There's a Lot Wrong with Britain 2.0

[Alpha_F]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

If he was Asian surely he should be good at maths…

I think you are seeing too much in racial stereotypes. Yes there are trends and tendencies that are noticeable as you travel from country to country but you encounter the full range of personality types everywhere. [/quote] Every culture is a ‘personality type’ in itself ( To me there is only one race: The human race ) cultural personality type and individual personality type create an interesting picture. In order to gain a different perspective and use better judgement into an individual’s true motivation it is at least interesting to investigate what possible forces are acting as a possible catalyst for a certain individual’s actions. It is, however, indisputable when you say personality types are found in every culture. And I personalty believe it overrides cultural type ( or stereotype as you call it ). Sometimes I fail to see the true face of a person because I am blinded by their cultural make up. So, in effect, this Asian man could quite possibly be, in his true nature, a “Latino” ( his individual personality is the correspondent of the cultural personality which is the ID for Latin ).
I just really thought it interesting you saw/interpreted his motivation in a completely different way than I did. That has probably more to say about you and me than him. Therefore, we now have :

1. My individual personality type plus my cultural personality type
2. Your individual personality type plus your cultural personality type

Four possible different windows ( assuming your individual Ptype is not the same as your cultural Ptype ), or perspectives or angles to look at a scene.

How to get a birds eye view?

[quote]
OK so you were actually talking about Indigenous South American people not what people would refer to as Native Americans or American Indians.

Well even within those people’s there is huge variation, I would seriously recommend checking out the BBC series ‘Tribe’ and ‘Amazon’ with Bruce Parry. He lived with a wide range of different native groups in Brazil and within the groups he meets you can see the whole range of attitudes. I recommend them anyway because they are compelling viewing.

You only have to read the contemporary histories written during the Spanish Conquests to see large amounts of deceit going on within and between the indigenous groups.[/quote]

Why should I trust the BBC over Hollywood?..I am joking ( I just HATE that TV licence : D )

I will try to find this. Not to keen on Amazonian Indians. I have never been to that part and it is a completely different ‘Brazil’ that I can’t relate to.
Well, I do believe when you talk about the deceit between them. I am particularly interested how they handle it as a society and as individuals.
Well, it looks like there is no where for me to go, then.
I just watched a documentary tonight about Burmese Pythons invading Florida.
GIGANTIC SNAKES…even JURASSIC LIZARDS.

Forget it.

These monsters were spotted even south of Miami.

Florida is out for me.

[Alpha_F]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Gregus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney, when the law is set up to protect thugs so they can be safe to commit a home invasion where they take people hostage at knife point, tie them up and threaten to kill their children in front their parents that is anarchy. [/quote]

The law has to treat everyone equally, that is the point. Both the burglars and the brothers committed crimes and they were both correctly prosecuted, now you can argue about the correctness of the sentences for either and I would happily agree with you however to argue that one or other party should not have been prosecuted is to state that the law is optional and doesn’t apply to everyone equally.[/quote]

LOL! You don’t even realize how off your logic is. lol. Hey here we have a rape victim who somehow shot her rapists and killed them. Well see now as a result, under the "LAW"and so as to prevent anyone from thinking the law favors one side versus the other, she has to be prosecuted. And if applicable, the death penalty MUST be pursued. Remember were trying to be equal here and send the “RIGHT” type of message.

Do you see where pure logic fails? The law must be flexible and Judges have to be Judges. Otherwise we should all get sentenced by an automated computer system.
[/quote]

Gregus, if she shot them in self defence then it is self defence and she gets off. If she hunted them down and shot them then she is guilty of murder and should be tried for the crime, she might be eligible for a lenient sentence or even an acquittal based on diminished responsibility you wouldn’t however say, oh she was raped, that explains it, no need to investigate any possible crime.[/quote]

I am sorry Cockney, I strongly disagree. I know you are quoting the “law” and not ‘your law’ ( what your instincts tell you is right to do ), but there is something wrong in there. Ok, say she didn’t kill him but hunted him down and castrated him. Is she guilty?
Well, yes, isn’t she? She has taken the “law” into her own hands. She must live and wait, as victim, for the authorities to hunt him down, because that makes it “civilized” and then avenge her by possibly locking him away, only to let him out again in a few years and rape and make more victims.

Where is the justice in that?

You constantly hear people saying they can’t move on with their lives waiting for the “law” to bring them to justice. But if they were to act in the heat of the moment on the principles of justice they also end up unable to move on with their lives because the authorities will now wait on them for doing “their” job.

I understand there may be ‘anarchy’ if people were to avenge themselves but the other way around is also monarchy - where the ‘authorities’ acting as an abstract body, have absolute and supreme power over us.

Either way we are victims.
Victims of the system or victims of individuals within the system.

