The Worst Persecuted Race in History?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Squash85 wrote:
Almost every ethnic and cultural group has been persecuted at some point. My Celtic and German ancestors were conquered and pretty much enslaved by the Romans. The Irish got treated like absolute shit by the British Empire and even here in the U.S. when they first arrived.

I also want to add that almost every tribe/ethnicity/race that survives today at one point had to conquer territory and resources from others. That’s just the way the old-school game of survival worked. Think about the Muslim conquests from Spain to India, or the territory the Mongols and Turkic steppe peoples took over. Think about how the Aztec Empire conquered and subjugated weaker tribes of the same ‘race’. Think about the seasonal warfare between Native Americans and sub-Saharan Africans. Think about how the Muslims back in the Middle Ages were the ones who really started the sub-Saharan African slave trade on a huge scale (seriously do research on this before you bitch about Western slavery practices).

I’m bringing all this up because I am sick and fucking tired of the guilt trip that Whites endlessly receive for Imperialism. We weren’t the first to conquer a whole lot of shit – we just did it the best. And so the endless guilt train rolls on…

Yep. Finally somewhere here with a firm grip on history.[/quote]

A lot of nations have conquered and enslaved. Thats the point of the age of colonialism. I don’t think we (white people) get any more of a guilt trip than any other ethnic group that have conquered or enslaved others, its just that our society brings it up more often because we live in a more liberal society than that of, say, Iran.

No one in here has a “firm grip” on history. A firm grip on the belief that their “facts” are infallible, perhaps. Or wikipedia.

82

So, are we going to tally up the votes and give out an award, or something?

83

[quote]Sloth wrote:
So, are we going to tally up the votes and give out an award, or something?[/quote]

We tally up the votes,and then we all pledge to persecute the losers where ever we find them,just to bring them up to scratch.

84

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
So, are we going to tally up the votes and give out an award, or something?

We tally up the votes,and then we all pledge to persecute the losers where ever we find them,just to bring them up to scratch.[/quote]

The losers; persecutors or persecutees?

I propose that we donate our reproductive efforts to the persecutee in order to help repopulate.

Israel here I come.

85

[quote]Squash85 wrote:
Almost every ethnic and cultural group has been persecuted at some point. My Celtic and German ancestors were conquered and pretty much enslaved by the Romans. The Irish got treated like absolute shit by the British Empire and even here in the U.S. when they first arrived.

I also want to add that almost every tribe/ethnicity/race that survives today at one point had to conquer territory and resources from others. That’s just the way the old-school game of survival worked. Think about the Muslim conquests from Spain to India, or the territory the Mongols and Turkic steppe peoples took over. Think about how the Aztec Empire conquered and subjugated weaker tribes of the same ‘race’. Think about the seasonal warfare between Native Americans and sub-Saharan Africans. Think about how the Muslims back in the Middle Ages were the ones who really started the sub-Saharan African slave trade on a huge scale (seriously do research on this before you bitch about Western slavery practices).

I’m bringing all this up because I am sick and fucking tired of the guilt trip that Whites endlessly receive for Imperialism. We weren’t the first to conquer a whole lot of shit – we just did it the best. And so the endless guilt train rolls on…[/quote]

Very well said sir. This is probably one of the best posts in this thread. This is the nature of war, there is a winner and loser. I am not saying it’s right or fair, but that’s just how it is.

86

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Squash85 wrote:
Almost every ethnic and cultural group has been persecuted at some point. My Celtic and German ancestors were conquered and pretty much enslaved by the Romans. The Irish got treated like absolute shit by the British Empire and even here in the U.S. when they first arrived.

I also want to add that almost every tribe/ethnicity/race that survives today at one point had to conquer territory and resources from others. That’s just the way the old-school game of survival worked. Think about the Muslim conquests from Spain to India, or the territory the Mongols and Turkic steppe peoples took over. Think about how the Aztec Empire conquered and subjugated weaker tribes of the same ‘race’. Think about the seasonal warfare between Native Americans and sub-Saharan Africans. Think about how the Muslims back in the Middle Ages were the ones who really started the sub-Saharan African slave trade on a huge scale (seriously do research on this before you bitch about Western slavery practices).

I’m bringing all this up because I am sick and fucking tired of the guilt trip that Whites endlessly receive for Imperialism. We weren’t the first to conquer a whole lot of shit – we just did it the best. And so the endless guilt train rolls on…

Very well said sir. This is probably one of the best posts in this thread. This is the nature of war, there is a winner and loser. I am not saying it’s right or fair, but that’s just how it is. [/quote]

Define this “war” you speak of.

