STB with that template should I accumulate for 6 weeks and intensify for 3 to be able to hit all 3 de and me workouts inside the cycle or what?
Sorry meant to write intensify for 6 weeks.
I was thinking of using explosive mini-band push ups and plyo push ups instead of bb bench for most of my DE bench work. As I got closer to meet or bench press maxing time I was going to use the barbell instead using mostly free weight and chains and occasionally bands.
I was thinking of this because of how much I remember DE bench tearing up my shoulders in the past.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I was thinking of using explosive mini-band push ups and plyo push ups instead of bb bench for most of my DE bench work. As I got closer to meet or bench press maxing time I was going to use the barbell instead using mostly free weight and chains and occasionally bands.
I was thinking of this because of how much I remember DE bench tearing up my shoulders in the past. [/quote]
Personally I look at DE bench work as an opportunity to really practice technique. Not sure about you, but the bands are what beats me up and I don’t use them nearly as often as I do chains.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I was thinking of using explosive mini-band push ups and plyo push ups instead of bb bench for most of my DE bench work. As I got closer to meet or bench press maxing time I was going to use the barbell instead using mostly free weight and chains and occasionally bands.
I was thinking of this because of how much I remember DE bench tearing up my shoulders in the past. [/quote]
Earlier in this thread, StormtheBeach said that you can use reverse band bench press for DE work, which is a lot easier on your shoulders.
[quote]Chase44 wrote:
STB, I don’t compete in powerlifting meets right now… how ever my two competition lifts for high school meets are the bench and power clean. I’d like to use a template with some west side principles to prioritize my bench & clean while I’m on winter break. What are your thoughts on using the power clean or high pulls from the floor as my “DE pull” day before I go for a dead lift PR later in the week, or should I keep them before my heavy pulls as sort of a warm up/continuous ramp? do I even need a max effort pull day?..
Here’s my basic set up.
ME pull day
A. clean to a 1-2 rm
B. dead lift (conventional, rack pulls, deficit, trap bar)
- work to a 5,3 or 1 RM
I have 4 days a week to train, my 5th day is more for bonus or structural work. Anyway in particular to set up a template geared towards the clean & bench?
Thanks!
- Chase
[/quote]
Man, you can do so much cool shit with your training its not even funny. I would suggest still cycling 4 heavy workouts. ME and DE benching of course, just use any of the set-ups that have been discussed already. For improving the clean, you can do all kinds of cool shit. Here is what I would suggest:
ME Clean Day- Order your exercises like this:
-Warm-up- whatever the hell you do…
-Some jumps and pure explosive work for low volumes (just shoot for 10-15 jumps of any kind you wish)
-Choose a clean variaiton based on your weaknesses like cleaning from different heights (like one would rack/box pull for deadlifts), hang-pause-clean from different heights, snatach grip cleans, straight leg cleans (fucking brutal), even front squats every once in a while.
-Some kind of explosive pull- High Pull, Power Shrug, Snatch Grip Power Shrug, whatever. Keep volume low, keep speed very fast. Shoot for 10+ sets of 2-5 reps… just go fast.
-Some sort of squat for assistance work, this should never be for a max, but it should always be heavy. Anywhere from a 3-6rm. Vary the exercise often, keep track of records, and break them when you re-cycle the exercise
-Whatever the hell you want after this. Always do ab work
DE Clean Day:
-Warm-up
-Jumps
-Do a normal squat speed strength cycle but for your cleans. Prelipins Table is the basis for the sets/reps at given percentages. It was developed from oly lifters and oly track athletes so it is perfect for cleans. So, weeks 1-3 go, 50% for 12x2, 55% for 12x2, 60% for 10x2.
-Normal Speed deadlifts or Heavy Pulling: RDLs, SLDLs, whatever for a 3-6rm
-Whatever else you want. Do abs.
On whatever extra workouts you do, I would suggest tons of jumps and throws along with recovery work. You can really do whatever the hell you want to. This is definitely how I would set it up if thats what I was training for. I left it kinda general, if you need more explaination, just let me know.
Hope this helps.
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
STB with that template should I accumulate for 6 weeks and intensify for 3 to be able to hit all 3 de and me workouts inside the cycle or what?
