60% straight weight + 25% band/chain give or take for a basic speed-strength cycle.
For speed cycles band/chain weight would be 50-60% of the weight and straight weight would be much lower.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Are the recommended %s for DE bench lower than for legs? Everytime I use bands for a 50-60% DE wave on bench it just seems to heavy to go as fast my squats and pulls at the same %s.[/quote]
This is were guidlines and recommendations get fuzzy. It’s whatever you can move fast. Unlike squats and deads, you are performing three reps for DE bench. This means more volume will be accumulated during your 10-12 sets. This must be factored in. Personally, I never go over 50% on bar weight and just rotate bands, chains, and bars every 2-3 weeks.
What about chain/band weight ? Let’s say you go 40/45/50% on bar weight and how much on chains/bands ?
As I mentioned above it depends on what your focus is for that work. A true speed cycle would be low straight weight, high band/chain weight. A speed-strength cycle would be around 2:1 of straight weight to band/chain weight.
Makes sense now. Thanks.
Hey STB, if you get time, could you post some articles refering to the break down of all the cycles that you mentioned in the begining of the thread. I didnt know about these until you brought them up and its really starting to intrigue me.
I went 500-360-500 Saturday and I think I have more in me. Id like to learn as much as possible by April so I might be able to do a little better. Due to the all the bullshit on the net, some of your preffered articles might help me out a bit. Thanks
Chicksan - this is from Louie himself and is pretty much exactly what STB described in his first post, except STB broke it down better and outlined certain parameters:
http://beta.westside-barbell.com/articles/programming-organization/
I also recently got the Book of Methods and am still in the beginning, but Louie talks about planning training year-around the way STB mentioned…it is kind of hard to follow because the man rambles off in different directions, but there is a sea of information in that book.
P.S. Good job on the meet man - good luck with your next one! I’m sure you’ll do even better
There is a big ass hill right across my campus, since I dont have a sled and dont have the $ for one can hill sprints be used to replace sled dragging for extra workouts?
I just thought of something. 2 minis doubled up under dbs will make about 90lb of band tension at the top so I guess that would mean something like 40-45 at the bottom. So if I were using 135lb for speed with chains, with that band setup, I would actually want to use 95-100lb bar weight to get 135 at the bottom… right?
[quote]Chicksan wrote:
Hey STB, if you get time, could you post some articles refering to the break down of all the cycles that you mentioned in the begining of the thread. I didnt know about these until you brought them up and its really starting to intrigue me.
I went 500-360-500 Saturday and I think I have more in me. Id like to learn as much as possible by April so I might be able to do a little better. Due to the all the bullshit on the net, some of your preffered articles might help me out a bit. Thanks[/quote]
Articles are tough to come by becuase no one but Louie writes about this shit in America. I would suggest picking up ‘Block Periodization’ and ‘Special Strength Training Manual for Coaches’ for better understanding. Also, I don’t know if this would help or not, but this is fucking awesome:
http://strength-training.wikidot.com/strength-training-article:bulgarian-abadzhiev-interview
It cool to see how much of a badass the guy was who built the base for the training methods we are talking about.
[quote]Vladamir wrote:
There is a big ass hill right across my campus, since I dont have a sled and dont have the $ for one can hill sprints be used to replace sled dragging for extra workouts?[/quote]
That would be great for conditioning. As far as an ideal means for recovery, not so much. Just plan it out smart. Get your highest volume of hill sprints in during the Accumulation Block, cut it back some in the Intensification Block, and do more flat land sprints in the Transformation block
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I just thought of something. 2 minis doubled up under dbs will make about 90lb of band tension at the top so I guess that would mean something like 40-45 at the bottom. So if I were using 135lb for speed with chains, with that band setup, I would actually want to use 95-100lb bar weight to get 135 at the bottom… right?[/quote]
Overthinking the shit out of it. Just stick with whatever percentage you are using that day in bar weight. The bands add around 90lbs. The actual weight is different for everyone and due to reaction forces, will vary from rep to rep. The only constant is the bar weight.
Me for example, my arms are a mile long. I seriously have an 82inch wing span. There is going to be more tension at the top for me than most other lifters.
Dr. Issurin and Verkoshansky both have a lot of material you can find online with good translations. Issurin is a bit better translated imo and goes a good bit more into bloc training. Verkoshansky really brings the hard science but looks at specific variables I feel a good bit more so than he does a training system.
Holy shit, its like im back in college again, minus the partying! Thanks for the recomendations fellas. I think Ill just go with an example that has been layed out in this thread earlier and see what that does, while Im studying up on this stuff…4 Weeks Accumulation + 3 Weeks Intensification and repeat. Ill keep y’all updated on the status. Thanks again guys!!