[Headhunter]

"The Debt Fueled Scorched Earth UK Economy

Therefore the government is borrowing a net £175 billion for 2009 and £175 billion for 2010 to generate £15 billion of growth, and then a further £140 billion for 2011 for £42 billion of growth. Thus total net borrowing of £490 billion to grow the economy by just £67 billion, (£595 billion my forecast) which shows the magnitude of the scorched earth economic policy now implemented that literally aims to hand the next Conservative government a bankrupted economy that will be lumbered with the consequences of continuing huge budget deficits throughout the life time of the next parliament and therefore sow the seeds for a strong Labour victory at the 2014-2015 General Election."

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10990.html

And the gullible voters just keep playing the game…

BNP, now.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

If he was Asian surely he should be good at maths…

I think you are seeing too much in racial stereotypes. Yes there are trends and tendencies that are noticeable as you travel from country to country but you encounter the full range of personality types everywhere. [/quote] Every culture is a ‘personality type’ in itself ( To me there is only one race: The human race ) cultural personality type and individual personality type create an interesting picture. In order to gain a different perspective and use better judgment into an individual’s true motivation it is at least interesting to investigate what possible forces are acting as a possible catalyst for a certain individual’s actions. It is, however, indisputable when you say personality types are found in every culture. And I personalty believe it overrides cultural type ( or stereotype as you call it ). Sometimes I fail to see the true face of a person because I am blinded by their cultural make up. So, in effect, this Asian man could quite possibly be, in his true nature, a “Latino” ( his individual personality is the correspondent of the cultural personality which is the ID for Latin ).
I just really thought it interesting you saw/interpreted his motivation in a completely different way than I did. That has probably more to say about you and me than him. Therefore, we now have :

1. My individual personality type plus my cultural personality type
2. Your individual personality type plus your cultural personality type

Four possible different windows ( assuming your individual Ptype is not the same as your cultural Ptype ), or perspectives or angles to look at a scene.

How to get a birds eye view?

[/quote]

Interesting

OK so you were actually talking about Indigenous South American people not what people would refer to as Native Americans or American Indians.

Well even within those people’s there is huge variation, I would seriously recommend checking out the BBC series ‘Tribe’ and ‘Amazon’ with Bruce Parry. He lived with a wide range of different native groups in Brazil and within the groups he meets you can see the whole range of attitudes. I recommend them anyway because they are compelling viewing.

You only have to read the contemporary histories written during the Spanish Conquests to see large amounts of deceit going on within and between the indigenous groups.[/quote]

Why should I trust the BBC over Hollywood?..I am joking ( I just HATE that TV licence : D )

I will try to find this. Not to keen on Amazonian Indians. I have never been to that part and it is a completely different ‘Brazil’ that I can’t relate to.
Well, I do believe when you talk about the deceit between them. I am particularly interested how they handle it as a society and as individuals.
Well, it looks like there is no where for me to go, then.
I just watched a documentary tonight about Burmese Pythons invading Florida.
GIGANTIC SNAKES…even JURASSIC LIZARDS.

Forget it.

These monsters were spotted even south of Miami.

Florida is out for me.

I would have no issue with the TV license if you could opt to not receive BBC on your cable or sky package and not pay it. Forcing anyone who has a TV or Radio to pay it regardless of if they have an interest in the programmes on the channel is unfair. The BBC does put out some fantastic programming though. Did you watch the History of Scotland documentaries?

The Tribes in the show mainly seemed to handle things by killing each other and taking ridiculously powerful mind altering drugs which as a lifestyle choice certainly has its attractions.

As for where to live, Florida has to be out due to all the old people, regardless of the snake situation.

I can highly recommend Central Mexico for a nice balance between the mod cons and tradition.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Gregus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney, when the law is set up to protect thugs so they can be safe to commit a home invasion where they take people hostage at knife point, tie them up and threaten to kill their children in front their parents that is anarchy. [/quote]

The law has to treat everyone equally, that is the point. Both the burglars and the brothers committed crimes and they were both correctly prosecuted, now you can argue about the correctness of the sentences for either and I would happily agree with you however to argue that one or other party should not have been prosecuted is to state that the law is optional and doesn’t apply to everyone equally.[/quote]

LOL! You don’t even realize how off your logic is. lol. Hey here we have a rape victim who somehow shot her rapists and killed them. Well see now as a result, under the "LAW"and so as to prevent anyone from thinking the law favors one side versus the other, she has to be prosecuted. And if applicable, the death penalty MUST be pursued. Remember were trying to be equal here and send the “RIGHT” type of message.

Do you see where pure logic fails? The law must be flexible and Judges have to be Judges. Otherwise we should all get sentenced by an automated computer system.
[/quote]

Gregus, if she shot them in self defence then it is self defence and she gets off. If she hunted them down and shot them then she is guilty of murder and should be tried for the crime, she might be eligible for a lenient sentence or even an acquittal based on diminished responsibility you wouldn’t however say, oh she was raped, that explains it, no need to investigate any possible crime.[/quote]

I am sorry Cockney, I strongly disagree. I know you are quoting the “law” and not ‘your law’ ( what your instincts tell you is right to do ), but there is something wrong in there. Ok, say she didn’t kill him but hunted him down and castrated him. Is she guilty?
Well, yes, isn’t she? She has taken the “law” into her own hands. She must live and wait, as victim, for the authorities to hunt him down, because that makes it “civilized” and then avenge her by possibly locking him away, only to let him out again in a few years and rape and make more victims.

