There Will Be Violence

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]rainjack wrote:
RebornTN wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
The first time was the “Revolution of 1800” when New England threatened to secede over a Jefferson victory. The second time was the period leading up to the Civil War. I can’t say for sure what will set everything off, only that I’m very much convinced that the time is coming soon where we’re going to have to pick a side.
mike

…or move to another country.

Whether you stay and fight, or decide to leave - you are taking up a position in the revolution.

I hate to think in these terms, but it has become increasingly obvious to me that the only way to change the path our nation is on is a full scale revolution.

I have been saying we need a revolution for a couple of weeks now. It is more than a little scary that someone sees the dire future of this nation in the same light that I do. [/quote]

OK, but think this through.

Any time something like this happens the military winds up on one side or the other, likely obeying orders one way or participating in the revolution the other way.

The citizenry of this country, even assuming every one of them took up arms tomorrow cannot go toe to toe with Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, coast guard. There’s no way. It amounts to a civilian infantry equipped with civilian small arms attempting to overthrow the most powerful super military in history.

There would be some restraint (initially at least) due to the fact that it’s happening within our borders, but if the choice became domestic shock and awe or civilian rebels occupying the capitol I’ll let you imagine what would happen.

Of course if enough of the brass sided with the people it could be a cakewalk at least as far as the initial overthrow went, assuming the brass retains control which is not a given.

I can’t envision a scenario where this kind of upheaval would lead to a return to constitutional government. It’s too late. Both parties are fielding bullshit socialist candidates and this is not 1776 when there was some parity between an armed citizenry and a trained military.

Even if the military did side with the people it would likely lead to a police state just to keep order. However the point has been made and rightly so that the % of people willing to participate in something like this is minuscule at best.

Do you really believe the population who voted these worthless slugs into office are going to have the character to rise up in defense of their creator endowed inalienable rights, if they even knew they were losing them? Har Dee Har Har!!!

42

[quote]hankr wrote:
Wow. Let’s all just take a deep breathe shall we? Obama is just another pol. So is McCain. Both want to grow gov’t - just in slightly different directions. Neither will be able to do much, given the severe recession coming next year.

Tax receipts will be way down, and maybe, just maybe, we will start living within our means again.

There won’t be a dictatorship here. There won’t be riots in the streets. There will be a rough couple of years, and we will sort things out, then the economy will start growing again.

It’s gonna be OK guys, really. Is it really so hard to believe that those who disagree with you on some points of policy can also be rational human beings who want the best for our country? Maybe they even want the best for you and yours. I know I do, regardless of where we agree or don’t.

As far as the bailout, I doubt that there are 5 people registered on the site that can give a coherent explanation of what is wrong and why the bailout is or is not a good idea. How many of you could explain what a credit default swap is, and what role they played?

Do you know why England is about to sue Iceland? Got any idea why the DOW looks like a ping pong ball?

I have learned more about economics than I ever wanted to in the last few weeks, and have read a ton of stuff, but I think I have only a fuzzy grasp of the overall issues. It is a very complex situation.

Bear in mind, even a lot of the experts are not sure what to do. So when I see people pontificating on forums and on TV - esp the “everyman” who most likely knows less than nothing, it is both funny and sad.

(Yes, I know - I’m no different - but at least I have been trying to understand it. Some of the posts above reveal a marked lack of effort to do so.)

I can tell you this with a fair degree of confidence - I reflexively shy away from gov’t manipulation of the markets, but we are WAY WAY past that this time. We now have entire countries going bankrupt (see Iceland).

We need a co-ordinated int’l effort to keep this from turning into something much worse than just another recession. But - that is happening as I type. The summit this weekend looks (at least as of this writing) as if it will produce the beginnings of a solution.

BTW - it (the bailout)has morphed yet again. It is not at all what it was when passed. Now the US will be taking an ownership stake in the banks - at least we will get something for our money this way. Maybe.

I am so smart, I even know exactly what you - yes you, the guy that is really upset and angry - should do. Get in a really hard w/out. Have a good meal. Make love with your sweetie. Get up in the am and repeat. Aside from voting, it is all you can do anyway.

[/quote]

EXCELLENT post!

(The “making Love to your sweetie” part does seem to make a lot of things much more tolerable!)

CAN I GET A WITNESS??!!!

Mufasa

43

[quote]hankr wrote:
Wow. Let’s all just take a deep breathe shall we? Obama is just another pol. So is McCain. Both want to grow gov’t - just in slightly different directions. Neither will be able to do much, given the severe recession coming next year.

