The Westside Method Thread

Training Powerlifting
61

[quote]PlainPat wrote:
With accumulation is the set up I mentioned still pretty good as long as I address my weaknesses more i.e. in my squat it’s hamstring strength so I’d hit more hamstring volume and in bench its my triceps/shoulders so I’d spend more time on those?[/quote]

Yes. Just add more volume for those areas. For example, my tricpes are the weak point in my bench(at least the were, not it feels like it is my upper back) here is exactly what I have been doing to bring those up:

ME or DE Bench Exercise

Immediately to either:

-DB Bench for one big set (like the 50lbs DBs for 100 reps or the 80s on an incline for 50 reps, something likt that, just one set to failure)
-Without rest, go right to heavy (6rm) barbell extensions

or

-Heavy barbell extensions
-Without rest, 5x10 w/10s rest between sets of tricep pushdowns or db extensions

After that, I would just go on with the rest of the session. You can call this whatever you want, pre-exhaust, pain tolerance training whatever. It is the only real thing I have changed in my bench training and my bench is up about 30lbs. Which is completely nuts because my bench hasnt gone up 30lbs in the last 3 years and I have only been following this protocol since March.

Anyway, just find a way to get more volume with the lagging areas. Like I said before, if what you are doing is working, you will find new weaknesses as you get stronger, then you can start hitting that area hard as shit. Then you keep progressing.

62

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
Speed requires you to be at 100%. This means zero fatigue. After your heavy lifting you are fatigued, or at least you should be!
[/quote]

Whats your opinion on the first half of this program where it has speed lifts 2nd?

Also for raw lifting, are box squats the only thing used in DE lower or is there something else that might be better if raw squats don’t get a good carryover from box squats?[/quote]

Honestly, that makes no sense to me. The pulls might be moving fast, but its not Dynamic Efforts that he is doing. Keep in mind as well, he is a 1,000lb deadlifter… and a 1200lb sqautter. What works for him is going to be very different from what other people do. Also keep in mind, he has not pulled over a grand in a few years, so something in his training is not optimal.

Definitely use the box for early on in training. Ditch it as the meet gets closer. I take it away completely in the Transformation Block when I’m going raw. Also, make sure to vary the height often and make sure your BOX SQUAT form is good. I put that in upper case because box squat form is going to be different than your raw free squat form.

I would strongly suggest adding in some reactive jumping and explosive plyometrics as well. These seem to have a HUGE carryover to raw squats.

63

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
Storm (or anybody else who may be knowledgeable), what do you think of just using bands for extra workouts?
For example, right here in my dorm room I can foam roll, do tennis ball work, stretch, do mobility stuff, etc, and then throw in some band face pulls, tricep pushdowns (loop the band around the top of my lofted bed), and even some bicep work, which I rarely do in the gym, among other things.
Is this optimal for a mini workout, or should I just get in the gym for 20-30 minutes and do what you’ve already outlined?[/quote]

Sounds great actually. Get to the gym when you can but if you can manage to get in a few extra workouts a week in your dorm, that is awesome.

64

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

Definitely use the box for early on in training. Ditch it as the meet gets closer. I take it away completely in the Transformation Block when I’m going raw. Also, make sure to vary the height often and make sure your BOX SQUAT form is good. I put that in upper case because box squat form is going to be different than your raw free squat form.

I would strongly suggest adding in some reactive jumping and explosive plyometrics as well. These seem to have a HUGE carryover to raw squats.[/quote]

Could you go into a little more depth about box squat form? In my mind, box squat form would be wider stance and really sitting back into the squat. Where as the free squat form would be a closer stance, still breaking at the hips first, but not sitting back as much (nothing to sit back onto or my hips/hams/glutes are just too weak). Am i close?

65

I see these terms thrown around a lot and I have no idea what is meant by them:

speed-strength VS strength-speed?

If in the GPP phase you do Lactic Acid Tolerance training on your dynamic days, where in the training block does speed-strength training come in, and strength-speed?

Thanks chief - this thread is a goldmine!

66

So on DE squat day, you’re not supposed to use your competition form for the box squats?