And can you cite a particular “war” were persecution of the innocent was an acceptable practice?

The last time I checked there were rules to this “war” thing you speak of and the intention is not to persecute non-combatants, rather protect them.

87

If we’re talking throughout history, and I think we are due to the thread title, it’s not even up for debate. Jews are and have been more persecuted than anyone. Even today if someone drops the ‘N’ word everyone gets all butt hurt but if you make a Jew joke no one bats an eye.

88

[quote]meangenes wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
So, are we going to tally up the votes and give out an award, or something?

We tally up the votes,and then we all pledge to persecute the losers where ever we find them,just to bring them up to scratch.

The losers; persecutors or persecutees?

I propose that we donate our reproductive efforts to the persecutee in order to help repopulate.

Israel here I come.[/quote]

Israeli girls are smokin’…

89

[quote]meangenes wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Squash85 wrote:
Almost every ethnic and cultural group has been persecuted at some point. My Celtic and German ancestors were conquered and pretty much enslaved by the Romans. The Irish got treated like absolute shit by the British Empire and even here in the U.S. when they first arrived.

I also want to add that almost every tribe/ethnicity/race that survives today at one point had to conquer territory and resources from others. That’s just the way the old-school game of survival worked. Think about the Muslim conquests from Spain to India, or the territory the Mongols and Turkic steppe peoples took over. Think about how the Aztec Empire conquered and subjugated weaker tribes of the same ‘race’. Think about the seasonal warfare between Native Americans and sub-Saharan Africans. Think about how the Muslims back in the Middle Ages were the ones who really started the sub-Saharan African slave trade on a huge scale (seriously do research on this before you bitch about Western slavery practices).

I’m bringing all this up because I am sick and fucking tired of the guilt trip that Whites endlessly receive for Imperialism. We weren’t the first to conquer a whole lot of shit – we just did it the best. And so the endless guilt train rolls on…

Very well said sir. This is probably one of the best posts in this thread. This is the nature of war, there is a winner and loser. I am not saying it’s right or fair, but that’s just how it is.

Define this “war” you speak of.

And can you cite a particular “war” were persecution of the innocent was an acceptable practice?

The last time I checked there were rules to this “war” thing you speak of and the intention is not to persecute non-combatants, rather protect them.[/quote]

There have been so many throughout time, you have plenty to choose from. Again you missed the part where I said that I am not saying that it’s right or that it’s fair.

90

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
meangenes wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Squash85 wrote:
Almost every ethnic and cultural group has been persecuted at some point. My Celtic and German ancestors were conquered and pretty much enslaved by the Romans. The Irish got treated like absolute shit by the British Empire and even here in the U.S. when they first arrived.

I also want to add that almost every tribe/ethnicity/race that survives today at one point had to conquer territory and resources from others. That’s just the way the old-school game of survival worked. Think about the Muslim conquests from Spain to India, or the territory the Mongols and Turkic steppe peoples took over. Think about how the Aztec Empire conquered and subjugated weaker tribes of the same ‘race’. Think about the seasonal warfare between Native Americans and sub-Saharan Africans. Think about how the Muslims back in the Middle Ages were the ones who really started the sub-Saharan African slave trade on a huge scale (seriously do research on this before you bitch about Western slavery practices).

I’m bringing all this up because I am sick and fucking tired of the guilt trip that Whites endlessly receive for Imperialism. We weren’t the first to conquer a whole lot of shit – we just did it the best. And so the endless guilt train rolls on…

Very well said sir. This is probably one of the best posts in this thread. This is the nature of war, there is a winner and loser. I am not saying it’s right or fair, but that’s just how it is.

Define this “war” you speak of.

And can you cite a particular “war” were persecution of the innocent was an acceptable practice?

The last time I checked there were rules to this “war” thing you speak of and the intention is not to persecute non-combatants, rather protect them.

There have been so many throughout time, you have plenty to choose from. Again you missed the part where I said that I am not saying that it’s right or that it’s fair. [/quote]

So says ye. You must have missed the part where I didn’t mention wether it was right or fair; rather acceptable under a conditioned set of rules to be imposed as general practice set forth by a convention of war practitioners. Your “nature of war” claim is just invalid and ignorant.