Where is the justice in that?

You constantly hear people saying they can’t move on with their lives waiting for the “law” to bring them to justice. But if they were to act in the heat of the moment on the principles of justice they also end up unable to move on with their lives because the authorities will now wait on them for doing “their” job.

I understand there may be ‘anarchy’ if people were to avenge themselves but the other way around is also monarchy - where the ‘authorities’ acting as an abstract body, have absolute and supreme power over us.

Either way we are victims.
Victims of the system or victims of individuals within the system.
[/quote]

But in your example, we understand the motivation, that doesn’t mean that we would expect the woman to avoid charge.

OK, lets change the scenario. You are driving in your car, someone texts you, you glance down to read it, lose concentration for a second, mount the curb and run over a baby buggy. To the parents of the baby that you kill your carelessness killed their child. You are a murderer in their eyes. They choose instead of waiting for the authorities to deal with you that they are going to hunt you down and kill you, or kill your children. And based on your logic, that is perfectly acceptable.

From the outside we could all relate to their emotions, it doesn’t meant that we would expect the parents turned murderers to avoid prosecution.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"The Debt Fueled Scorched Earth UK Economy

Therefore the government is borrowing a net �£175 billion for 2009 and �£175 billion for 2010 to generate �£15 billion of growth, and then a further �£140 billion for 2011 for �£42 billion of growth. Thus total net borrowing of �£490 billion to grow the economy by just �£67 billion, (�£595 billion my forecast) which shows the magnitude of the scorched earth economic policy now implemented that literally aims to hand the next Conservative government a bankrupted economy that will be lumbered with the consequences of continuing huge budget deficits throughout the life time of the next parliament and therefore sow the seeds for a strong Labour victory at the 2014-2015 General Election."

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10990.html

And the gullible voters just keep playing the game…

BNP, now.[/quote]

OK great, please enlighten us as to the BNPs fiscal policy that would recover the economy.

[Alpha_F]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK, lets change the scenario. You are driving in your car, someone texts you, you glance down to read it, lose concentration for a second, mount the curb and run over a baby buggy. To the parents of the baby that you kill your carelessness killed their child. You are a murderer in their eyes. They choose instead of waiting for the authorities to deal with you that they are going to hunt you down and kill you, or kill your children. [/quote]
Cockney, I would kill myself. If I were responsible for an act of carelessness of that magnitude I would not only EXPECT the parents to take my life but I would offer. An eye for an eye, a life for a life: That is justice. I have a very strong conscience and I am trained not to take risks that might involve loss of life; physical or psychological. Violating others so as to cause permanent damage is not excusable. This message should be very loud and strong. And the way to make it loud and strong is by serving discipline to measure: Violators should be allowed to experience the full impact of the consequences of their actions. That is how you awaken a deaden conscience and how you sharpen it.
Violence is present.
And to the measure you chose to live by violation you will be violated. As you measure out it should be measured out to you. I have the same standards for myself as I have for others: I am responsible for the way I walk. And should I fall and my fall cause you ruin I should be ruined. Your dignity is my dignity and your ruin is my ruin. This should be the mental disposition of a people, a society, that is strong at heart and full of honour.
Respect for the sacredness of life with immediate disciplinary action at the sight of corruption.
Same standard both for the self and others.
That is the principle of EQUITY which is behind the law of “equality”; When we live by the principle of equity, every individual life has intrinsic value regardless of our position in life. Equality in law, in life, doesn’t work; no one is equal but we are all equitable.[quote]

And based on your logic, that is perfectly acceptable.[/quote]

Yes, I accept it. I would not be able to live with the death of another human being in my conscience due to my act of carelessness - that is corruption of the sacredness of life.
Life is sacred.[quote]

From the outside we could all relate to their emotions, it doesn’t meant that we would expect the parents turned murderers to avoid prosecution.[/quote]

There is no outside for me. Their pain is my pain. Their glory is my glory.
There is no duality for me - I do not live in a parallel universe.
That is exactly what is wrong with us as a ‘race’: We fail to see that your problem is my problem and eventually, sooner or a later we will all pay.

[Alpha_F]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

I would have no issue with the TV license if you could opt to not receive BBC on your cable or sky package and not pay it. Forcing anyone who has a TV or Radio to pay it regardless of if they have an interest in the programmes on the channel is unfair. The BBC does put out some fantastic programming though. [/quote] I agree with all that.[quote] Did you watch the History of Scotland documentaries? [/quote] I only watched the last one. The quality of the research and the filming/presentation is superb indeed. But I am more of a Top Gear fan, myself.[quote]

The Tribes in the show mainly seemed to handle things by killing each other and taking ridiculously powerful mind altering drugs which as a lifestyle choice certainly has its attractions.[/quote] No different from us then. On the powerful mind altering drugs; that is where I lose my attraction COMPLETELY. I am vehemently averse to powerful mind altering drugs.[quote]

As for where to live, Florida has to be out due to all the old people, regardless of the snake situation.

