My deadlift weakpoint is off the floor, and I hope my question is clear. I know this isn’t excatly a Westside question, but it kind of is and I plan on running it soon anyway.
During speed deadlifts, or a regular dl, would it be beneficial to use 1 45 lb plate on each side and then use 35 and 10 lb plates to make up the rest of the weight if I want to have better starting strength?
My thinking is the less plates that touch the ground to begin with the harder it is to break the bar from the floor, and that should make it easier to break from the floor when multiple 45 lb plates are used.
[quote]S.Fisher_47 wrote:
My deadlift weakpoint is off the floor, and I hope my question is clear. I know this isn’t excatly a Westside question, but it kind of is and I plan on running it soon anyway.
During speed deadlifts, or a regular dl, would it be beneficial to use 1 45 lb plate on each side and then use 35 and 10 lb plates to make up the rest of the weight if I want to have better starting strength?
My thinking is the less plates that touch the ground to begin with the harder it is to break the bar from the floor, and that should make it easier to break from the floor when multiple 45 lb plates are used.
Am I over thinking things?[/quote]
There shouldn’t be any affect. The surface area touching the floor doesn’t change the forces that must be overcome to put the barbell in vertical motion.
An old school technique is to use all 35lb plates tho. Since the plates are a little shorter, your starting position will be lower and it might help you from the bottom. Could be worth a shot. Some people like these, some people don’t.
[quote]S.Fisher_47 wrote:
My deadlift weakpoint is off the floor, and I hope my question is clear. I know this isn’t excatly a Westside question, but it kind of is and I plan on running it soon anyway.
During speed deadlifts, or a regular dl, would it be beneficial to use 1 45 lb plate on each side and then use 35 and 10 lb plates to make up the rest of the weight if I want to have better starting strength?
My thinking is the less plates that touch the ground to begin with the harder it is to break the bar from the floor, and that should make it easier to break from the floor when multiple 45 lb plates are used.
Am I over thinking things?[/quote]
I don’t think that would have any effect on breaking it off the floor. If the bar was bending 1"+, it would obviously make sense, but otherwise it wouldn’t matter. If you’re a conv. deadlifter, I’ve found a lot of help in using deficit deadlifts, using conv. and sumo styles.
I have a few questions I hope you guys don’t mind me asking here; I thought it would be better than starting a new thread and hopefully the answers may help other readers too, so here goes:
Whilst working on dynamic work during the accumulation phase, what sort of time should I be working on for my 25 x2 @50%1RM? I’m guessing it will be harder on squat and DL’s days, so they might be a bit higher? I timed myself on DL’s today and made 25 x2@50%1RM in 16 minutes, but that was after ten sets of box squats, and it was tough! The first ten sets were easy in comparison to the last 15, but I couldn’t maintain the pace and obviously got slower and slower.
On max effort work, would I be correct in thinking that 70% work should be good mornings, 20% squats and the remaining 10% DL’s?
on dynamic day should I just pick squats or DL’s for my 25x2 or is there a particular way they should be worked in? I’m sure I read in the WSBOM that dynamic DL’s should be trained after squats at 10 x2-3, is this correct? Can anyone share how they have worked them in successfully?
Floor presses: These are a recent introduction to my training and I like them. Can anyone tell me what their best floor press is in relation to their best bench press? i found I could move slightly more weight in the floor press but not that much, I’m curious to see what the relationship is between the two in other lifters if people don’t mind sharing.
14" cambered bar squat: I find it tricky squatting below parallel with this (I know the simple answer will be, ‘well don’t then’) I was wondering what height (as in inches above or below parallel) people prefer to squat with this bar at? I’m thinking an inch or two above parallel, at least until my lower back gets used to the extra strain. Again, I’d be grateful if people could share their experiences.
The 25x2@50%1RM is without chains or bands, correct? Just 50% and moving the bar as fast as possible?