67

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
So on DE squat day, you’re not supposed to use your competition form for the box squats?[/quote]

I was wondering that as well - if for box squats you use box squat form, then you are not really practicing your competition squat “year-around” every week. Then at what phase would you ever actually master your competition lifts? Surely a 2-3 week block before a competition, when you actually start doing your competition lifts, is not enough time to master the technical intricacies involved in those same lifts… Can you elaborate on that Storm?

68

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
Storm (or anybody else who may be knowledgeable), what do you think of just using bands for extra workouts?
For example, right here in my dorm room I can foam roll, do tennis ball work, stretch, do mobility stuff, etc, and then throw in some band face pulls, tricep pushdowns (loop the band around the top of my lofted bed), and even some bicep work, which I rarely do in the gym, among other things.
Is this optimal for a mini workout, or should I just get in the gym for 20-30 minutes and do what you’ve already outlined?[/quote]
I do this a lot and I think it helps. Don’t forget that you can do X-band walks, band GMs, knee outs, and curls too!

69

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
So on DE squat day, you’re not supposed to use your competition form for the box squats?[/quote]

No, you shouldnt. Your comp squat and box squat should be two different movements, IMO. When I box squat, I like to sit back as far as I can, really hammering the hamstrings, glutes and lower back. When I free squat, I cant sit back that far, thus them being two different movements. I hope this helps a little

70

[quote]mlekava000 wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
So on DE squat day, you’re not supposed to use your competition form for the box squats?[/quote]

I was wondering that as well - if for box squats you use box squat form, then you are not really practicing your competition squat “year-around” every week. Then at what phase would you ever actually master your competition lifts? Surely a 2-3 week block before a competition, when you actually start doing your competition lifts, is not enough time to master the technical intricacies involved in those same lifts… Can you elaborate on that Storm?[/quote]

Yea I can elabortate. I appologize, I see how what I said could be very confusing. The answer is yes and no. Box Squat form is exaggerated free squat form. The box is there, so you can put your feet wider and sit back further without falling down and killing yourself. Box squatting correctly, you should be handling weight lower than your competition PRs because you have taken away some mechanical advantage. Again, everything is exactly the same, just taken to the extreme. That being said, if you are competing raw, as the meet gets closer, you should start bringing your feet in and start mimicing your competition form. This isnt saying the box squatting won’t transfer to you free squat, because it will if you do it right, but you should practice the competition form as the competition gets closer.

No technique is not mastered in 2-3 weeks. It also is not mastered in 2-3 decades. Its a prgressive improvement from competition to competition by developing the weaknesses that don’t allow you to get in optimal position and have the best mechanical advantage.

Personally, I don’t free squat in training with a regular barbell unless it is the week before the meet or I am doing an extra workout. But this is because my weaknesses don’t require that skill to be developed. My thoracic mobility/strength sucks, so thats waht fails first. So thats what I train to get my squat higher, for now anyway.

Does this make a little more sense now?

71

[quote]mlekava000 wrote:
I see these terms thrown around a lot and I have no idea what is meant by them:

speed-strength VS strength-speed?

If in the GPP phase you do Lactic Acid Tolerance training on your dynamic days, where in the training block does speed-strength training come in, and strength-speed?

Thanks chief - this thread is a goldmine![/quote]

Speed Strength=lighter band tension/bar weight/chain combo with an emphasis on maximizing force through bar speed

So, the most popular set-up is:
Squat-
Week 1- 50% bar weight + 25% in band tension for 12x2
Week 2- 55% bar weight + the same
Week 3- 60% bar weight + the same for 10x2
Week 4- repeat

Strength Speed=heavy band tension/bar weight/chain combo with an emphasis on maximizing force through repeated strain.

It could look something like this:
Week 1- 40% bar weight + 40% band Tension for 8x2
Week 2- Same + 50% for 6x2
Week 3- Same Band Tension and work up to a max double in bar weight
Week 4- Deload if you havent killed yourself yet.

The Strength Speed work is hard to diagnose. If you are very explosive when you lift but lack the ability to strain through max efforts, then you probably need more bar weight than band tension. If you can strain and grind out heavy reps, then the opposite prescription is probably true. Does that make sense?