I can highly recommend Central Mexico for a nice balance between the mod cons and tradition.[/quote]

Oh well, Jurassic park indeed, eh? :)…Thanks for the tip!

[Headhunter]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"The Debt Fueled Scorched Earth UK Economy

Therefore the government is borrowing a net �?�£175 billion for 2009 and �?�£175 billion for 2010 to generate �?�£15 billion of growth, and then a further �?�£140 billion for 2011 for �?�£42 billion of growth. Thus total net borrowing of �?�£490 billion to grow the economy by just �?�£67 billion, (�?�£595 billion my forecast) which shows the magnitude of the scorched earth economic policy now implemented that literally aims to hand the next Conservative government a bankrupted economy that will be lumbered with the consequences of continuing huge budget deficits throughout the life time of the next parliament and therefore sow the seeds for a strong Labour victory at the 2014-2015 General Election."

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10990.html

And the gullible voters just keep playing the game…

BNP, now.[/quote]

OK great, please enlighten us as to the BNPs fiscal policy that would recover the economy.[/quote]

You can read all about it on their website. Of course, the Labours and the Consis have set it up so you’re under surveillance, so searching the BNP website might get you in trouble.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"The Debt Fueled Scorched Earth UK Economy

Therefore the government is borrowing a net �??�?�£175 billion for 2009 and �??�?�£175 billion for 2010 to generate �??�?�£15 billion of growth, and then a further �??�?�£140 billion for 2011 for �??�?�£42 billion of growth. Thus total net borrowing of �??�?�£490 billion to grow the economy by just �??�?�£67 billion, (�??�?�£595 billion my forecast) which shows the magnitude of the scorched earth economic policy now implemented that literally aims to hand the next Conservative government a bankrupted economy that will be lumbered with the consequences of continuing huge budget deficits throughout the life time of the next parliament and therefore sow the seeds for a strong Labour victory at the 2014-2015 General Election."

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10990.html

And the gullible voters just keep playing the game…

BNP, now.[/quote]

OK great, please enlighten us as to the BNPs fiscal policy that would recover the economy.[/quote]

You can read all about it on their website. Of course, the Labours and the Consis have set it up so you’re under surveillance, so searching the BNP website might get you in trouble.
[/quote]

As an advocate for them perhaps you could give everyone here a brief synopsis of their economic recovery plans though.

[Sifu]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney, when the law is set up to protect thugs so they can be safe to commit a home invasion where they take people hostage at knife point, tie them up and threaten to kill their children in front their parents that is anarchy. [/quote]

The law has to treat everyone equally, that is the point. Both the burglars and the brothers committed crimes and they were both correctly prosecuted, now you can argue about the correctness of the sentences for either and I would happily agree with you however to argue that one or other party should not have been prosecuted is to state that the law is optional and doesn’t apply to everyone equally.[/quote]

This is where you are very wrong. The home invaders and the man whose home they invaded are not equals. The invaders were somewhere they were not supposed to be, committing crimes they were not supposed to be committing. Their victim was peacefully going about his lawful business in his home.

When the home invaders were stood outside the house they were equals. But the moment they kicked open the door and invaded that mans home they ceased to be equals. The home invaders bear responsibility for all events that transpired after that moment.

Blind justice that blindly treats all people as equals no matter what they have done, is not fair, is not justice and it is very unequal. The home owner was prosecuted with no consideration of mitigating circumstances. ie the invaders kidnapped and were torturing his children in front of him. While the home invaders were given undue consideration and let off unpunished. That is not treating them equally.

Your attitude shows what is wrong with Britain today. The British have no clue of what true equality is. They have turned equality into a meaningless mantra that they mindlessly chant when they use it to justify treating people unfairly and unequally.

[Headhunter]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"The Debt Fueled Scorched Earth UK Economy

Therefore the government is borrowing a net �??�??�?�£175 billion for 2009 and �??�??�?�£175 billion for 2010 to generate �??�??�?�£15 billion of growth, and then a further �??�??�?�£140 billion for 2011 for �??�??�?�£42 billion of growth. Thus total net borrowing of �??�??�?�£490 billion to grow the economy by just �??�??�?�£67 billion, (�??�??�?�£595 billion my forecast) which shows the magnitude of the scorched earth economic policy now implemented that literally aims to hand the next Conservative government a bankrupted economy that will be lumbered with the consequences of continuing huge budget deficits throughout the life time of the next parliament and therefore sow the seeds for a strong Labour victory at the 2014-2015 General Election."

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10990.html

And the gullible voters just keep playing the game…

BNP, now.[/quote]

OK great, please enlighten us as to the BNPs fiscal policy that would recover the economy.[/quote]

You can read all about it on their website. Of course, the Labours and the Consis have set it up so you’re under surveillance, so searching the BNP website might get you in trouble.
[/quote]

As an advocate for them perhaps you could give everyone here a brief synopsis of their economic recovery plans though.[/quote]

All debt owed to foreigners repudiated. British citizens get 70% on any gilt. Budget must be in balance, no matter how noble the cause or how great the needs of any recipients of any largesse (any looting).

