Not to mention the other stealth taxes which are mandatory: I believe you have a motorcycle in the US you need not: A license, an insurance, MOT, tax disk? All those are mandatory here and on top of it all I have to pay to park the bike IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE.
Fishing; you cannot own a fishing rod without a licence. It came to me as I shock this year when I fund out you needed a licence to go fishing in Britain; is that the same in the US?

So are you saying, in the end VAT is 2.5% sales tax and 15% administration charges?

56

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

There is a lot in Britain and Europe that should not be a model for America. That is why it is worthwhile for Americans to have some idea of what is going on over there. Because we have politicians over here who are looking to Europe for ideas. ie VAT.

Just this year in the US there has been discussions of implementing VAT but there have been no protests because people don’t know what it is. Just like it has done to Europe, VAT would be the end of the America as a land of opportunity. [/quote]

You don’t have VAT? Really? How does the US government help themselves to your pockets then? NO tv licence and no VAT? Wow. No wonder your self esteem is higher as a nation then ours. [/quote]

The United States was born because a fraternal group of slave owning, white, men, did not want to pay their taxes, to the British government. The founding document that created this country was the declaration of Independence. Americans like their independence and don’t like big government.

Instead of the despair and hopelessness created by high taxes we have opportunity and financial freedom. It is why Europeans are so bitter and jealous of us. [/quote]

Bollocks, you have taxes just like the Brits, they might have different names but you still pay them. You are an empty shirt, a vacuous whiner with no substance behind what you right.[/quote]

You are as defensive as ever and don’t know what you are talking about. Yes we have taxes but we don’t have the draconian level of taxes that Britain has.

The highest income tax bracket in the US is 35 percent. In Britain it is 50 percent. The given reason for the 50 percent tax bracket was not because it was necessary to raise revenues, because it won’t and it is well known it won’t. Instead the governments boasted we are going to stick it to the rich and punish them for being successful.

Something about the British is they have a real nasty meanstreak in them where they deeply resent anyone who is successful and doing well. A big part of the British character is to want to see someone who is successful “taken down a peg or two”. It’s really evident when you see their attitude towards Americans.

In Michigan the state sales tax is 6 percent. In Britain VAT is 17.5 percent.

Our road tax on gasoline is 19 cents per gallon state tax, 18.4 cents per gallon federal tax. In Britain the Petrol tax is 71 percent plus 17.5 percent VAT. I buy premium gasoline for less than 3 dollars a gallon. In Britain it is over 5 pounds per gallon and the pound is trading at over 1.596 dollars to the pound. So that means petrol is over 8 dollars per gallon.

I could go on and on but I think I’ve made my point.

57

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

Sales tax is not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. Sales tax here is only a couple of a percent. Because of the amount of bureauracracy needed to calculate the amount of value added at each and every stage of a products creation VAT has to be at least 15 percent just to pay for all the bureaucrats. VAT is massively wasteful it is primarily a job creation scheme for bureaucrats.
[/quote]
17.5% we pay here. Not to mention the other stealth taxes which are mandatory: I believe you have a motorcycle in the US you need not: A license, an insurance, MOT, tax disk? All those are mandatory here and on top of it all I have to pay to park the bike IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE.
Fishing; you cannot own a fishing rod without a licence. It came to me as I shock this year when I fund out you needed a licence to go fishing in Britain; is that the same in the US?

So are you saying, in the end VAT is 2.5% sales tax and 15% administration charges?
[/quote]

I’ll give you an example of how VAT works. Let’s say you are Levi Strauss a blue jean maker. When you take raw cotton and spin it into thread or yarn value has been added to that cotton, so the Value Added Tax can be applied. When some of that is weaved into cloth more value has been added so another charge can be applied. Then when it is cut in panels and sown into jeans more value has been added. When the raw steel for the rivets and zipper is manufactured value is added along those steps as well. All of those value adding steps have to be accounted for which requires manpower for accounting and administration.