Speed Strength work can be done in the Accumulation phase, especially if you are in it for a while and you don’t have a meet coming up. Strength Speed work should be done later in the Intensification block, followed by a deload and at least one or two more weeks of Speed Strength. There is a delayed transformation effect or a supercompensated that occurs after jacking up the volume and intensity on dynamic days. Everyones response is different so you need to mess around and figure out exactly how to peak. This is how my last training cycle ended up and I am feeling pretty strong right now:

6 Weeks out: Speed Strength
5 Weeks out: Speed Strength
4 weeks out: 50% of max on a barbell + Green Bands for 10x2
3 weeks out: 60% of max on a SSB + Green bands (about 25% for me) for 10x2
2 weeks out: 75% on speed work for a bunch of singles
Meet Week: 50% and 30% speed work

Meet is on saturday so this should be interesting to see if it works out.

72

Thanks for great responses, guys. A couple more questions:

When do you do speed pulls? I noticed Dave Tate, in his most recent article, has them on some DE days and not others. Is there some way you’re supposed to cycle them that I’m not understanding?

Also, I have been doing jumps for a while and would like to continue to do so with this style of trianing. On which day would you suggest doing it? Or would you jump on an off day as an extra workout? Do you just do it whenever you can?

73

What does your diet look STB?

74

[quote]Chase44 wrote:
What does your diet look STB?[/quote]

Obviously hoho’s, ding dongs, and shit tons of meat.

Lmao, just kidding I’m interested in this question as well.

75

I need some clarification here on speed work with bands and chains.

Say I squat 400lbs. If I were to do speed strength work with bands or chains, how exactly would I go about loading it up?

Would it be 200lbs + 100lbs of bands or chains? (50% 1RM + 25% of 1RM)

or

200lbs + 25lbs of chains? (50% 1RM + 25% weight on the bar)

or

100lbs + 100lbs of chains or bands? (25% 1RM + 25% 1RM = 50% of 1RM total at the top)

I don’t exactly understand proper loading with accommodating resistance.

76

[quote]GruntOrama wrote:
I need some clarification here on speed work with bands and chains.

Say I squat 400lbs. If I were to do speed strength work with bands or chains, how exactly would I go about loading it up?

Would it be 200lbs + 100lbs of bands or chains? (50% 1RM + 25% of 1RM)

or

200lbs + 25lbs of chains? (50% 1RM + 25% weight on the bar)

or

100lbs + 100lbs of chains or bands? (25% 1RM + 25% 1RM = 50% of 1RM total at the top)

I don’t exactly understand proper loading with accommodating resistance.[/quote]
The first one.

77

[quote]GruntOrama wrote:
I need some clarification here on speed work with bands and chains.

Say I squat 400lbs. If I were to do speed strength work with bands or chains, how exactly would I go about loading it up?

Would it be 200lbs + 100lbs of bands or chains? (50% 1RM + 25% of 1RM)

or

200lbs + 25lbs of chains? (50% 1RM + 25% weight on the bar)

or

100lbs + 100lbs of chains or bands? (25% 1RM + 25% 1RM = 50% of 1RM total at the top)

I don’t exactly understand proper loading with accommodating resistance.[/quote]

If using chains use 50%/55%/60% (assuming intermediate 3 week wave) straight weight + 25% chains at the top.

If using bands use 37%/41%/43% straight weight (again assuming intermediate 3 week wave) + 25% band tension at the top.

78

[quote]Razamataz wrote:
Thanks for great responses, guys. A couple more questions:

When do you do speed pulls? I noticed Dave Tate, in his most recent article, has them on some DE days and not others. Is there some way you’re supposed to cycle them that I’m not understanding?

Also, I have been doing jumps for a while and would like to continue to do so with this style of trianing. On which day would you suggest doing it? Or would you jump on an off day as an extra workout? Do you just do it whenever you can?[/quote]

I generally put them in after speed box squatting (DE Lower) 8 singles with about 50% straight weight and 25% band tension (short bands). I find singles are much better for speed work in this.