[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
[quote]Jussi.U wrote:
Well… New guy here
I want to ask an i do big lifts (bench,deadlift) variations with one band? or should i get 2 of every band?[/quote]
here’s what I do for benching
[/quote]
I do that as well, except I don’t use 2.5’s.
Storm, what do you think of this for max effort days:
- Work up to top set as usual.
- Drop weight to 60-70% of the top set.
- Rep out, leaving a few reps in the tank.
I’ve done this in the past, for a bit of a hypertrophy/work capacity thing, but I’m not sure if it’s really the best thing for me.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
[quote]Jussi.U wrote:
Well… New guy here
I want to ask an i do big lifts (bench,deadlift) variations with one band? or should i get 2 of every band?[/quote]
here’s what I do for benching
[/quote]
I do that as well, except I don’t use 2.5’s.
Storm, what do you think of this for max effort days:
- Work up to top set as usual.
- Drop weight to 60-70% of the top set.
- Rep out, leaving a few reps in the tank.
I’ve done this in the past, for a bit of a hypertrophy/work capacity thing, but I’m not sure if it’s really the best thing for me.[/quote]
60-70 might be too light for a “Max Effort” workout.
Mark Bell and Jesse Burdick (if you check their websites) sometimes recommends shaving about 80% from the top set and just repping out. The resoning, besides extra volume, is to strain but not at weights that would likely kill you (because when repping out your form inevitably goes to shit). Of course, not to leave out hypertrophy and work capacity benefits.
You could also seem some resemblance of this from Tate’s 6 week bench press cure.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
[quote]Jussi.U wrote:
Well… New guy here
I want to ask an i do big lifts (bench,deadlift) variations with one band? or should i get 2 of every band?[/quote]
here’s what I do for benching
[/quote]
I do that as well, except I don’t use 2.5’s.
Storm, what do you think of this for max effort days:
- Work up to top set as usual.
- Drop weight to 60-70% of the top set.
- Rep out, leaving a few reps in the tank.
I’ve done this in the past, for a bit of a hypertrophy/work capacity thing, but I’m not sure if it’s really the best thing for me.[/quote]
I do this quite often though I generally stay at 80% of top set and try and hit 10.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
[quote]Jussi.U wrote:
Well… New guy here
I want to ask an i do big lifts (bench,deadlift) variations with one band? or should i get 2 of every band?[/quote]
here’s what I do for benching
[/quote]
I do that as well, except I don’t use 2.5’s.
Storm, what do you think of this for max effort days:
- Work up to top set as usual.
- Drop weight to 60-70% of the top set.
- Rep out, leaving a few reps in the tank.
I’ve done this in the past, for a bit of a hypertrophy/work capacity thing, but I’m not sure if it’s really the best thing for me.[/quote]
As long as you have a prgression and you can logically explain what you are doing with your training, then it will work. A prgression for a plan like that could look something like this:
Accumulation Block: Work up to your max, then go to some very general exercises (not reps with your ME exercises
Intensification Block:
Early in the Block: Work up to your max, then 60% for a rep max.
Later in the block: Work up to your max, 70% for a rep max.
Transformation Block
Early: Work up to your max, then find a 3-6rm
Later: recovery only
This is not a perfect plan or anything. I actually just pulled this out of my ass. Mess around and see what works for you.
Hey guys,
I advise you to add David Hoff (dave hoff, u know him) in facebook before he reaches 5k friends. He answers to everyone and helps out with everything. If by chance STB can’t help you out, you can ask him directly. He’s super friendly, had a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long chat with him, maybe an hour and he helped me out tremendously.
There were some questions (by me too) about bar weight and chain/band weight for DE benching. Dave said to go 25%, 30%, 35% (3 week wave) bar weight + 2 chains. He said he rarely goes above 315 in a DE bench day.
Dave Hoff is also stronger and an elite lifter. Louie, and other guys who have trained at westside all advocate that weaker/less proficient lifters stick with a bit higher %, mainly because you’re not capable of recruiting muscle like a more proficient lifter is.
So yes, while Dave Hoff may not go above 315 with weight, he doesn’t need to to be able to recruit the maximum amount of muscle whereas you are likely to need a higher %. Remember, just because Ronnie Coleman did something in bodybuilding doesn’t mean it’s going to work for the average person. In powerlifting, there are loading parameters for the elite, and then there are loading parameters for the mere mortal. Always keep that in mind.