Tax receipts will be way down, and maybe, just maybe, we will start living within our means again.

There won’t be a dictatorship here. There won’t be riots in the streets. There will be a rough couple of years, and we will sort things out, then the economy will start growing again.

It’s gonna be OK guys, really. Is it really so hard to believe that those who disagree with you on some points of policy can also be rational human beings who want the best for our country? Maybe they even want the best for you and yours. I know I do, regardless of where we agree or don’t.

As far as the bailout, I doubt that there are 5 people registered on the site that can give a coherent explanation of what is wrong and why the bailout is or is not a good idea.

How many of you could explain what a credit default swap is, and what role they played? Do you know why England is about to sue Iceland? Got any idea why the DOW looks like a ping pong ball?

I have learned more about economics than I ever wanted to in the last few weeks, and have read a ton of stuff, but I think I have only a fuzzy grasp of the overall issues. It is a very complex situation.

Bear in mind, even a lot of the experts are not sure what to do. So when I see people pontificating on forums and on TV - esp the “everyman” who most likely knows less than nothing, it is both funny and sad.

(Yes, I know - I’m no different - but at least I have been trying to understand it. Some of the posts above reveal a marked lack of effort to do so.)

I can tell you this with a fair degree of confidence - I reflexively shy away from gov’t manipulation of the markets, but we are WAY WAY past that this time. We now have entire countries going bankrupt (see Iceland).

We need a co-ordinated int’l effort to keep this from turning into something much worse than just another recession. But - that is happening as I type. The summit this weekend looks (at least as of this writing) as if it will produce the beginnings of a solution.

BTW - it (the bailout)has morphed yet again. It is not at all what it was when passed. Now the US will be taking an ownership stake in the banks - at least we will get something for our money this way. Maybe.

I am so smart, I even know exactly what you - yes you, the guy that is really upset and angry - should do. Get in a really hard w/out. Have a good meal. Make love with your sweetie. Get up in the am and repeat. Aside from voting, it is all you can do anyway.

[/quote]

Damn racist…

44

[quote]hankr wrote:

Now the US will be taking an ownership stake in the banks…
[/quote]

This is comforting? It’s more of what has a lot of free market, liberty loving people, pissed off.

45

[quote]hankr wrote:
Wow. Let’s all just take a deep breathe shall we? Obama is just another pol. So is McCain. Both want to grow gov’t - just in slightly different directions. Neither will be able to do much, given the severe recession coming next year.

Tax receipts will be way down, and maybe, just maybe, we will start living within our means again.

There won’t be a dictatorship here. There won’t be riots in the streets. There will be a rough couple of years, and we will sort things out, then the economy will start growing again.

It’s gonna be OK guys, really. Is it really so hard to believe that those who disagree with you on some points of policy can also be rational human beings who want the best for our country? Maybe they even want the best for you and yours. I know I do, regardless of where we agree or don’t.

As far as the bailout, I doubt that there are 5 people registered on the site that can give a coherent explanation of what is wrong and why the bailout is or is not a good idea.

How many of you could explain what a credit default swap is, and what role they played? Do you know why England is about to sue Iceland? Got any idea why the DOW looks like a ping pong ball?

I have learned more about economics than I ever wanted to in the last few weeks, and have read a ton of stuff, but I think I have only a fuzzy grasp of the overall issues. It is a very complex situation.

Bear in mind, even a lot of the experts are not sure what to do. So when I see people pontificating on forums and on TV - esp the “everyman” who most likely knows less than nothing, it is both funny and sad.

(Yes, I know - I’m no different - but at least I have been trying to understand it. Some of the posts above reveal a marked lack of effort to do so.)

I can tell you this with a fair degree of confidence - I reflexively shy away from gov’t manipulation of the markets, but we are WAY WAY past that this time. We now have entire countries going bankrupt (see Iceland).

We need a co-ordinated int’l effort to keep this from turning into something much worse than just another recession. But - that is happening as I type. The summit this weekend looks (at least as of this writing) as if it will produce the beginnings of a solution.

BTW - it (the bailout)has morphed yet again. It is not at all what it was when passed. Now the US will be taking an ownership stake in the banks - at least we will get something for our money this way. Maybe.

I am so smart, I even know exactly what you - yes you, the guy that is really upset and angry - should do. Get in a really hard w/out. Have a good meal. Make love with your sweetie. Get up in the am and repeat. Aside from voting, it is all you can do anyway.