If by pace, you mean the time inbetween sets, yeah inevitably the rest gets longer. Make sure your last set is just as fast the first. If it isn’t, you didn’t rest enough between sets. But the next week, rest times should go down and it won’t kill you nearly as much the next day. And 20-25 squat sets followed by ~10 DLs for speed singles at ~50. I do 55% for 18 singles and 12 singles this accumulation block. Trying to get more pulls in to focus on getting my DL up is why. First week was 22 minutes for 21x2 @ 50%. Second week was close to 17 minutes for 21x2 @ 50%. I didn’t time the DL since I wanted to focus more on good setup and form and speed. Time will tell if that was a good idea.
I remember reading that in the book of methods and I never tried it really. Hopefully someone else will chime in on that one.
I think I answered that in A1.
My moderate grip floor press with a 3count (about a full second) is 205x4. My max at the moment for bench press is 275 with a wide grip. If you beleive in one-rep calculator that’s a difference of 50lbs.
Never used a cambered bar. Not sure if this helps, but I can SSB squat at any depth. I’m currently experimenting with parallel box and high box for the SSB.
No chains or bands. If you do decide you have a really good reason to use them for that, don’t use much. I think I would puke my guts up during the workout and be bed-ridden for days if I tried to use much band tension for 25x2 dynamic work lol.
If by pace, you mean the time inbetween sets, yeah inevitably the rest gets longer. Make sure your last set is just as fast the first. If it isn’t, you didn’t rest enough between sets. But the next week, rest times should go down and it won’t kill you nearly as much the next day. And 20-25 squat sets followed by ~10 DLs for speed singles at ~50. I do 55% for 18 singles and 12 singles this accumulation block. Trying to get more pulls in to focus on getting my DL up is why. First week was 22 minutes for 21x2 @ 50%. Second week was close to 17 minutes for 21x2 @ 50%. I didn’t time the DL since I wanted to focus more on good setup and form and speed. Time will tell if that was a good idea.
I remember reading that in the book of methods and I never tried it really. Hopefully someone else will chime in on that one.
I think I answered that in A1.
My moderate grip floor press with a 3count (about a full second) is 205x4. My max at the moment for bench press is 275 with a wide grip. If you beleive in one-rep calculator that’s a difference of 50lbs.
Never used a cambered bar. Not sure if this helps, but I can SSB squat at any depth. I’m currently experimenting with parallel box and high box for the SSB.
No chains or bands. If you do decide you have a really good reason to use them for that, don’t use much. I think I would puke my guts up during the workout and be bed-ridden for days if I tried to use much band tension for 25x2 dynamic work lol.
Hope that helps.[/quote]
That’s great, thanks. By the end of those DL’s I was focusing more on trying to keep the time down, I didn’t sacrifice technique, but I definitely wasn’t as explosive as I would have been if I rested longer. I am trying to bring my DL up which is why I chose 25x2 on them, over the squat, but I will do the 23x2 squat and 10x1 with bands on the DL next time.
The 14" bar is new to me which is why I’m finding it awkward. I wish the made a safety squat bar with a 14" camber but they don’t unfortunately.
I quite like STB’s way of doing ME and then a heavy barbell movement afterwards. What do you guys think though - if I’m more of a beginner should that be a 6RM still or maybe something with more volume like a 3x5?
I know it doesn’t matter TOO much but there is quite a big difference in the two I’d imagine.
In relation to one of the questions from above my floor press max at the moment is 102.5kg and my flat bench is 110kg so thats a difference of around 7.5kg/20lbs.
I have a question relating to the transformation phase.
I understand the general outline is as follows:
Week 1 - 1RM Test
Week 2 - 90% of 1RM
Week 3 - 50% of 1RM 2 sets of 2 reps
Week 4 - Competition
My first question is regarding the assistance work - how does this alter across these four weeks? I think the general belief in periodization of other sports is that volume and intensity should decrease between 41% - 60% across this phase of training in order to produce the supercompensation effect so you can perform at a competition. Do you find this is similar to what happens with powerlifting? I was thinking of progressively reducing sets and reps across the four weeks but keeping the same number of exercises.