In short, its your bloody money. You keep it and spend it. (Nick Griffin)

[Sifu]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[/quote]
Holy wall of text Batman!

OK let me try and respond to some of that.

You say that in a Latin country the law would not punish someone for a vicious group assault that left someone brain damaged even with a prior motivation then they would not be charged.

I cannot speak for all Latin countries but certainly here in Mexico you would get charged for any crime you had committed though you might be able to bring up the extenuating circumstances in your defence (same as you can in the UK.)

You and Sifu both seem to be missing the point that beating the guy until he no longer posed a threat in your own home is different to getting a lynch-mob together and chasing after him. It takes things from being self defence into being a pre-meditated attack and is exactly the reason the guy ended up in prison. [/quote]

You are the one who is missing the point. There was absolutely nothing premeditated about what the home owner did. The reason why that eneded up in the street just outside his house is because he was in hot pursuit. This occured AFTER the home invaders flipped a switch in his head that should not have been flipped, but before he had any chance to stop, think, reflect, get over it.

I am quite certain that beating was purely heat of the moment where the homeowner was in a state of tunnel vision where he did not have much or any sense of where he was. I’m sure the only thoughts in his mihd were “protect my family” “I want him gone and to never come back”.

You and I both know that the homeowner didn’t sit in his house for a week holding a bat and looking out the window waiting for the sod to come walking by the house so he could run out of the house and give him a beat down.

[quote]

Again, you either as a society agree to a rule of law that everyone abides by or you have anarchy where the strongest get to choose the rules for everyone. There are valid arguments for both systems. In the UK, the democratically agreed upon system is the former. [/quote]

Stop being so pretentious. In Britain there is not one agreed upon rule of law that everyone abides by and there already is anarchy of the strongest. That is what armed gangs committing strong arm robbery and home invasions aided and abetted by the police and the court is. Your pretense of democracy is a bold faced lie. The majority of the people do not want the courts, the police, enabling and supporting criminals.

There is very little democracy in Britain and you know it. So don’t try to bullshit us because we are not ignorant. This is no different from how the democratically agreed upon system for enacting the new constitution that went into law December 1st was for there to be a refferendum.

The political class do whatever they want and don’t give a fuck about the people. Because for too long the British have been too spineless vote for anyone other than the Lib/Lab/Con. There is no incentive for politicians to act democratically when there are no consequences for not doing so.

[quote]
You say that you want the right to defend your home, you already have this. You make assumptions about the burglar without knowing anything about their background or even really the details of the case beyond what you have read in a very badly written biased piece in an extremely poor newspaper.[/quote]

The burglars background? Spare us your "oh the poor lad, the poor, poor, POOR, poor lad bulsshit. Save it for your Guardianista buddies.

[quote]

You ask whether the guy would go on to become a batman figure if unpunished, well no, but acts of vigilantism would likely go up, this is not a good thing as violence escalates and you end up with situations like Northern Ireland where a few powerful gangs take control of large areas of cities handing out punishment beatings to anyone that they consider has crossed them.[/quote]

People caught up in the moment defending their homes is not vigilantism. Britain already is in the grips of gang violence and the biggest gangster of all is the government.

[quote]
Finally you brought up my point about the Native Americans and slightly missed what I was getting at which is that your idea of them is based on a westernized idealisation that has taken place through popular media and is a very long way away from the truth. [/quote]

You do have a point. There was a lot of variety to the behaviour of the various tribes. The Pilgrims were lucky that they encountered east coast Indians who taught them how to live off of the land first instead of some of the plains tribes.

[Sifu]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
The reason why the British government supports criminals victimizing innocent citizens is because the British government has it’s own long sordid history of victimizing innocent citizens. They can’t recognize criminals victimizing people as wrong because they do it themselves.
[/quote]

nonsense. And if you want to talk about victimization lets talk about the slave trade in the US. Hardly a golden spot in your history. Perhaps we could extend that into claiming it explained why the US is fervently pushing for control of foreign countries and the servitude of their people. [/quote]

The Americans inherited their slave trade and all the industry that relied upon it from the British. I was referring in part to the way that the British governmnet treated the Americans causing the American revolution.

I wouldn’t go following idealistic Brits into the Amazon to create a new society I can guarantee it won’t end well. Rio would be my first choice of where I would want to live in Brazil.

Of course, Rio, that Utopian paradise of low crime and zero political corruption [/quote]

Compared to London it is a paradise of limited government control and monitoring. As far as corruption goes, Brazil is the land of the thong. The Brazilians aren’t afraid to bare their smooth brown ass for the world to see. Unlike pretentious Brits who under a guise of superior modesty keep their pasty white, zit covered ass under cover. The Brazilians keep it real they don’t use false pretenses like the British.