[/quote]

It is EXACTLY this starry eyed trusting attitude that got us where we are today. We are really in trouble in this country.

46

Just another “GFR” Classic for those wanting to leave America…

Mufasa

47

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
hankr wrote:
Wow. Let’s all just take a deep breathe shall we? Obama is just another pol. So is McCain. Both want to grow gov’t - just in slightly different directions.

Neither will be able to do much, given the severe recession coming next year. Tax receipts will be way down, and maybe, just maybe, we will start living within our means again.

There won’t be a dictatorship here. There won’t be riots in the streets. There will be a rough couple of years, and we will sort things out, then the economy will start growing again.

It’s gonna be OK guys, really. Is it really so hard to believe that those who disagree with you on some points of policy can also be rational human beings who want the best for our country?

Maybe they even want the best for you and yours. I know I do, regardless of where we agree or don’t.

As far as the bailout, I doubt that there are 5 people registered on the site that can give a coherent explanation of what is wrong and why the bailout is or is not a good idea.

How many of you could explain what a credit default swap is, and what role they played? Do you know why England is about to sue Iceland? Got any idea why the DOW looks like a ping pong ball?

I have learned more about economics than I ever wanted to in the last few weeks, and have read a ton of stuff, but I think I have only a fuzzy grasp of the overall issues. It is a very complex situation. Bear in mind, even a lot of the experts are not sure what to do.

So when I see people pontificating on forums and on TV - esp the “everyman” who most likely knows less than nothing, it is both funny and sad.

(Yes, I know - I’m no different - but at least I have been trying to understand it. Some of the posts above reveal a marked lack of effort to do so.)

I can tell you this with a fair degree of confidence - I reflexively shy away from gov’t manipulation of the markets, but we are WAY WAY past that this time.

We now have entire countries going bankrupt (see Iceland). We need a co-ordinated int’l effort to keep this from turning into something much worse than just another recession. But - that is happening as I type. The summit this weekend looks (at least as of this writing) as if it will produce the beginnings of a solution.

BTW - it (the bailout)has morphed yet again. It is not at all what it was when passed. Now the US will be taking an ownership stake in the banks - at least we will get something for our money this way. Maybe.

I am so smart, I even know exactly what you - yes you, the guy that is really upset and angry - should do. Get in a really hard w/out. Have a good meal. Make love with your sweetie. Get up in the am and repeat. Aside from voting, it is all you can do anyway.

EXCELLENT post!

(The “making Love to your sweetie” part does seem to make a lot of things much more tolerable!)

CAN I GET A WITNESS??!!!

Mufasa
[/quote]

Seconded. There’s a few too many conspiracy theories going around this last week on this forum.

48

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

I am so smart, I even know exactly what you - yes you, the guy that is really upset and angry - should do. Get in a really hard w/out. Have a good meal. Make love with your sweetie. Get up in the am and repeat. Aside from voting, it is all you can do anyway.

It is EXACTLY this starry eyed trusting attitude that got us where we are today. We are really in trouble in this country.

[/quote]

You could be right - but I think my last paragraph still applies, and I do believe that we are a nation of good people, and that things will be worked out. I hear MY sweetie coming in, so I ma going to follow my own advice.

PS GO Redskins! (Oh wait, damn)

49

hankr:

I take it that she is “Some Kind of Wonderful”?

Mufasa

50

By the way…

NO one should be “happy” about the Government owning banks.

(I didn’t interpret hankr’s last EDIT as implying some kind of jubilation over the recent Government actions…)

Mufasa

51

Something certainly needs to happen. I don’t think anyone in their right mind could be happy with EITHER party or the leadership of the current government.

But I really don’t see a violent revolution as a good solution. And don’t see it happening either.

52

Maybe the massive incompetence is the impetus we need to finally get a viable third party.

I would be part of a grassroots effort and get behind it the second something exists that has ideals that seem like a viable alternative to me. I would try to mobilize popular support so we’re not simply stuck voting the lesser of two evils or throwing away our vote.

53

[quote]hankr wrote:
Wow. Let’s all just take a deep breathe shall we? Obama is just another pol. So is McCain. Both want to grow gov’t - just in slightly different directions.

Neither will be able to do much, given the severe recession coming next year. Tax receipts will be way down, and maybe, just maybe, we will start living within our means again.

There won’t be a dictatorship here. There won’t be riots in the streets. There will be a rough couple of years, and we will sort things out, then the economy will start growing again.

