[quote]brushga wrote:
hedo wrote:
They will not be allowed to acquire nukes.
It is too dangerous for them to have a nuke because they will use it or give it to a proxy. It’s all well and good to debate the issue and hope for the best but in the end common sense needs to take over. Either the US or Israel will settle the matter. They are the two countries that have both the ability and the will to fix the problem.
I really hope diplomcy works but I am not optomistic on that happening.
I certainly hope Iran doesn’t get the nuke. But do you think it is a certainty that they don’t? How would Israel be able to seriously derail their program? Would the U.S. invade? I don’t know the answer to those questions, but watching the tube and reading the papers leads me to believe the answer is no to both questions. That being the case I think we have to think about what we do IF Iran gets a nuke. Pakistan and N. Korea pulled it off, and in this case Iran has some major support from China and Russia, and India somewhat.
[/quote]
I think it is a certainty they will either get a nuke or fight a war to get one.
If Iran’s leadership did not make the very public statements they have regarding Israel, the Israeli’s might not object to them having nuclear weapons. They have made very clear public statements about what they feel the future of Israel should look like.
Could Israel derail the program? Who knows? Using conventional weapons they could set it back. Using tactical nukes they could end it. This opens up a can of worms. Keep in mind they are reported to have 300 nuclear weapons in their inventory and have never made a threat to use them to wipe out their neighbors. Pre9/11 I don’t think we would have invaded. Post 9/11 I wouldn’t rule it out. A prolonged Air campaign by the US would end the program in my opinion.
To the poster who pointed out that 99% of the folks in Iran are not terrorists I agree with you. We think the leader of Iran is a nut job too. However, publicly stating that the another country should be destoyed because they are Jewish is insane. We don’t allow madmen to have nukes. China and Russia are not going to risk one soldiers life to support Iran. Your relatives need to push for reform. If our leaders said we should wipe Canada off the face of the earth because they are Canadian he would be impeached by his own party, let alone the other side.
“I agree with you.publicly stating that the another country should be destoyed because they are Jewish. our leaders said we should wipe Canada off the face of the earth because they are Canadian”
all of these are statements that you just made. it is very easy to take what you say and scramble it all up so that it makes you out to be bad.the nutjobs point was this. why did’nt germany give it’s own land to the jewish people? if they felt soo bad about what they did they should have suffered(i don’t mean that the fine jewish people are a burden to be suffered)the loss of thier lands. and i agree. it must be nice to do such horrible things and then let another civilization clean up the mess. if bitch ass germany would have taken the people it misplaced, there might be peace in the middle east. long story short, don’t beileve everything you read, and fuck germany.
p.s. no crazy ass religious people should have nuclear weapons, oh wait do crazy ass christian presidents count?
[quote]hedo wrote:
brushga wrote:
hedo wrote:
They will not be allowed to acquire nukes.
It is too dangerous for them to have a nuke because they will use it or give it to a proxy. It’s all well and good to debate the issue and hope for the best but in the end common sense needs to take over. Either the US or Israel will settle the matter. They are the two countries that have both the ability and the will to fix the problem.
I really hope diplomcy works but I am not optomistic on that happening.
I certainly hope Iran doesn’t get the nuke. But do you think it is a certainty that they don’t? How would Israel be able to seriously derail their program? Would the U.S. invade? I don’t know the answer to those questions, but watching the tube and reading the papers leads me to believe the answer is no to both questions. That being the case I think we have to think about what we do IF Iran gets a nuke. Pakistan and N. Korea pulled it off, and in this case Iran has some major support from China and Russia, and India somewhat.
I think it is a certainty they will either get a nuke or fight a war to get one.
If Iran’s leadership did not make the very public statements they have regarding Israel, the Israeli’s might not object to them having nuclear weapons. They have made very clear public statements about what they feel the future of Israel should look like.
Could Israel derail the program? Who knows? Using conventional weapons they could set it back. Using tactical nukes they could end it. This opens up a can of worms. Keep in mind they are reported to have 300 nuclear weapons in their inventory and have never made a threat to use them to wipe out their neighbors. Pre9/11 I don’t think we would have invaded. Post 9/11 I wouldn’t rule it out. A prolonged Air campaign by the US would end the program in my opinion.
To the poster who pointed out that 99% of the folks in Iran are not terrorists I agree with you. We think the leader of Iran is a nut job too. However, publicly stating that the another country should be destoyed because they are Jewish is insane. We don’t allow madmen to have nukes. China and Russia are not going to risk one soldiers life to support Iran. Your relatives need to push for reform. If our leaders said we should wipe Canada off the face of the earth because they are Canadian he would be impeached by his own party, let alone the other side.
[/quote]
if the choice is israel, or the U.S. attacking, there is no choice. they are one in the same.