Sorry meant to write intensify for 6 weeks. [/quote]
You could. The Intensification phase is meant to be rough. If you are going to do it for 6 weeks straight, I would suggest planning ahead for at least one or 2 ME days to be deloaded. Either do speed work on those days or drag a sled. Same with 2 ME Upper Days as well. Especially if you are using bands and chains/going balls to the walls on your ME work (which you should be) you are going to need some planned rest thrown in there.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I was thinking of using explosive mini-band push ups and plyo push ups instead of bb bench for most of my DE bench work. As I got closer to meet or bench press maxing time I was going to use the barbell instead using mostly free weight and chains and occasionally bands.
I was thinking of this because of how much I remember DE bench tearing up my shoulders in the past. [/quote]
Go for it and see what happens.
That is a whole hell of a lot of straight bar work you are going to miss out on. Before you drop it completely, I would suggest trying a cycle of Rev. Band benches or board presses or pin presses, just something that is low shoulder stress but keeps a straight bar in your hands. Also, during this time, get a LAX ball into your shoulders and smash that shit to peices. Ever since I started doing mobility work consistantly, my shoulder feel a whole lot less shitty when benching with bands all the time. Just a suggestion.
If you still end up dropping the straight bar for a block or two, please post an update on this thread and let me know how it works out for you.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
STB with that template should I accumulate for 6 weeks and intensify for 3 to be able to hit all 3 de and me workouts inside the cycle or what?
Sorry meant to write intensify for 6 weeks. [/quote]
You could. The Intensification phase is meant to be rough. If you are going to do it for 6 weeks straight, I would suggest planning ahead for at least one or 2 ME days to be deloaded. Either do speed work on those days or drag a sled. Same with 2 ME Upper Days as well. Especially if you are using bands and chains/going balls to the walls on your ME work (which you should be) you are going to need some planned rest thrown in there.[/quote]
Ok we’ll see how this goes yet because its looking like I might be done wrestling (got my fourth concussion and worry about getting another one over something so stupid when I just want to lift anyway) so theres a good chance I just run my accumulation as previously planned but if not then I’ll do it this way.
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I was thinking of using explosive mini-band push ups and plyo push ups instead of bb bench for most of my DE bench work. As I got closer to meet or bench press maxing time I was going to use the barbell instead using mostly free weight and chains and occasionally bands.
I was thinking of this because of how much I remember DE bench tearing up my shoulders in the past. [/quote]
Personally I look at DE bench work as an opportunity to really practice technique. Not sure about you, but the bands are what beats me up and I don’t use them nearly as often as I do chains.[/quote]
Yea, chains definitely are less stress on the shoulder. The reason the bands wreck shit so bad is that they increase the speed of gravity on the bar. This is awesome for developing a stretch reflex (which is crucial for powerlifting because we have to pause benches on the chest) and also developing strength through the entire range of motion (not just the mechanical disadvantage portion of the lift (Jesus Christ, that could be a thread of its own)). The problem is, all of the damage done while training is done during the eccentric (pliometric for all the other nerds out there) portion of the lift. The bands augment that damage. Something will give somewhere when stress it increased like this. Usually, its an external rotator or an internal rotator because these are absorbing the once the bar hits the chest.
Mobility (lots of sliding surface smashing) work helps. Free-falling the bar into your sternum would help too but its hard to stay tight with compound rib fractures pushing the bar out of your groove.
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
STB with that template should I accumulate for 6 weeks and intensify for 3 to be able to hit all 3 de and me workouts inside the cycle or what?
Sorry meant to write intensify for 6 weeks. [/quote]
You could. The Intensification phase is meant to be rough. If you are going to do it for 6 weeks straight, I would suggest planning ahead for at least one or 2 ME days to be deloaded. Either do speed work on those days or drag a sled. Same with 2 ME Upper Days as well. Especially if you are using bands and chains/going balls to the walls on your ME work (which you should be) you are going to need some planned rest thrown in there.[/quote]
Ok we’ll see how this goes yet because its looking like I might be done wrestling (got my fourth concussion and worry about getting another one over something so stupid when I just want to lift anyway) so theres a good chance I just run my accumulation as previously planned but if not then I’ll do it this way.[/quote]
You kids and your concussions these days. I don’t even remember 90% of the football games I played in because my tackling technique was, “if I don’t spear him to death, then it doesn’t count.” One of the few games I do remember, I swear too God, I can recall it looking like the entrance to Toon Town from Who Framed Roger Rabbit… this might be why sometimes it takes a conscious effort to not drool on myself when I’m bored or the seizure like tremors I experience everytime I look to my left. Oh well.