It’s gonna be OK guys, really. Is it really so hard to believe that those who disagree with you on some points of policy can also be rational human beings who want the best for our country? Maybe they even want the best for you and yours. I know I do, regardless of where we agree or don’t.

As far as the bailout, I doubt that there are 5 people registered on the site that can give a coherent explanation of what is wrong and why the bailout is or is not a good idea.

How many of you could explain what a credit default swap is, and what role they played? Do you know why England is about to sue Iceland? Got any idea why the DOW looks like a ping pong ball?

I have learned more about economics than I ever wanted to in the last few weeks, and have read a ton of stuff, but I think I have only a fuzzy grasp of the overall issues. It is a very complex situation.

Bear in mind, even a lot of the experts are not sure what to do. So when I see people pontificating on forums and on TV - esp the “everyman” who most likely knows less than nothing, it is both funny and sad.

(Yes, I know - I’m no different - but at least I have been trying to understand it. Some of the posts above reveal a marked lack of effort to do so.)

I can tell you this with a fair degree of confidence - I reflexively shy away from gov’t manipulation of the markets, but we are WAY WAY past that this time.

We now have entire countries going bankrupt (see Iceland). We need a co-ordinated int’l effort to keep this from turning into something much worse than just another recession. But - that is happening as I type. The summit this weekend looks (at least as of this writing) as if it will produce the beginnings of a solution.

BTW - it (the bailout)has morphed yet again. It is not at all what it was when passed. Now the US will be taking an ownership stake in the banks - at least we will get something for our money this way. Maybe.

I am so smart, I even know exactly what you - yes you, the guy that is really upset and angry - should do. Get in a really hard w/out. Have a good meal. Make love with your sweetie. Get up in the am and repeat. Aside from voting, it is all you can do anyway.

[/quote]

Wait… you mean there isn’t going to be a Communist dictatorship in the coutnry? And no revolution?

Damn. I think HH was waiting for his time to shine…

54

[quote]Noodle_Arms wrote:
Demiajax wrote:
Nobody except the extremists on both sides will do anything, and if they do anything illegal on a grand scale, they will most likely feel the full force of the federal government.

All the hubbub at these rallies is just talk, disturbing talk, but talk nonetheless. In this day and age, any violence planned against a politician is extremely hard to pull off. Surveillance has advanced significantly in recent decades.

There will be no revolution. For one, the standard of living in this country is too high for widespread unrest. The cost is too high for most people, the benefit too low.

The “stolen vote” issue is a complicated one. The national poll tracking has been quite dramatic over the recent weeks:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

I also doubt that McCain has anything up his sleeve.

Please keep rational thoughts and posts to yourself. The Politics forum on T-Nation is reserved for mindless right wing rhetoric, hateful & often libelous statements, and not so thinly veiled racism from all the chickenhawks who reign here from the safety of their office chairs.
[/quote]

and what exactly was this post? i say mindless rhetoric and hateful, libelous statement. good job.

55

[quote]hedo wrote:

I own a business and it is sucessful. Under the Obama health and tax plans I am going to get screwed. So are the dozen or so employees I will not be able to afford to keep. Every other business owner I talked within my industry has a similar story.

[/quote]

“You’ll figure a way to make money.”
“How?”
“Somehow.”
“But I’m telling you its not possible.”
“You’ll figure a way. It’s in your blood.”
— Atlas Shrugged

56

[quote]skaz05 wrote:
What? You mean that you don’t think McCain’s supporters are a bunch of fat, lazy, redneck, sister-fucking hicks?

You’re just scared of black people! ADMIT IT!

You are obviously a racist. Why don’t you go back to your KKK rally and burn some crosses or something. We don’t need you or your 1950s era Jim Crowe bullshit here…[/quote]

Pardon me but we don’t need that here. =D

57

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
hedo:

In my business, I’ve had to look at the two Health Care plans (McCain and Obama) also.

They both have some pluses and minuses; but looking at a few different scenarios, I simply don’t see a fundamental difference between the two plans that could account for having to release a DOZEN employees?

This can’t be argued, though. Businesses have their own circumstances and individual issues. So if Obama’s plan is going to hurt you that much more than McCains, then I definitely can see your concerns.

Question; what are the “greatly reduced freedoms” that will be suffered under Obama? Just curious.

Finally, the issues of our Government go FAR beyond two people (Obama and Pelosi); at its very core our Government is broken.

Mufasa[/quote]

Mufassa

The Obama plan is designed to drive employees into government sponsored plans. True private plans will not exist after a few years. They may for a year or two but they will not compete against the government sponsored entities without heavy costs to the employer.