Now how does Levi pay for all those Value Added Tax charges? Why it passes them on to the retailor in their final price. Then when the retailor sells them to the consumer they pay the VAT on the final price.

The whole system requires a massive bureauracracy which costs a lot of money to keep running. This bureauracracy is also part of what is known as the “client state”. They are people who have worthless government jobs that pay well, who are dependant upon the state for their existance.

Value added tax is a consumption tax. VAT is also known as a regressive tax because it disproportionately affects the poor in favor of the rich, because have to pay a much higher percentage of their income in taxes than the rich. It is a way to keep the poor in their place. That is why the Europeans have it.

58

Here’s the latest news on VAT. The British are just too stupid and stubborn to accept that taxing the economy to death results in lower revenues for the government.

VAT rise will mean months of stagflation
Households must brace themselves for a painful period of stagflation-lite in the opening months of 2010 as the VAT cut comes to an end and squeezes incomes across the country, experts have warned.

Inflation will rise significantly above the Bank of England’s 2pc target and consumer spending will drop by 0.7pc in the opening months of next year, in the first taste for British households of the period of austerity that is an inevitable consequence as the Government puts its books in order in the coming years, according to the Centre for Economics and Business Research.

It said that the increase in VAT from 15pc to 17.5pc that kicks in on January 1 “has the potential of stalling an emerging recovery.”

59

[quote]Sifu wrote:

I’ll give you an example of how VAT works. Let’s say you are Levi Strauss a blue jean maker. When you take raw cotton and spin it into thread or yarn value has been added to that cotton, so the Value Added Tax can be applied. When some of that is weaved into cloth more value has been added so another charge can be applied. Then when it is cut in panels and sown into jeans more value has been added. When the raw steel for the rivets and zipper is manufactured value is added along those steps as well. All of those value adding steps have to be accounted for which requires manpower for accounting and administration.

Now how does Levi pay for all those Value Added Tax charges? Why it passes them on to the retailor in their final price. Then when the retailor sells them to the consumer they pay the VAT on the final price.

The whole system requires a massive bureauracracy which costs a lot of money to keep running. This bureauracracy is also part of what is known as the “client state”. They are people who have worthless government jobs that pay well, who are dependant upon the state for their existance.

Value added tax is a consumption tax. VAT is also known as a regressive tax because it disproportionately affects the poor in favor of the rich, because have to pay a much higher percentage of their income in taxes than the rich. It is a way to keep the poor in their place. That is why the Europeans have it. [/quote]

Thank you for that. So does Levi Strauss jeans just gets the sales tax set by the state, as your example; the state of Michigan adds 6% value to the blue jeans final product?

I remember being told different states have different sales taxes because when I was there my friend told me it would be cheaper for me to buy my motorcycle clothes in Kansas than it would in California. But I was on vacation so I didn’t go for an explanation into your taxing system.
And does that mean if you buy Biotest supplements in your state you pay Colorado sales taxes?

And why are the sales taxes different from state to state, who decides that and what is it based on?

60

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Here’s the latest news on VAT. The British are just too stupid and stubborn to accept that taxing the economy to death results in lower revenues for the government.

VAT rise will mean months of stagflation
Households must brace themselves for a painful period of stagflation-lite in the opening months of 2010 as the VAT cut comes to an end and squeezes incomes across the country, experts have warned.

Inflation will rise significantly above the Bank of England’s 2pc target and consumer spending will drop by 0.7pc in the opening months of next year, in the first taste for British households of the period of austerity that is an inevitable consequence as the Government puts its books in order in the coming years, according to the Centre for Economics and Business Research.

It said that the increase in VAT from 15pc to 17.5pc that kicks in on January 1 “has the potential of stalling an emerging recovery.”
[/quote]

That 15% was only a tampon. It was always 17.5% and when the news of the crisis came out they lowered it to 15% ( a few months ago? ) but I felt no significant impact as a consumer and many others reported the same.
In fact, at my local health store they told me that to all the American supplement companies price rises would apply as the government imposed more import taxes, or something of the sort.