Sorry to hear buddy. Just work your ass off and wreck shit next year.
Here is some game footage of the first round of the 2002 Maryland 3A Football State Championships:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
STB with that template should I accumulate for 6 weeks and intensify for 3 to be able to hit all 3 de and me workouts inside the cycle or what?
Sorry meant to write intensify for 6 weeks. [/quote]
You could. The Intensification phase is meant to be rough. If you are going to do it for 6 weeks straight, I would suggest planning ahead for at least one or 2 ME days to be deloaded. Either do speed work on those days or drag a sled. Same with 2 ME Upper Days as well. Especially if you are using bands and chains/going balls to the walls on your ME work (which you should be) you are going to need some planned rest thrown in there.[/quote]
Ok we’ll see how this goes yet because its looking like I might be done wrestling (got my fourth concussion and worry about getting another one over something so stupid when I just want to lift anyway) so theres a good chance I just run my accumulation as previously planned but if not then I’ll do it this way.[/quote]
You kids and your concussions these days. I don’t even remember 90% of the football games I played in because my tackling technique was, “if I don’t spear him to death, then it doesn’t count.” One of the few games I do remember, I swear too God, I can recall it looking like the entrance to Toon Town from Who Framed Roger Rabbit… this might be why sometimes it takes a conscious effort to not drool on myself when I’m bored or the seizure like tremors I experience everytime I look to my left. Oh well.
Sorry to hear buddy. Just work your ass off and wreck shit next year.
Here is some game footage of the first round of the 2002 Maryland 3A Football State Championships:
LOL. I get what you mean but at the same time its like, after this being my fourth documented concussion where do I go from here? I mean I want to be able to move my head 360 degrees when I’m 18 so… Lol hopefully just gonna lift and enter a meet this summer sometime. My coach will be upset to say the least but hey, gotta do what you want to do/need to do in this case sometimes.
Alright I don’t think this has been asked yet, but for assistance/supplementary exercises should you work up to a max set in them or do sets across? and should you try and get PR’s as much as possible with them?
[quote]XArena wrote:
Alright I don’t think this has been asked yet, but for assistance/supplementary exercises should you work up to a max set in them or do sets across? and should you try and get PR’s as much as possible with them?[/quote]
Depends. I know this is goes little against the grains for the “I’m different and have unique idea’s for training guys” but, I train to failure a lot. Especially for upper body RE work. My arms are small and it makes my bench press suck. I want big strong arms to make my bench better. Training to failure adds a shit load of size which has been helping my bench press tremendously.
Since I have no idea what your weaknesses are or anything about you at all, I would suggest the following:
For assistance work, you have many options of what you can do. Early on in training, volume should be at its highest and specificity should be at its lowest. For example, using high rep shrugs AND RDLs to improve your deadlift lockout early in training. I assume by ‘sets across’ you mean something like 5x10 with the same weight? Early in training, accumulation block, this is fine. The goals of this block are to correct imbalances, recover from the previous meet, get bigger, and improve GPP. So, in the Accumulation Block, do whatever the hell you want. Do 5x10 with the same weight, work up to a 10rm on your last set, stand on your head for a max amount if time, it doesnt matter. You are building a base for later training.
The Intensification Block is just geared towards increasing strength. Here is where you do your main lift for the day, then do a couple warm-up sets, and hit a 3-6rm on your assistance work.
Always keep track of records. Always try to break those records.
Did this help at all?
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]XArena wrote:
Alright I don’t think this has been asked yet, but for assistance/supplementary exercises should you work up to a max set in them or do sets across? and should you try and get PR’s as much as possible with them?[/quote]
Depends. I know this is goes little against the grains for the “I’m different and have unique idea’s for training guys” but, I train to failure a lot. Especially for upper body RE work. My arms are small and it makes my bench press suck. I want big strong arms to make my bench better. Training to failure adds a shit load of size which has been helping my bench press tremendously.