Neither imperialism nor war are synonymous with persecution. Maybe that’s just how the whites you mention see it.

Just saying.

91

I might add that the men who designed this protocol must not be the same white people you mention. Don’t speak of the “nature” of something unless you fully comprehend its origin. Again, the purpose of war is not to persecute, rather the opposite.

Nor should you perpetrate these acts unless you fully comprehend the repercussions that you and your decendents will bear.

92

How many countries are following those rules? Rules are worthless if no one follows them, and there are more people than just whites who are breaking laws with torture.

Persecution and war are related when you no longer want to be persecuted. Do you think people will just willingly stop? Has this worked in the Middle East? Some people are committed to their cause, and are willing to kill for it. That is the measure of their resolve. Are you going to break out a conditioned set of rules when bullets are flying at you? And you think the purpose of war is not to persecute? What rock have you been living under?

Imposing repercussions on the descendants of people does nothing but extend a war, this is seen in the Middle East. Those people will always be fighting, even with your conditioned set of rules. And guess what, they are not even Caucasian either.

93

[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
I would say Native Africans above all other ethnic groups. Africa has long been called the Doomed Continent; many of the countries are war torn and tribes are still at war with each other. At least the Jews have their own country and government…and lobby :slight_smile:

Last I checked, Africans have the most of their own countries of any group, and every day it seems like one of them changes names or a new one pops up.[/quote]

And they are still persecuted internally, mostly by their own people, but also with political and financial support from countries like China. Israel is NOT what I would consider “war torn.” And yes, the Jewish lobby is probably the most influential in history. Not sure there’s a lobby representing the Congolese.

94

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
How many countries are following those rules? Rules are worthless if no one follows them, and there are more people than just whites who are breaking laws with torture.[/quote]

Right, and also take into consideration the Geneva Convention wasn’t even in effect when the Native Americans for the most part were being persecuted, nor the Jews, nor Sub-Saharan African/slaves. But these are three of the major reasons that these rules were instituted. Just because you choose to ignore something, does not mean it ceases to exist.

Again, this is more of a reflection of yourself, rather than a reflection of what other experienced war practitioners believe (i.e. Geneva Convention).

[quote]Persecution and war are related when you no longer want to be persecuted. Do you think people will just willingly stop? Has this worked in the Middle East? Some people are committed to their cause, and are willing to kill for it. That is the measure of their resolve. Are you going to break out a conditioned set of rules when bullets are flying at you? And you think the purpose of war is not to persecute? What rock have you been living under?

Imposing repercussions on the descendants of people does nothing but extend a war, this is seen in the Middle East. Those people will always be fighting, even with your conditioned set of rules. And guess what, they are not even Caucasian either. [/quote]

They bear the burden of their ancestors. Both sides.

Should their ancestors be held responsible for their current situation? To some extent.

Do the people living in this situation have the ability to stop? Absolutely.

Thanks for the reference. Albeit, a non-caucasian one, I never said Caucasians were always the perpetrators. Just in the cases I outlined (i.e. Native Americans, Jews in Europe, and Sub-Saharan Africans/North American slave trade).

So I conclude, if this is the way that you feel then you are simply indulging in what some might consider a guilty conscious. Although, you still do not recognize or believe that war and imperialism should not be synonymous with persecution and torture regardless of the rules set forth by the Geneva Convention.

Soldiers can avoid the issue by believing that they are just following orders, but once their commander is court martialed, do you think soldiers bear that burden easily? I don’t.

95

I do not hold people accountable to what others have done, and I have no guilty conscious because I have done nothing wrong. You pay the freight on what you owe, that’s how I roll. The Caucasian issue I brought up was due to you bringing up the “white people you speak of” reference you made. All cultures have been involved in some degree of war or persecution at some point, so according to you, everyone should be paying the price for their ancestors. Sounds like a fun world you want to live in.

I don’t think soldiers give a shit about anything but staying alive when they are under fire. Because rationality goes out with window along with their bullets. Ask a soldier who served in any war about the Geneva Convention ran through their mind while in a hot zone, let me know what they tell you.

I cannot let you take me off the map, period, understand? If that means I have to do you dirty, then so be it. Will I have a guilty conscious about it? Nope, I will sleep just fine. Getting home to my family in one piece is MY Geneva Convention, and being court martialed is better than being DEAD. If you still don’t understand that, then I have no hope for you.