[quote]
Mi-yayo is a nick name for Miami. They started calling it that back in the 80’s because of all the yayo that was coming in from Columbia through Miami. It is the US but it is almost like a part of Latin America. [/quote]

Miami is pretty but soulless from my experience. Some great bars and clubs though…[/quote]

There is a lot of money in Miami. If you are Latin it is the bomb. I found the clubs were the opposite of Detroit. Miami clubs are nice facilities with god awful music. While in Detroit you can go into a run down hall that has seen better days and hear some of the worlds best music. One thing about Detroiters is we are spoiled with great music, it makes it painful to go elsewhere.

[Sifu]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

The problem with Indian reserves is they mere not put on the best land and you do have to be an Indian to live on one. You could do what I do and hang out with the black folk or just move to Mi-yayo there are a lot of latins there. [/quote]

On the Xmas party 2 days ago I was talking to one of my colleagues who tells me he is planning to start his own self sufficient community in Brazil. I am curious by this idea. Of course it will be “flawful” but it can’t be more “awful” than this.
I am not looking for a perfect society or even an ideal, just a less harmful one. Or at least one with more psychological freedom. I feel completely smothered by the government here.

Where is Mi-yayo?
[/quote]

A big drawback for me, dropping out and all, is that I like civilisation. I like central air/heating, cars, computers, roads, sewers, water treatment plants, and so on. Life is infinitely better IN civilisation than out.

What would then make a society SO bad that one would consider fleeing? The ultimate answer is TOTALITARIANISM. As such, totalitarianism often arises when a population shifts, usually when an immigrant population of a subserviant nature floods a country. This happened in America when eastern and southern Europeans flooded in a century or so ago; we got Big Daddy government.

Now its happening to Britain, slowly and inexorably. Muslims have a religion that demands subserviance and most of their countries are authoritarian, a holdover from the Ottoman Empire. Most eastern Europeans immigrating to Britain come from very subserviant populations (except the Poles).

This is why, if Britain is to have a GOOD future, it must turn to the BNP. The BNP recognizes the problems I wrote about above. You can’t have a free and liberal democracy when the population doesn’t understand the concept and is subserviant.

Racism is not the issue. Its what those races EMBRACE as a philosophy when they immigrate.
[/quote]

I would be interested to see some of the BNP candidates pressed and probed on issues other than race. There is so much conversation about race related issues, I disagree with them on a lot of this however I would be very interested to see how much political and philosophical depth there is to the BNP.

A few years ago when the green party started making noise in the UK it was very revealing to watch their candidates struggling any time the conversations moved away from the Environment.[/quote]

Good point. The reason why so much of a fuss is made about issues of race regarding the BNP is because the Lib/Lab/Con have so badly handled a wide range of issues. So the race card is a great distraction.

I’ve read through the BNP platform and some of it makes a lot of sense while some of it I just don’t agree with. Some of their views are old school, like bringing back birching. Why?Why? They have plans for lowering spending which is good, but they don’t then follow on with how they are going to lower taxes.

The only way to have any real sense of what they are about is to go to the BNP website and read their side of things instead of relying solely upon the establishment media. The establishment media will lie about the BNP and they are unashamed of their lack of impartiality. When they get caught out it generates sympathy for the BNP.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney, when the law is set up to protect thugs so they can be safe to commit a home invasion where they take people hostage at knife point, tie them up and threaten to kill their children in front their parents that is anarchy. [/quote]

The law has to treat everyone equally, that is the point. Both the burglars and the brothers committed crimes and they were both correctly prosecuted, now you can argue about the correctness of the sentences for either and I would happily agree with you however to argue that one or other party should not have been prosecuted is to state that the law is optional and doesn’t apply to everyone equally.[/quote]

This is where you are very wrong. The home invaders and the man whose home they invaded are not equals. The invaders were somewhere they were not supposed to be, committing crimes they were not supposed to be committing. Their victim was peacefully going about his lawful business in his home.

When the home invaders were stood outside the house they were equals. But the moment they kicked open the door and invaded that mans home they ceased to be equals. The home invaders bear responsibility for all events that transpired after that moment.

Blind justice that blindly treats all people as equals no matter what they have done, is not fair, is not justice and it is very unequal. The home owner was prosecuted with no consideration of mitigating circumstances. ie the invaders kidnapped and were torturing his children in front of him. While the home invaders were given undue consideration and let off unpunished. That is not treating them equally.

Your attitude shows what is wrong with Britain today. The British have no clue of what true equality is. They have turned equality into a meaningless mantra that they mindlessly chant when they use it to justify treating people unfairly and unequally.

[/quote]
Look dick head, one of the basic tennets of the law in a democractic society is that everyone is equal under the law. Whislt vigilantism might be totally understandable it cannot be supported or encouraged. We are not living in the wild west whatever your gun stroking fantasies tell you.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[/quote]
Holy wall of text Batman!

OK let me try and respond to some of that.

You say that in a Latin country the law would not punish someone for a vicious group assault that left someone brain damaged even with a prior motivation then they would not be charged.

I cannot speak for all Latin countries but certainly here in Mexico you would get charged for any crime you had committed though you might be able to bring up the extenuating circumstances in your defence (same as you can in the UK.)