Since I have no idea what your weaknesses are or anything about you at all, I would suggest the following:
For assistance work, you have many options of what you can do. Early on in training, volume should be at its highest and specificity should be at its lowest. For example, using high rep shrugs AND RDLs to improve your deadlift lockout early in training. I assume by ‘sets across’ you mean something like 5x10 with the same weight? Early in training, accumulation block, this is fine. The goals of this block are to correct imbalances, recover from the previous meet, get bigger, and improve GPP. So, in the Accumulation Block, do whatever the hell you want. Do 5x10 with the same weight, work up to a 10rm on your last set, stand on your head for a max amount if time, it doesnt matter. You are building a base for later training.
The Intensification Block is just geared towards increasing strength. Here is where you do your main lift for the day, then do a couple warm-up sets, and hit a 3-6rm on your assistance work.
Always keep track of records. Always try to break those records.
Did this help at all?[/quote]
Alright thank you! If it matters, I’ve never done a meet. I’m doing 5x10 with my assistance stuff right now, but I haven’t broken my training up into blocks or anything, I’m just doing dynamic effort and max effort(no chains/bands or anything) stuff and rotating max effort exercises every three weeks and rotating assistance whenever I stop making progress on them. When should I start working up to a 3-6RM on my assistance stuff?
@ PlainPat,
Do some neck work man… Beef up that spindle and you won’t need to worry about concussions anymore. Unless you are just prone to get them regardless, but I have never found one person who does not benefit from strengthening the neck.
[quote]XArena wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]XArena wrote:
Alright I don’t think this has been asked yet, but for assistance/supplementary exercises should you work up to a max set in them or do sets across? and should you try and get PR’s as much as possible with them?[/quote]
Depends. I know this is goes little against the grains for the “I’m different and have unique idea’s for training guys” but, I train to failure a lot. Especially for upper body RE work. My arms are small and it makes my bench press suck. I want big strong arms to make my bench better. Training to failure adds a shit load of size which has been helping my bench press tremendously.
Since I have no idea what your weaknesses are or anything about you at all, I would suggest the following:
For assistance work, you have many options of what you can do. Early on in training, volume should be at its highest and specificity should be at its lowest. For example, using high rep shrugs AND RDLs to improve your deadlift lockout early in training. I assume by ‘sets across’ you mean something like 5x10 with the same weight? Early in training, accumulation block, this is fine. The goals of this block are to correct imbalances, recover from the previous meet, get bigger, and improve GPP. So, in the Accumulation Block, do whatever the hell you want. Do 5x10 with the same weight, work up to a 10rm on your last set, stand on your head for a max amount if time, it doesnt matter. You are building a base for later training.
The Intensification Block is just geared towards increasing strength. Here is where you do your main lift for the day, then do a couple warm-up sets, and hit a 3-6rm on your assistance work.
Always keep track of records. Always try to break those records.
Did this help at all?[/quote]
Alright thank you! If it matters, I’ve never done a meet. I’m doing 5x10 with my assistance stuff right now, but I haven’t broken my training up into blocks or anything, I’m just doing dynamic effort and max effort(no chains/bands or anything) stuff and rotating max effort exercises every three weeks and rotating assistance whenever I stop making progress on them. When should I start working up to a 3-6RM on my assistance stuff? [/quote]
My assistance work is split up into two groups: heavy shit and light shit…lame i know, but its what works for me.
Heavy shit is close grip bench, jm press, floor press, pin press, good mornings, rack pulls, ultra wide sumo pulls. The movements that allow me to load up the plates. These are the movements I take to 3-6 reps and Im looking to break a record on. They are usually second to my main lift.
Light shit is your laterals, pushdowns, band pull aparts, db bench, extensions. These are the movements I can rep away on. I dont care if I break a record or not, Im basically chasing the pump (is that word allowed in a powerlifting forum? dont ban me please)
Usually after my main lift, im already beat up, so I want something that I can finish myself off with, and that sure as shit isnt going to be band push downs. Hope this helps a bit
Light shit i
Alright, so should I go for a PR in my first lift after my main lift? and all other exercises be high volume?
