to quote blink 182, if we’re fucked up, you’re to blame.
[quote]knight9009 wrote:
I’m sure I’ll get chewed out for this but here’s a radical idea: Maybe it’s not our fault. As a 23 y/o, I’ve worked my way through a damn good college, while playing football before going on to a Master’s program, I’m really really sick of being criticized by the previous generation saying we’re just the laziest SOBs out there. “Attitude reflects leadership,” is it possible that maybe the fact that SO many parents today are crappy and take no responsibility for their children’s actions, just let their kids do/say as they please, is the reason we have so many “lazy” and entitled kids. And I mean common, it’s not like our parents were the perfect youth.
The “mature adults” are the ones who gave us Woodstock, Free-sex, and massive cocaine and pot use. Adults want to blame kids for being lazy and entitled and whatever, but maybe the blame should go inwards, because I like my friends had responsible parents who punished us for being lazy, took active roles in learning what we were doing and were less interested in being our friends and more in being Parents.
I’m not saying it’s not the individuals responsibility to be a good citizen, because ultimately, it is US who make the decisions, but we have to LEARN from the previous generation how to have integrity and grit if we will be expected to have it. [/quote]
He didn’t say it was your fault he described the general/average tendencies of your generation, and it started probably in the generation before you.
But that’s what happens when kids grow up with dyfs/youtube and retarded overprotective court systems, while both parents have to work all kind of hours to maintain a decent lifestyle. When a mother beats her child in a store now for acting a fool the video is on youtube, and she is condemned as the devil. “Time out” just doesn’t work for kids that like to push limits.
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It’s a generalization, it may not apply to YOU, but take a serious look at the average person in your age bracket. They think they’re entitled to things before even working for it.
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Those events that you listed for mature adults, are part of what led to a rise in poor parenting which led to the way youths act. For every effect there was a cause, but we can’t change the past. By acknowledging how society is now, if desired changes can be made so your children and your children’s children don’t end up exactly like your generation. Just as your generation is not exactly like your parents.
I’m on here aren’t I ?
[quote]celibrate2047 wrote:
[quote]ActionJackson wrote:
I am speaking in generalizations here but, here is what I see in the youth of today:
ENTITLEMENT-the youth of today believe that it is their right to do what they want, when they want, without regard for others. They don’t think they need to work hard to get it, wait their turn, or work under people to learn skills. They think their parents and others owe them whatever they want, with no regard for respect, earning their salt, or any ethics in general.
LACK OF DESIRE FOR ACHIEVEMENT-they couldn’t care less if they do their best, or if they ever do anything at all. There are also no consequences to this apathy, especially at school, so their behavior is reinforced on a daily basis.
LACK OF ATTACHMENT TO OTHER HUMANS-the youth of today float in and out of everything, quit jobs/teams/activities without giving notice or thought to how it affects others. They have never had to face another and ask him/her on a date and feel a chance of rejection, instead they text message 40 people who they “met” on the internet and the first response is their date for Friday night…going with that they are incredibly casual about forming any attachment to this person as they know they can discard and replace them with the greatest of ease. If you doubt their lack of attachment to other humans…try taking away their phone, or telling them they can’t text message while at work…they are addicted to the device and the ease of saying anything to anyone via text that they would NEVER say to their face. Many kids would rather be confined to the house without being able to see others than lose their cell phone…I can’t imagine choosing a phone over freedom to go do things and be with friends.
Any other opinions? [/quote]
This is the same thing my dad said and my the same thing my grandfather told my dad. So apparently nothing really changes.
Being a teacher, I can tell you that far more kids care about their grades than what you’re saying.
I’m going to assume when you were a teenager that you worked extra hours without being asked and never tried to get out early? I’m also going to assume you did a bunch of extra tasks not expected to when you were working at those wonderful fast food places as a teenager.