[quote]mazilla wrote:
“I agree with you.publicly stating that the another country should be destoyed because they are Jewish. our leaders said we should wipe Canada off the face of the earth because they are Canadian”
all of these are statements that you just made. it is very easy to take what you say and scramble it all up so that it makes you out to be bad.the nutjobs point was this. why did’nt germany give it’s own land to the jewish people? if they felt soo bad about what they did they should have suffered(i don’t mean that the fine jewish people are a burden to be suffered)the loss of thier lands. and i agree. it must be nice to do such horrible things and then let another civilization clean up the mess. if bitch ass germany would have taken the people it misplaced, there might be peace in the middle east. long story short, don’t beileve everything you read, and fuck germany.
p.s. no crazy ass religious people should have nuclear weapons, oh wait do crazy ass christian presidents count?[/quote]
What is the point you are trying to make? You cans scramble words…oh well, great skill but kind of silly. Want me to do the same. Seems kind of childish when you are talking about the fate of millions of people.
It’s 2006, not 1945. Germany didn’t get a say what happened after the war. The reality is Israel exists. If Iran threatens them they will hit them. Israel is an ally of the US that’s a fact. We’ll support them. That shouldn’t suprise the Iranians. We supported other Middle East countries.
If Iran continues down it’s present course it will not be given a free pass. It will be judged by the same standards as any other nation. If it threatens nuclear war it will most likely be attacked by Israel or the US. It’s not something either nation wants to do but it is based on the action the Iranians are taking. Niether the Israeli’s will put cities at risk because the Iranians think they need a nuclear weapon.
p.s. no crazy ass religious people should have nuclear weapons, oh wait do crazy ass christian presidents count?
No they don’t. Crazy ass Christian Presidents can have whatever they like. i think we’ve all figured that out now.[/quote]
A truly crazy president would have ended the debate about Iran already.
Let’s take the silly Bush bashing out of it for a moment. I know it’s tough for your guys but give it a whirl.
Let’s assume niether Israel or the US do a thing about Iran and they develop a few nukes. Let’s msay they use one on Israel or give it to a proxy to set off in Jersey City. What do you think the response would be at that point?
[quote]fixedgear758 wrote:
There were no Iranians on any planes being flown into buildings. Get your shit straight. I have family in Iran, and none of them is a terrorist. [/quote]
Get your shit straight. Show me where I accused the Iranians of anything. You evidently mis-understood the converstaion which you quoted. The conversation was about the GWOT, and islamofacism. I could give a shit where you or your family are from. There are nice people all over the globe, and to think that the U.S. is at war with the peace loving folk of any country is just propagandist bullshit.
But - It was the Iranian islamo-facists who took over our Embasssy in the late 70’s. It was islamo-facists that were responsible for the Beruit bombing attacks in 1983, and the current leader of Iran is 100% islamo-facist. He was one of the terrorists that took innocent people hostage in Iran in the late 70’s.
[quote]You guys have to keep in mind that there are normal real people living in that country that all of you think can just be killed. If that’s the way you feel, I hope someday the same thing happens to your loved ones.
[/quote]
If my loved ones sit idly by and allow islamo-facists to dictate their lives to them, I hope they face the firiest hell that Satan has to offer. To allow such ignorance to rule a country is criminal.
[quote]mazilla wrote:
If bitch ass germany would have taken the people it misplaced, there might be peace in the middle east. long story short, don’t beileve everything you read, and fuck germany.
[/quote]
Go fuck yourself.
Iran clearly voted (over 60%) for that asshole President.
To try to defend his obscure theory is absurd.
Iran wanted Mahmud, now they got him.
Mahmud wants to annoy the US. Well, see what Iran gets in return.
[quote]hedo wrote:
China and Russia are far from superpowers either economic or military.
The Chinese economy is dependent upon foriegn capital and markets as well as technology. Exports could be completely shut down by the US Navy in wartime. Same for imports of energy. No exports, no factory jobs, big problems for China.
Economically they are ahead in growth but the US economy is growing also and will most likely develop new technologies and industries. Russia is in even worse shape in terms of the economy and conventional military forces. The nukes give them partial parity.
That’s the strategic view, not a political one.
[/quote]
Wake up sleepyhead – it’s 2006…
US government warns it’s running out of cash
WASHINGTON (AFP) - Treasury Secretary John Snow has warned that unless Congress raises the national debt limit, the US government will run out of cash to finance its daily work in two months. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051230/ts_afp/uspoliticseconomy
Bush Borrowed More Than All Previous Presidents Combined, Group Says
According to the Treasury Department, from 1776-2000, the first 224 years of U.S. history, 42 U.S. presidents borrowed a combined $1.01 trillion from foreign governments and financial institutions, but in the past four years alone, the Bush administration borrowed $1.05 trillion. http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200511/NAT20051104b.html
Worry as Chinese reserves poised to touch historic US $1 trillion level
BEIJING - China’s foreign-exchange reserves rose to a record last year, almost matching Japan’s as the world’s largest, as a swelling trade surplus and money inflows betting on a currency revaluation boosted holdings.