[quote]XArena wrote:
Alright, so should I go for a PR in my first lift after my main lift? and all other exercises be high volume? [/quote]
Yes. So, say you are doing your ME Upper day during the Accumulation Block:
Your first exercise could be a Close Grip Bench press to a 5 rep max. Then say you want to do one big set of DB Presses. If you used the 40lb Dumbbells and got 40 reps in one set last time, either try to beat 40 reps this time or use a higher weight, lower weight, or different bench angle and establish a new max with whatever variaiton you chose.
Then the rest of your workout is pretty much for sick pumps, brah.
Make sense now?
[quote]Chicksan wrote:
[quote]XArena wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]XArena wrote:
Alright I don’t think this has been asked yet, but for assistance/supplementary exercises should you work up to a max set in them or do sets across? and should you try and get PR’s as much as possible with them?[/quote]
Depends. I know this is goes little against the grains for the “I’m different and have unique idea’s for training guys” but, I train to failure a lot. Especially for upper body RE work. My arms are small and it makes my bench press suck. I want big strong arms to make my bench better. Training to failure adds a shit load of size which has been helping my bench press tremendously.
Since I have no idea what your weaknesses are or anything about you at all, I would suggest the following:
For assistance work, you have many options of what you can do. Early on in training, volume should be at its highest and specificity should be at its lowest. For example, using high rep shrugs AND RDLs to improve your deadlift lockout early in training. I assume by ‘sets across’ you mean something like 5x10 with the same weight? Early in training, accumulation block, this is fine. The goals of this block are to correct imbalances, recover from the previous meet, get bigger, and improve GPP. So, in the Accumulation Block, do whatever the hell you want. Do 5x10 with the same weight, work up to a 10rm on your last set, stand on your head for a max amount if time, it doesnt matter. You are building a base for later training.
The Intensification Block is just geared towards increasing strength. Here is where you do your main lift for the day, then do a couple warm-up sets, and hit a 3-6rm on your assistance work.
Always keep track of records. Always try to break those records.
Did this help at all?[/quote]
Alright thank you! If it matters, I’ve never done a meet. I’m doing 5x10 with my assistance stuff right now, but I haven’t broken my training up into blocks or anything, I’m just doing dynamic effort and max effort(no chains/bands or anything) stuff and rotating max effort exercises every three weeks and rotating assistance whenever I stop making progress on them. When should I start working up to a 3-6RM on my assistance stuff? [/quote]
My assistance work is split up into two groups: heavy shit and light shit…lame i know, but its what works for me.
Heavy shit is close grip bench, jm press, floor press, pin press, good mornings, rack pulls, ultra wide sumo pulls. The movements that allow me to load up the plates. These are the movements I take to 3-6 reps and Im looking to break a record on. They are usually second to my main lift.
Light shit is your laterals, pushdowns, band pull aparts, db bench, extensions. These are the movements I can rep away on. I dont care if I break a record or not, Im basically chasing the pump (is that word allowed in a powerlifting forum? dont ban me please)
Usually after my main lift, im already beat up, so I want something that I can finish myself off with, and that sure as shit isnt going to be band push downs. Hope this helps a bit
Light shit i[/quote]
I agree with this 100%.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]XArena wrote:
Alright, so should I go for a PR in my first lift after my main lift? and all other exercises be high volume? [/quote]
Yes. So, say you are doing your ME Upper day during the Accumulation Block:
Your first exercise could be a Close Grip Bench press to a 5 rep max. Then say you want to do one big set of DB Presses. If you used the 40lb Dumbbells and got 40 reps in one set last time, either try to beat 40 reps this time or use a higher weight, lower weight, or different bench angle and establish a new max with whatever variaiton you chose.
Then the rest of your workout is pretty much for sick pumps, brah.
Make sense now?[/quote]
It kind of makes sense, just to clarify, I don’t have to do a high rep set of DB presses right? This is what I’m doing right now:
1.Main lift, 1-5 RM
2.DB Bench, 5x10
3.External Rotation: 3x8
Should I add in an exercise in between the main and the DB bench, like skull crushers or something, and go for a 3-6 rm there?