You and Sifu both seem to be missing the point that beating the guy until he no longer posed a threat in your own home is different to getting a lynch-mob together and chasing after him. It takes things from being self defence into being a pre-meditated attack and is exactly the reason the guy ended up in prison. [/quote]

You are the one who is missing the point. There was absolutely nothing premeditated about what the home owner did. The reason why that eneded up in the street just outside his house is because he was in hot pursuit. This occured AFTER the home invaders flipped a switch in his head that should not have been flipped, but before he had any chance to stop, think, reflect, get over it.

I am quite certain that beating was purely heat of the moment where the homeowner was in a state of tunnel vision where he did not have much or any sense of where he was. I’m sure the only thoughts in his mihd were “protect my family” “I want him gone and to never come back”.

You and I both know that the homeowner didn’t sit in his house for a week holding a bat and looking out the window waiting for the sod to come walking by the house so he could run out of the house and give him a beat down.

[quote]

Again, you either as a society agree to a rule of law that everyone abides by or you have anarchy where the strongest get to choose the rules for everyone. There are valid arguments for both systems. In the UK, the democratically agreed upon system is the former. [/quote]

Stop being so pretentious. In Britain there is not one agreed upon rule of law that everyone abides by and there already is anarchy of the strongest. That is what armed gangs committing strong arm robbery and home invasions aided and abetted by the police and the court is. Your pretense of democracy is a bold faced lie. The majority of the people do not want the courts, the police, enabling and supporting criminals.

There is very little democracy in Britain and you know it. So don’t try to bullshit us because we are not ignorant. This is no different from how the democratically agreed upon system for enacting the new constitution that went into law December 1st was for there to be a refferendum.

The political class do whatever they want and don’t give a fuck about the people. Because for too long the British have been too spineless vote for anyone other than the Lib/Lab/Con. There is no incentive for politicians to act democratically when there are no consequences for not doing so.

[quote]
You say that you want the right to defend your home, you already have this. You make assumptions about the burglar without knowing anything about their background or even really the details of the case beyond what you have read in a very badly written biased piece in an extremely poor newspaper.[/quote]

The burglars background? Spare us your "oh the poor lad, the poor, poor, POOR, poor lad bulsshit. Save it for your Guardianista buddies.

[quote]

You ask whether the guy would go on to become a batman figure if unpunished, well no, but acts of vigilantism would likely go up, this is not a good thing as violence escalates and you end up with situations like Northern Ireland where a few powerful gangs take control of large areas of cities handing out punishment beatings to anyone that they consider has crossed them.[/quote]

People caught up in the moment defending their homes is not vigilantism. Britain already is in the grips of gang violence and the biggest gangster of all is the government.

[quote]
Finally you brought up my point about the Native Americans and slightly missed what I was getting at which is that your idea of them is based on a westernized idealisation that has taken place through popular media and is a very long way away from the truth. [/quote]

You do have a point. There was a lot of variety to the behaviour of the various tribes. The Pilgrims were lucky that they encountered east coast Indians who taught them how to live off of the land first instead of some of the plains tribes. [/quote]

You live in a fantasy land, Britain is just not like that. Seriously stop taking the Guy Ritchie movies seriously, they are fiction.

The guy went and got a posse together to go out and lynch the guy. Had it happened to me I would possibly have done the same. I am involved in an analogous situation at the moment and I can fully, fully understand the emotions. That does not mean that the law gets superseded.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
The reason why the British government supports criminals victimizing innocent citizens is because the British government has it’s own long sordid history of victimizing innocent citizens. They can’t recognize criminals victimizing people as wrong because they do it themselves.
[/quote]

nonsense. And if you want to talk about victimization lets talk about the slave trade in the US. Hardly a golden spot in your history. Perhaps we could extend that into claiming it explained why the US is fervently pushing for control of foreign countries and the servitude of their people. [/quote]

The Americans inherited their slave trade and all the industry that relied upon it from the British. I was referring in part to the way that the British governmnet treated the Americans causing the American revolution. ´´

[/quote]

The British rejected the slave trade through their court system. In the US a war had to be fought to persuade people to give up their slaves.

I wouldn’t go following idealistic Brits into the Amazon to create a new society I can guarantee it won’t end well. Rio would be my first choice of where I would want to live in Brazil.

Of course, Rio, that Utopian paradise of low crime and zero political corruption [/quote]

Compared to London it is a paradise of limited government control and monitoring. As far as corruption goes, Brazil is the land of the thong. The Brazilians aren’t afraid to bare their smooth brown ass for the world to see. Unlike pretentious Brits who under a guise of superior modesty keep their pasty white, zit covered ass under cover. The Brazilians keep it real they don’t use false pretenses like the British.
[/quote]

ok now that has seriously made me laugh. Rio has people scared to walk the streets in their neighborhood in case the police assassinate them and you call it a paradise of limited government control and monitoring. Lay off the egg nog (or more likely the crack pipe based on your recent posts)

Mi-yayo is a nick name for Miami. They started calling it that back in the 80’s because of all the yayo that was coming in from Columbia through Miami. It is the US but it is almost like a part of Latin America. [/quote]

Miami is pretty but soulless from my experience. Some great bars and clubs though…[/quote]

There is a lot of money in Miami. If you are Latin it is the bomb. I found the clubs were the opposite of Detroit. Miami clubs are nice facilities with god awful music. While in Detroit you can go into a run down hall that has seen better days and hear some of the worlds best music. One thing about Detroiters is we are spoiled with great music, it makes it painful to go elsewhere.

