There's a Lot Wrong with Britain 2.0

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

I’ll give you an example of how VAT works. Let’s say you are Levi Strauss a blue jean maker. When you take raw cotton and spin it into thread or yarn value has been added to that cotton, so the Value Added Tax can be applied. When some of that is weaved into cloth more value has been added so another charge can be applied. Then when it is cut in panels and sown into jeans more value has been added. When the raw steel for the rivets and zipper is manufactured value is added along those steps as well. All of those value adding steps have to be accounted for which requires manpower for accounting and administration.

Now how does Levi pay for all those Value Added Tax charges? Why it passes them on to the retailor in their final price. Then when the retailor sells them to the consumer they pay the VAT on the final price.

The whole system requires a massive bureauracracy which costs a lot of money to keep running. This bureauracracy is also part of what is known as the “client state”. They are people who have worthless government jobs that pay well, who are dependant upon the state for their existance.

Value added tax is a consumption tax. VAT is also known as a regressive tax because it disproportionately affects the poor in favor of the rich, because have to pay a much higher percentage of their income in taxes than the rich. It is a way to keep the poor in their place. That is why the Europeans have it. [/quote]

Thank you for that. So does Levi Strauss jeans just gets the sales tax set by the state, as your example; the state of Michigan adds 6% value to the blue jeans final product? [/quote]

The way sales tax works is you pay it when you are the end consumer. So if you go into the GAP and buy a pair of jeans you will pay the price on the price tag plus the state sales tax will be added. Plus sales tax is usually charged to end consumers. If you are a business you can et the sales tax waived in a lot of cases.

ie When I worked at an auto repair facility I would go to Autozone for supplies like motor oil. Because we were buying it for a business that in turn was going to resell it to a consumer we didn’t have to pay sales tax at Autozone. But when we resold it we did have to collect sales tax from our customer.

[quote]
I remember being told different states have different sales taxes because when I was there my friend told me it would be cheaper for me to buy my motorcycle clothes in Kansas than it would in California. But I was on vacation so I didn’t go for an explanation into your taxing system.
And does that mean if you buy Biotest supplements in your state you pay Colorado sales taxes?[/quote]

Each state is almost a seperate country, so they have autonomy to set their state taxes. I think most states have a 6 percent tax now. There are several factors that could cause motor cycle clothes to be cheaper in Kansas. ie California is expensive. The cost of living in Kansas is lower so the employees in a clothes store can be payed less which is a savings that can be passed on to the consumer.

Because I buy my Biotest supps over the internet I don’t have to pay state sales tax. The lack of taxation on the internet is a major reason why internet retailors really took off at the end of the nineties.

The state legislature decides taxation for each individual state.

62

Another darkside of the British character is nosiness and no respect for privacy. The American founding fathers experiences with this is why the US constitution guarantees the right to privacy and reqires a warrant to search a persons home.

The 20,000 snooper army: Vast number of town hall bureaucrats get power to enter your home without a warrant

As many as 20,000 town hall snoopers have assumed powers to enter people’s homes without a warrant and search for information, a survey revealed last night.

The research details for the first time how a raft of intrusive laws has allowed council staff to barge into homes and businesses uninvited.

The bureaucrats are benefiting from the 1,043 state powers of entry in primary and secondary legislation â?? more than 400 of which have been created by Labour.

These include checking for fridges which do not have the correct eco-friendly energy rating, making sure a hedge is not too high and inspecting a property to ensure ‘illegal or unregulated hypnotism’ is not taking place.

Alex Deane, director of Big Brother Watch, which carried out the research, said: 'Once, a man’s home was his castle. Today, the Big Brother state wants to inspect, regulate and standardise the inside of our homes.

63

This is London:

And this is a 40-something British man dressed like a teenage gangster:

Yes, I reckon there’s quite a lot wrong with Britain.

Sorry to say this, but I’m pretty sure…

You’re fucked.

64

[quote]Sifu wrote:

I could go on and on but I think I’ve made my point.

[/quote]

Yep, sure have, enjoy reading your posts, Australia is going the same way as England.

Your posts give me a greater understanding of what is happening and more inportantly how to fight it, thanks.

65

Another darkside of the British character is nosiness and no respect for privacy. The American founding fathers experiences with this is why the US constitution guarantees the right to privacy and reqires a warrant to search a persons home.

The 20,000 snooper army: Vast number of town hall bureaucrats get power to enter your home without a warrant

As many as 20,000 town hall snoopers have assumed powers to enter people’s homes without a warrant and search for information, a survey revealed last night.

The research details for the first time how a raft of intrusive laws has allowed council staff to barge into homes and businesses uninvited.

The bureaucrats are benefiting from the 1,043 state powers of entry in primary and secondary legislation â?? more than 400 of which have been created by Labour.

These include checking for fridges which do not have the correct eco-friendly energy rating, making sure a hedge is not too high and inspecting a property to ensure ‘illegal or unregulated hypnotism’ is not taking place.

Alex Deane, director of Big Brother Watch, which carried out the research, said: 'Once, a man’s home was his castle. Today, the Big Brother state wants to inspect, regulate and standardise the inside of our homes.

66

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"The Debt Fueled Scorched Earth UK Economy

Therefore the government is borrowing a net �£175 billion for 2009 and �£175 billion for 2010 to generate �£15 billion of growth, and then a further �£140 billion for 2011 for �£42 billion of growth. Thus total net borrowing of �£490 billion to grow the economy by just �£67 billion, (�£595 billion my forecast) which shows the magnitude of the scorched earth economic policy now implemented that literally aims to hand the next Conservative government a bankrupted economy that will be lumbered with the consequences of continuing huge budget deficits throughout the life time of the next parliament and therefore sow the seeds for a strong Labour victory at the 2014-2015 General Election."