I remember bartending and waiting tables while going through college. I had student loans and grants and tried to work as less as possible because I necessarily didn’t need to make a bunch of money. I mean, why be at work when money is not an issue when you can be doing other things.
As far as punishment goes, the same set of standards are still in place for schools. You do X wrong, you X punishment. If they skate by on Cs, so be it. They’re not doing anything wrong. If this is okay with their parents, then this is what is reinforced as okay. They are meeting the expectations expected of them.
Remember when you were in middle school and you’d ask one of your friends that were a girl to find out if so and so liked you but to be on the down low about it?
I mean…do you really think the majority of adolescents are like what you described? What do you do for a living and how much interraction do you have with teenagers? [/quote]
Sorry for the long delay on my response, I was in the mountains enjoying a great Christmas (OK, not really sorry at all!)
Do I have much interaction with teens? I am also a teacher and coach and yes I have as much interaction with teens/youth as anyone. I need to preface this by saying that OF COURSE my generation (i’m 37) made mistakes and OF COURSE I have faults. As a coach I believe I see the best in kids. They are hard working, passionate, willing to work as part of a team, and have dreams and goals. As a teacher I see many kids without anything in the world that interests them…Many in the T-Nation have commented on the fact that it is our duty to guide them, and they are right. I do see kids take a great interest and pride in building an adirondack chair through to completion, or learning new woodworking skills (I teach woodworking if you didn’t guess).
I am not trying to say that all kids are useless, I am saying that in many the traits that many kids exhibit seem to be lingering well into their 20’s. They play the blame game about being fired from jobs and failures in other aspects of life, it is never their own fault. Yes this has occured for many generations, but it is STILL a frustration to watch talented people piss it away on being lazy…for whatever reason. At some point in time we all have to stand on our own two feet and take responsibiliy for ourselves…regardless of what kind of parents, teachers, coaches, and mentors we had as youth. I guess I chose to comment on the youth of today because that is where I see it…due to my profession.
In the words of the old proverb…“when the student is ready the teacher will appear”. To those of you that are complaining that “we” never brought you up right, parenting has also always been the same (I can use that generalization since most of you say that kids today are the same as they have always been)…So it is NOT our fault, time to man up and stand tall.
I know college instructors who have had phone calls (more than one) from parents because their kid failed their class (didnt hand in work/failed exams) and the parent chewed out the instructor because of this. Kids asking for extensions (after the assignment was due) on assignments because they got drunk the night before, or got in a fight with their BF/GF. I can’t imagine doing this when I was in university. Where is the accountability? I failed a class because I was a douche back in the day, and I accepted the consequences. It was one of the best lessons of my life (Dean’s list next semester). Failure is the breeding grounds of success, and it is unfortunate that many people don’t understand that it is not only OK to fail, but often a great lesson and even admirable when you extend yourself to the limits.
I think that these kids (as well as many from my generation) will regret their shirking of responsibility. I can only speak for myself, but I also “skated by” in school. I didn’t blame others for this when I wanted to go to university, I got off my ass and upgraded my grades and went to college. I think many people just wallow in self-pity rather than taking the difficult first step to improve themselves. Is this universal in kids and adults? Sure it is.
So was I wrong to pin this on JUST the youth of today? Sure I was, I had the blinders on heading down the home stretch for Christmas holidays. Do I still feel that these are shitty traits for kids to have? Absolutely!!!
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
People who complain about one generation being better than another are like racists. A bit more benign, but it’s a similar ignorance and the same kind of pathetic.
At it’s very core, and whether you’ll admit it or not, it’s a bunch of old people deriving some sort of confidence/feeling of superiority by being a part of a group that’s “better”. Look at pretty much any old guy that says this and you’ll see either someone who hasn’t done much for himself at all, or someone whose career/life has stalled.
People with enough individual success don’t bother with this shit, be it racism, radical feminism, this, etc.