Secondly, in the first week of the transformation phase are the 1RM tests Squat, Bench Press and Deadlift? Or do you still refrain from pulling heavy?
I have been in touch with Matt Kroc, Jim Wendler and Westside Barbell and they all seem to have their own take on it. Do you find it is more of a trial and error process?
On side note for anyone interested in comparisons this is how my training is going at the moment for bench/squat with regard to special exercises and actual maxes
Bench
1RM 2 board - 130kg - 1 rep max 1 board - 112.5kg, 1 rep max flat bench - 110kg 1 - rep max floor press - 102,5kg
1RM Good Morning - 160kg, 1 rep max Box Squat 172.5kg (2 inches below parallel - IPF legal).
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
I quite like STB’s way of doing ME and then a heavy barbell movement afterwards. What do you guys think though - if I’m more of a beginner should that be a 6RM still or maybe something with more volume like a 3x5?
I know it doesn’t matter TOO much but there is quite a big difference in the two I’d imagine.
Thanks.[/quote]
I consider myself a beginner , and I use a 3x5 set up for heavy supplemental (but after DE sets). reason is the extra volume as you stated . not gunnin’ for PRs…just heavy’ish reps .
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
I quite like STB’s way of doing ME and then a heavy barbell movement afterwards. What do you guys think though - if I’m more of a beginner should that be a 6RM still or maybe something with more volume like a 3x5?
I know it doesn’t matter TOO much but there is quite a big difference in the two I’d imagine.
Thanks.[/quote]
If you are a beginner (although that is quite a broad term), it my be necessary to gain or lose weight in order to ‘move’ into the most suitable weight class (for you), I found reps of 3-5 more suitable than 1RM’s when I started lifting and still use triples often. I am also trying to gain weight though as I am 6.2" and currently 230LBs.
[quote]ThermalWarrior wrote:
In relation to one of the questions from above my floor press max at the moment is 102.5kg and my flat bench is 110kg so thats a difference of around 7.5kg/20lbs.
[/quote]
My best flat bench is 110KG, I managed 110KG x3 on the floor press and just made it. I haven’t actually tested my 1RM bench for a while so it may be a little over 110KG now on a good day. Thanks for sharing TW, if you don’t mind me asking, how tall are you?
Are the speed and technique good ?[/quote]
Come on, guys >.<
One more question. Do you guys use leg drive on the floor press ? Dave Hoff told me not to, but I’ve seen them use it in the videos :/.
I don’t use any leg drive on floor press. I have seen videos of like Dave Tate sticking his ass way up to get some kind of leg drive but it’s meant to be funny as it’s called “How NOT to floor press”.
Honestly, I wouldn’t. I think the floor press is meant to teach you how to be strong without leg drive - isn’t that one of its purposes? I mean, in the end you can do it both ways. Getting stronger is getting stronger. If you go 100kg to 110kg with leg drive it’s still strength.
The video doesn’t look bad but you seem like you’re not tight enough. I may be wrong as it’s hard to tell through a video but you do seem a bit loose. Overall I think it’s fairly good though.
Take my advice what you will - I’m not especially strong so I can understand you’d rather someone like STB comment.
LoveSquatting. Set the chains lower. Ideally you want to have 2-3 links on the floor at all times. This keeps the chains from swinging and turning it into a stability thing.
You should have your wrists and elbows directly aligned UNDER the bar. On the eccentric, they should go directly down, rather than flare the elbows to the side. Pause your vid when you touch on your chest and notice how flared your elbows are in relation to your wrists - you are losing lots of power that way. This is why when you blast it off your chest (thanks to back nad leg drive) you slow down 1/3 on the way up - the elbows are trying to catch up and align with the wrist position.
If it doesn’t make sense watch this -
Due to your hands being closer you will touch lower on the chest to keep the elbows and the wrists aligned. As a rule of thumb - the closer your grip, the lower you will touch (and vice versa)
Hope that helps. Other than that - when at the bottom def think about driving yourself INTO the bench and away from the bar - that will keep you stable and tight on the bench