I can’t pay that and will naturally let my employees go to the government plans. In the interim it will cost me increased payments.

What will really cost me is the increased taxation to my business. I am a target of the Obama tax plan. By my calculations based on the number of people I employ, and the average wage I pay them, just to stay even will cost me 12 guys, assuming I can still generate the same amount of revenue with less labor, which I am doubtful of doing. It’s a variable number but that’s my B/E plus my current profit.

I don’t think he understands the number of people employed by small business around the country and screwing the owners in the name of income redistribution doesn’t just affect me.

Loss of freedoms…fairness doctrine for one. The Dems are salivating of reinstating it. Look at what the Obama campaign has done when criticized. Threats of lawsuits and investigations.

Do you think an Obama justice department will be any better? I sure don’t. Look at the Dem controlled congress. They spent more time doing show “investigations” then passing legislation. Do you think it will be any better if they have a bigger majority and control of the White House. Gun Control…kiss the second ammendment goodbye.

Say what you want about the Republicans and conservatives in general but nobody is more socialist then a liberal who is in power. Loss of freedoms will only be the start of it.

58

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Noodle_Arms wrote:
Demiajax wrote:
Nobody except the extremists on both sides will do anything, and if they do anything illegal on a grand scale, they will most likely feel the full force of the federal government.

All the hubbub at these rallies is just talk, disturbing talk, but talk nonetheless. In this day and age, any violence planned against a politician is extremely hard to pull off. Surveillance has advanced significantly in recent decades.

There will be no revolution. For one, the standard of living in this country is too high for widespread unrest. The cost is too high for most people, the benefit too low.

The “stolen vote” issue is a complicated one. The national poll tracking has been quite dramatic over the recent weeks:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

I also doubt that McCain has anything up his sleeve.

Please keep rational thoughts and posts to yourself. The Politics forum on T-Nation is reserved for mindless right wing rhetoric, hateful & often libelous statements, and not so thinly veiled racism from all the chickenhawks who reign here from the safety of their office chairs.

HAHA, there’s a bit too much truth in this. I hope normal people start posting on here and kick the crazies back to the sidelines where they belong. [/quote]

And what exactly have you posted that is worth reading. nothing. I love the people that critize but don’t bother to start their own threads or post anything original or thoughful. Way to go.

59

[quote]rainjack wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
However, how can you not like the RICO Act? Maybe you guys didn’t have such a problem with it in Texas, but up here that one act is the only thing that has demolished the Mafia. Thank God for it.

If you are arrested under a RICO statute, they take all your shit. They effectively prevent you from being able to pay for a competent defense. You are guilty until proven innocent. The mafia is of little concern to me. Constitutional rights are. RICO gives the government the right to ignore your rights.

IF you are against the PATRIOT Act, how in the fuck can you be for RICO? [/quote]

The RICO act was designed to take on the mob and the mafia. It seizes property that was bought with money that was gained as a direct result of massive rackateering projects run by underground organizations.

I realize that you don’t care about the Mafia- good for you. But I do, and organized crime has been broken down and busted up because of it.

And if you believe that Mafia members arrested under RICO don’t mount and pay for a “competent defense”, I got a fucking bridge and Brooklyn for you.

While I understand the concerns about it, which are valid, but it did what it was designed to do. While it should not be used in civil cases (which I understand it is), it cannot be eliminated just because of the effect it had on organized crime.

This may not be important for you guys, but its certainly important to me. Don’t forget, I live in North Jersey. Anything that helps bust up the mafia is something that I see a need for.

60

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
By the way…

NO one should be “happy” about the Government owning banks.

(I didn’t interpret hankr’s last EDIT as implying some kind of jubilation over the recent Government actions…)

Mufasa[/quote]

If you think Obama and the dems in congress are not happy about this whole situation and aren’t viewing it as a golden opportunity for further expansion of government and self empowerment you are a very good natured, but nonetheless gullible dude my friend.

They are in an orgy of “jubilation” over this. They couldn’t have planned it better if they tried and they practically did.

They want us to just sit back, relax and let them handle everything. Power, once acquired on the hill, NEVER goes back to us. NEVER!!!

The inevitable destination at the end of this road is flat out tyranny. History is replete with examples.

Complacency allows creeping enslavement a little at a time until one day the people don’t even know at what point they lost control. We are becoming dangerously close.

Poo Poo, not here. Only paranoid unhinged fanatics believe things like that. Uh Huh. Just watch.