Miami is a bubble, these days there is not actually much money there, most of the money has been leveraged into debt multiple times over. The whole property set up there is effectively a huge pyramid scheme and the people left holding the deeds have been royally fucked.

Yes there are some cool clubs, a couple of great hotels and a truly great Brazilian/sushi fusion restaurant in Miami Beach but there is something truly vacuous about the vibe there.

[Sifu]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Glad my thread took off so well haha.

Just to throw my 2 cents in, I think that Britain is the model for what America should not be like in regards to gun laws and cameras. That was my original intent for starting these threads…

[/quote]

There is a lot in Britain and Europe that should not be a model for America. That is why it is worthwhile for Americans to have some idea of what is going on over there. Because we have politicians over here who are looking to Europe for ideas. ie VAT.

Just this year in the US there has been discussions of implementing VAT but there have been no protests because people don’t know what it is. Just like it has done to Europe, VAT would be the end of the America as a land of opportunity.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

The problem with Indian reserves is they mere not put on the best land and you do have to be an Indian to live on one. You could do what I do and hang out with the black folk or just move to Mi-yayo there are a lot of latins there. [/quote]

On the Xmas party 2 days ago I was talking to one of my colleagues who tells me he is planning to start his own self sufficient community in Brazil. I am curious by this idea. Of course it will be “flawful” but it can’t be more “awful” than this.
I am not looking for a perfect society or even an ideal, just a less harmful one. Or at least one with more psychological freedom. I feel completely smothered by the government here.

Where is Mi-yayo?
[/quote]

A big drawback for me, dropping out and all, is that I like civilisation. I like central air/heating, cars, computers, roads, sewers, water treatment plants, and so on. Life is infinitely better IN civilisation than out.

What would then make a society SO bad that one would consider fleeing? The ultimate answer is TOTALITARIANISM. As such, totalitarianism often arises when a population shifts, usually when an immigrant population of a subserviant nature floods a country. This happened in America when eastern and southern Europeans flooded in a century or so ago; we got Big Daddy government.

Now its happening to Britain, slowly and inexorably. Muslims have a religion that demands subserviance and most of their countries are authoritarian, a holdover from the Ottoman Empire. Most eastern Europeans immigrating to Britain come from very subserviant populations (except the Poles).

This is why, if Britain is to have a GOOD future, it must turn to the BNP. The BNP recognizes the problems I wrote about above. You can’t have a free and liberal democracy when the population doesn’t understand the concept and is subserviant.

Racism is not the issue. Its what those races EMBRACE as a philosophy when they immigrate.
[/quote]

I would be interested to see some of the BNP candidates pressed and probed on issues other than race. There is so much conversation about race related issues, I disagree with them on a lot of this however I would be very interested to see how much political and philosophical depth there is to the BNP.

A few years ago when the green party started making noise in the UK it was very revealing to watch their candidates struggling any time the conversations moved away from the Environment.[/quote]

Good point. The reason why so much of a fuss is made about issues of race regarding the BNP is because the Lib/Lab/Con have so badly handled a wide range of issues. So the race card is a great distraction.

I’ve read through the BNP platform and some of it makes a lot of sense while some of it I just don’t agree with. Some of their views are old school, like bringing back birching. Why?Why? They have plans for lowering spending which is good, but they don’t then follow on with how they are going to lower taxes.

The only way to have any real sense of what they are about is to go to the BNP website and read their side of things instead of relying solely upon the establishment media. The establishment media will lie about the BNP and they are unashamed of their lack of impartiality. When they get caught out it generates sympathy for the BNP.[/quote]

The BNP’s economic policy includes stopping the majority of imports this will have a knock on effect on exports and totally destroy the economy.

They also support renationalising utilities which would be a disaster (I remember how things were in the UK with nationalised utilites, rolling power outages, terrible water quality, an over priced phone network with zero additional services and non existant customer service coupled with zero accountability.

They support severing ties with Europe which would devistate foreign investment particularly from the US.

They plan on heavily taxing companies which outsource, this would cause a large number of British Companies to re-register offshore cutting the total tax income.

They basically support isolationist policies that would take the UK back to the dark ages.

Their policies are designed to appeal to the undereducated bloke down the boozer whose idea of foreign travel is sitting in the Nags Head pub in Majorca, who doesn’t read past the headlines of their tabloid newspaper and is fed up with all the darkies taking all the jobs but who isn’t a racist because he is on first name terms with the Pakki who runs the spar shop on the corner.