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10990.html

And the gullible voters just keep playing the game…

BNP, now.[/quote]

if the bnp ever gain a majority in parliament, its because ignorant narrow minded people like yourself become the majority and vote them in. the bnp will never be able to competantly handle the running of a county, let alone a country, so they will have to resort to totalitarianism to keep control.

67

[quote]caveman101 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"The Debt Fueled Scorched Earth UK Economy

Therefore the government is borrowing a net �?�£175 billion for 2009 and �?�£175 billion for 2010 to generate �?�£15 billion of growth, and then a further �?�£140 billion for 2011 for �?�£42 billion of growth. Thus total net borrowing of �?�£490 billion to grow the economy by just �?�£67 billion, (�?�£595 billion my forecast) which shows the magnitude of the scorched earth economic policy now implemented that literally aims to hand the next Conservative government a bankrupted economy that will be lumbered with the consequences of continuing huge budget deficits throughout the life time of the next parliament and therefore sow the seeds for a strong Labour victory at the 2014-2015 General Election."

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10990.html

And the gullible voters just keep playing the game…

BNP, now.[/quote]

if the bnp ever gain a majority in parliament, its because ignorant narrow minded people like yourself become the majority and vote them in. the bnp will never be able to competantly handle the running of a county, let alone a country, so they will have to resort to totalitarianism to keep control.[/quote]

Rubbish! The rise of the BNP is purely the fault of the Labour, Tory and Liberal Democrat, parties because they are the ones who are making the policies which are driving the voters in that direction.

If anyone can’t handle the running of a country and is guilty of resorting to totalitarianism it is Labour and the Tories aren’t going to be much better and in some cases even worse.

68

Hm. I ducked out of this thread months ago. Back then I was arguing against Sifu and others. But the discussion has turned a few corners, and now he’s talking sense :slight_smile:

The discussion of VAT is a little wide of the mark: the complexity of administration arises not because it is collected at each stage in the manufacturing chain but because if you are in the middle of the chain you get to offset the VAT you paid on the stuff coming in the door against the VAT you charge on the stuff going out of the door: but the effect is the same. Red tape everywhere, and a drag on business.

[On the other hand, consumption taxes are easier to collect, and less of a drag on entrepreneurship than income taxes, as far as I know. But I’m no economist.]

The general European model entails high taxes and high welfare - including free heathcare. And people vote for this. Political parties debate how to shift the taxes around, and add or remove tax/spending at the margins. But the over-all tax take is a much bigger proportion of the economy here than in the US. And people vote for this. There are an immense number of people dependent on welfare, for good reasons and bad.

The over-all effect is that in Europe people don’t get rich so fast - but the poor aren’t as impoverished. My ideal path would be somewhere between the two…

69

[quote]doc_man_101 wrote:
Hm. I ducked out of this thread months ago. Back then I was arguing against Sifu and others. But the discussion has turned a few corners, and now he’s talking sense :)[/quote]

Welcome back and Happy New Year to all my readers. Thanks for the compliment. I like to think that I always talk sense. :slight_smile:

[quote]
The discussion of VAT is a little wide of the mark: the complexity of administration arises not because it is collected at each stage in the manufacturing chain but because if you are in the middle of the chain you get to offset the VAT you paid on the stuff coming in the door against the VAT you charge on the stuff going out of the door: but the effect is the same. Red tape everywhere, and a drag on business. [/quote]

I understand that they aren’t collecting VAT at every step, but they are calculating it. Which requires a lot of expensive bureauracracy on the government side. But then there is also the burden of accountancy that is then needed by businesses to minimize the tax hit, get rebates etc…

I haven’t even touched on the ridiculous employment rules and other regulations that are just piled on as if it doesn’t matter.

[quote]
[On the other hand, consumption taxes are easier to collect, and less of a drag on entrepreneurship than income taxes, as far as I know. But I’m no economist.] [/quote]

You don’t need to be an economist to understand that all the bureaucracy involved with VAT means that a substantial protion of the tax is just being wasted on creating jobs for people who otherwise would not need to be employed.

With this last section you are displaying a common European misconception of the world. Europeans are stuck in a timewarp. They haven’t gotten out of the 70’s. Viewing the US and Europe as the first world, the developed world, the industrialized is an old, outdated paradigm.

Europe and US are no longer the sole industrial powers who compete with each other and Europe can more or less hold it’s own with the US. Europe and the US now have to compete against China and India. China and India are not burdened with a massive welfare state. Europe is not competitive. Europe is heading for big problems and Europeans can’t see it coming.

70

[quote]Sifu wrote:

I’m pretty sure that experience says economic growth happens faster with the burden shifted from direct to indirect tax. But really that’s window-dressing: the problem is too much tax over all.

Oh, you’re not wrong there. But we’ll have to add Americans to the time-warp: the US suffers from similar delusions, I fear.

[quote]
Europe and US are no longer the sole industrial powers who compete with each other and Europe can more or less hold it’s own with the US. Europe and the US now have to compete against China and India. China and India are not burdened with a massive welfare state. Europe is not competitive. Europe is heading for big problems and Europeans can’t see it coming. [/quote]

Yup. No disagreement there. And America too.