That being said, I wouldn’t make this argument for people who say that the country’s going down the shitter. That’s a different sentiment altogether, and the reasons for those feeling could be entirely different.[/quote]
Never once did I say that I was superior to anyone. Do you really feel that older people who feel that the youth of today have some lessons to learn sit around and smoke pipes and talk about their superiority? In my case I can say it is because I give a shit about them. Even in cases where I try to mentor kids, many just don’t care (this is no different than older people BTW).
Comparing it to racism in this regard is crazy, to quote you: “People with enough individual success don’t bother with this shit”. I am passionate about helping, not lynching youth. I don’t believe this discussion is an “ignorant and pathetic” pursuit, just a discussion…nothing more.
I guess I am an “old guy” talking about the youth of today, you have implied that I am someone “who hasn’t done much for himself at all, or someone whose career/life has stalled”. I am proud of my accomplishments and I feel like my life just keeps getting better. Sure I have had a few hurdles along the way (which I am very proud to have recovered from), but it is not a dick wagging contest. I would be confident in comparing my list of life achievements with anyone, but don’t feel that it would improve my life on any level to do so.
Isn’t our country comprised of the individuals within it? I believe I live in one of the greatest nations in the world (doesn’t feel like it at -40!!!). I bitched about the youth of today while in the midst of trying to help. Maybe I shouldn’t have singled out youth, but if people are not involved in politics on some level they have no right to bitch about it.
And I don’t feel that just voting counts as involvement at all!!!
[quote]ActionJackson wrote:
Never once did I say that I was superior to anyone. Do you really feel that older people who feel that the youth of today have some lessons to learn sit around and smoke pipes and talk about their superiority? In my case I can say it is because I give a shit about them. Even in cases where I try to mentor kids, many just don’t care (this is no different than older people BTW). [/quote]
You’re right, you didn’t explicitly say you were superior- just like I didn’t explicitly state that old people “site around and smoke pipes and talk about their superiority”. That would kill the point. If you explicitly say how superior you are for being in an older generation then it’s hard not to realize how lame you are [not you specifically].
But I did make an assumption about you that I shouldn’t have. On my part I’ll say that while you may not have been deriving a sense of superiority from it, most people who make this complaint are.
But look at the part of your quote I put in bold. If it’s not different from old people why bring it up? And how are you going to complain about the youth with that as your corroborating evidence?
Fine, you may have just wanted a discussion. Like I mentioned above I shouldn’t have assumed so quick. [BTW the link I posted earlier in thread has a discussion if that what you were after…]
But it’s not crazy to compare it to racism. I did say it was more benign. And again, most people who make these complaints seem to do it while identifying themselves as part of that older group, the same way a racist would by identifying himself with his race.
See bold selection again.
OP, maybe I was wrong to insinuate that you might not be an exemplary, accomplished individual yourself. I do think I was right about most people who make this claim, however.
In your post you’ve explicitly said you don’t think youth has anything to do with it. You’ve even said you encounter dedicated kids all the time. If you are the proud person you claim to be, and you see these problems with old people too, then don’t waste your time complaining about “the youth”.
You’re gonna find turds of all ages, and working with children doesn’t really put you in any better a position to comment on all youth. Maybe the kids you teach suck. I know at least in my school if you taught English or a social studies course you would deal with turds who just wanted the credit. 9th grade French and Phys Ed., too.
LarryDavid
You are so right that I shouldn’t have spent my time complaining about “the youth”…
You said:
“You’re gonna find turds of all ages”
I say:
So true…end discussion!!!
Have a great holiday season…and sorry for my frustration rant a few days prior to the holidays!!!
[quote]ActionJackson wrote:
LarryDavid
You are so right that I shouldn’t have spent my time complaining about “the youth”…
You said:
“You’re gonna find turds of all ages”
I say:
So true…end discussion!!!
Have a great holiday season…and sorry for my frustration rant a few days prior to the holidays!!!
[/quote]
Cool :). Glad we came to an agreement.
And I hope your holiday goes well too.