96

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I do not hold people accountable to what others have done, and I have no guilty conscious because I have done nothing wrong. You pay the freight on what you owe, that’s how I roll. The Caucasian issue I brought up was due to you bringing up the “white people you speak of” reference you made.[/quote]

And my reference was a reaction to: [quote]I’m bringing all this up because I am sick and fucking tired of the guilt trip that Whites endlessly receive for Imperialism. We weren’t the first to conquer a whole lot of shit – we just did it the best. And so the endless guilt train rolls on…

Very well said sir. This is probably one of the best posts in this thread. This is the nature of war, there is a winner and loser. I am not saying it’s right or fair, but that’s just how it is. [/quote]

And again, there is a difference between war and persecution. They are not synonymous. War and persecution are not the same thing. War and persecution are not dependent upon one another. War is not persecution. Persecution is not war. Persecution does have to be during war time. War does not have to include persecution. Persecution does not have to include war. War has a different definition from persecution. Persecution has a different definition from war. War is the waging of conflict againt and enemy combatant. Persecution is the punishment of individuals based on factors such as race, religion, etc. The purpose of war is to protect the innocent from persecution. The purpose of war is not to persecute the innocent.

Let’s suppose that you did comprehend what you wrote about Israel. I will repeat what I said:

[quote]They bear the burden of their ancestors. Both sides. naturally[/quote] (see Ethnic Nationalism).

[quote]Should their ancestors be held responsible for their current situation? To some extent.

Do the people living in this situation have the ability to stop? Absolutely.[/quote]

  • Do they stop? No

Mind you, this was your reference.

Sounds like a responsible** world I want to live in.

I don’t agree with you attempting to write off the actions of the perpetrators ancestors as just some shit that ‘happens’. Neither would the United States Senate who issued an appology for 2.5 centuries of slavery in June of 2009. Where was the “war” that ‘justified’ this particular incident of slavery?

News flash: If your “persecutees” are shooting at you. You should shoot back. At this point you can move them from the category of ‘non-combatant’ to ‘combatant’.

A textbook example of what you should not do to your Hors de combat can be found here. Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse - Wikipedia

I understand, but be clear on the diffference between persecution and armed conflict.

97

The take home lesson from this thread: You should always strive to be as strong as you can be…dont ever count on the mercy of others…

Yet another reason liberals should be outlawed.

//thread

98

You are making this much more difficult than it needs to be. You have 2 choices with persecution, either accept it or you don’t. If you don’t, then you deal with how they won’t accept it.

Should my people be apologizing to a significant part of the world because of the Roman Empire and it’s conquests? Christ man, this is 2009, get over it and move forward with your thinking. Is everyone going to sit around pouting and crying over wars that happened so many years ago, when none of us were even around?

Yea I think you should treat POW’s with human decency of course. Abu Ghraib was a huge fuck up, no one can argue that.

Valor is right, you need to be ready for conflict if it happens, and yes Liberalism should be outlawed as well.

99

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
In the history of EVERYTHING a group has never been discriminated against. Only individuals have.

It is impossible to wrong a group because a group has no rights. Only individuals do.

To assign rights and wrongs to groups is to say that we are not equal as humans.
[/quote]

X 2

And since two posters agree in this thread, this debate is now officially over. Individual liberty has been the most persecuted throughout history, and into today.

:slight_smile:

And Valors post is reminding me that I should order more ammo…

100

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
You are making this much more difficult than it needs to be. You have 2 choices with persecution, either accept it or you don’t. If you don’t, then you deal with how they won’t accept it.

Should my people be apologizing to a significant part of the world because of the Roman Empire and it’s conquests? Christ man, this is 2009, get over it and move forward with your thinking. Is everyone going to sit around pouting and crying over wars that happened so many years ago, when none of us were even around?

Yea I think you should treat POW’s with human decency of course. Abu Ghraib was a huge fuck up, no one can argue that.

Valor is right, you need to be ready for conflict if it happens, and yes Liberalism should be outlawed as well. [/quote]

Yes Romans should be sorry for spreading civilization…as sorry was the whites who brought the ideals of freedom, equality, hard work, and self rule…who created virtually everything of value in this world… Sure whites F’ed up here and there, so sorry for your luck.

The bottom line is the ideals that survived and flourished in white euro societity created the blue print for indvidual freedom and silly things like freedom of speech and self determination. The world should just say: Thank you, and pick up the ball…instead whites are blamed for every social ill.

The forces that claim they want equality really just want to lord over whites…