Regarding jumps = DE lower would be a good day or even after your ME lower movement. I’ve seen jumping done on the day after ME lower as well.

79

[quote]Razamataz wrote:
Thanks for great responses, guys. A couple more questions:

When do you do speed pulls? I noticed Dave Tate, in his most recent article, has them on some DE days and not others. Is there some way you’re supposed to cycle them that I’m not understanding?

Also, I have been doing jumps for a while and would like to continue to do so with this style of trianing. On which day would you suggest doing it? Or would you jump on an off day as an extra workout? Do you just do it whenever you can?[/quote]

At least on Dynmaic Days, after squats, for the speed pulls. If you feel really weak off the floor or slow when you pull heavy, add in a few speed sets before your Max Effort Lower work if you want to. Something like 40-50% for 6-8 singles would be plenty of extra speed work before a ME workout. Also, this has been working well for me, I will do some sumo (I pull conventional in meets) speed pulls with 30% on the bar for 6-10 sets on days after ME or DE lower work. The first few sets usually feel like shit but the last 4-6 are pretty fast.

As for cycling Speed Pulls on dynamic lower days, there is very limited info on this on the internet. In a actual conversation I had with Louie, he said they stick with 50% year round and just work the weakest foot position. For example, if you pull more sumo in meets, you should do a ton of your speed pulls conventional. He also said anyone that pulls under 800 uses quaded minis, anyone over 800 uses quaded monster minis. Personally, I like more variaiton than this. A typical cycle I would use would look like this:

Week 1: 50% against quaded minis, add a set of chain every 2 sets
Week 2: Reverse Band Pulls w/green bands and a fat bar- Work up to a weight thats heavy but still moves fast (usually around 75-80% of my best competition pull) and do 10 singles, half sumo, half conventional
Week 3: Relaxed overcome by dynamic pulls (I need a cooler name for these) w/50% for 10 singles, then do 2-3 singles of just regular speed pulls
Week 4: Speed pulls w/50% and 200lbs of chain for 10 singles or just drag a heavy sled fo a bunch of trips.

For the jumps, I started doing them on just ME/DE Lower days for the first few weeks. I was also doing plyo push ups and explosvie pull ups or rows on Upper Body days. I was doing them right after my warm-up but before my main work started for the day. This has worked pretty well. I have been doing tons of jumps on off days the last 2 weeks (Transformation) to get ready for my competition. So far so good. I will be able to comment on this further after my meet because I have no idea if all the extra shit I’ve been doing is actually going to help or not. I’ll find out after my last deadlift. haha.

Anyway, a good reccommendation for jumping, do it when you are fresh, take lots of rest, keep the volume low, vary the jumps, and keep detailed jump height and weighted jump records… and beat them as often as you can.

80

[quote]PlainPat wrote:

[quote]Chase44 wrote:
What does your diet look STB?[/quote]

Obviously hoho’s, ding dongs, and shit tons of meat.

Lmao, just kidding I’m interested in this question as well.[/quote]

As of right now, a typcial day looks like this:

-65g protein shake, 30g of good fat, all the stupid supplements and vitamins, anywhere from 500mg-1g caffeine

Train

-Same shake, same fat, 60g of shitty carbs

Then I just fit in 4 more meals whenever I can throughout the day. Meals will mostly be meat and veggies and I shoot for a minimum of 350g of protein a day.

I have 2-3 cheat meals a week… and boy oh boy are they cheat meals.

This past week I have been taking in about 800g of carbs a day because I don’t give a shit about weight classes.

This has worked well for the last few months. My workouts feel fucking awesome when I don’t eat any carbs beforehand. The cheat meals fill in the caloric gaps left by eating so low carb. I know this seems like a diet a skinny person would use but my training weight has been right around 285-290 this entire mesocycle.

Edit: I fucking hate hohos. Haha. I’ve actually never really liked sweets and shitty food. I don’t even like sugar in my coffee. Just can’t stand the taste of it. I think its cause I grew up on a farm so all I ever ate as a kid was meat and cheese. haha.