Economists think China’s reserves could grow another 20 per cent by year’s end.
What’s the Fed Up To With the Money Supply?
On November 10th, 2005, shortly after appointing Bernanke to replace Greenbackspan, the Fed mysteriously announced with little comment and no palatable justification that they will hide M-3 effective March 2006. M-3 has been the main staple of money supply measurement and transparent disclosure since the Fed was founded back in 1913. It is the key monetary aggregate that includes Fed Repo transactions, that mechanism whereby the Fed increases reserves. The date when M-3 will start being hidden also happens to be the exact month that Iran will declare economic war against the U.S. Dollar by trading its oil in Petro-Euros on its new bourse. http://www.safehaven.com/showarticle.cfm?id=4331&pv=1
[quote]dead lead wrote:
brushga wrote:
China is an emerging power for sure, but I have never heard anyone make that case about Russia. From what I have read they are trending in the opposite direction. Are there any specific reasons why you think Russia is going to re-emerge? Maybe you meant India?
i do agree with you on india, russia maybe more an energy super power than a military super power. they supply alot of european and international countrys with oil and gas. the uk by 2020 will need to get 80% of its gas from europe if the nuclear power plants don’t get approval (which i hope they don’t).
[/quote]
Read ‘Know Nukes’ by James Hogan. Nuclear is by far the best energy source for the future. In fact, elites in some countries don’t want 3rd worlders to have nukes – they know their standards of living would shoot up, with cheaper energy. Rich 3rd world countries are harder to push around compared to poor ones.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
hedo wrote:
China and Russia are far from superpowers either economic or military.
Russia is in even worse shape in terms of the economy and conventional military forces. The nukes give them partial parity.
[/quote]
Russia’s SS-27 Makes Bush’s Missile Defense A Fantasy
For anything to travel from Kapustny to Balkash in 24 minutes, it had to fly at a speed of three miles a second. That’s 180 miles a minute or 10,800 miles an hour.
If the reports were indeed true, the Topol RS 12 or the Topol SS 27, as it is known in military circles around the world, had to be the fastest thing man has ever seen. And if you will for a moment excuse the breathlessness, it also represented the pinnacle of modern missile technology. Until this test, the fastest thing known to man was the X43 A. A hypersonic, unmanned plane built by NASA. It flew at 10 times the speed of sound-almost 7,200 miles per hour.
Writes Scott Ritter, a former intelligence officer and weapons inspector in the Soviet Union and Iraq in the Christian Science Monitor:
“The Bush administration’s dream of a viable NMD has been rendered fantasy by the Russian test of the SS-27 Topol-M. To counter the SS-27 threat, the US will need to start from scratch.” http://www.rense.com/general69/tiddosdzdd27makes.htm
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
hedo wrote:
China and Russia are far from superpowers either economic or military.
The Chinese economy is dependent upon foriegn capital and markets as well as technology. Exports could be completely shut down by the US Navy in wartime. Same for imports of energy. No exports, no factory jobs, big problems for China.
Economically they are ahead in growth but the US economy is growing also and will most likely develop new technologies and industries. Russia is in even worse shape in terms of the economy and conventional military forces. The nukes give them partial parity.
That’s the strategic view, not a political one.
Wake up sleepyhead – it’s 2006…
US government warns it’s running out of cash
WASHINGTON (AFP) - Treasury Secretary John Snow has warned that unless Congress raises the national debt limit, the US government will run out of cash to finance its daily work in two months. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051230/ts_afp/uspoliticseconomy
Bush Borrowed More Than All Previous Presidents Combined, Group Says
According to the Treasury Department, from 1776-2000, the first 224 years of U.S. history, 42 U.S. presidents borrowed a combined $1.01 trillion from foreign governments and financial institutions, but in the past four years alone, the Bush administration borrowed $1.05 trillion. http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200511/NAT20051104b.html
Worry as Chinese reserves poised to touch historic US $1 trillion level
BEIJING - China’s foreign-exchange reserves rose to a record last year, almost matching Japan’s as the world’s largest, as a swelling trade surplus and money inflows betting on a currency revaluation boosted holdings.
Economists think China’s reserves could grow another 20 per cent by year’s end.
What’s the Fed Up To With the Money Supply?
On November 10th, 2005, shortly after appointing Bernanke to replace Greenbackspan, the Fed mysteriously announced with little comment and no palatable justification that they will hide M-3 effective March 2006. M-3 has been the main staple of money supply measurement and transparent disclosure since the Fed was founded back in 1913. It is the key monetary aggregate that includes Fed Repo transactions, that mechanism whereby the Fed increases reserves. The date when M-3 will start being hidden also happens to be the exact month that Iran will declare economic war against the U.S. Dollar by trading its oil in Petro-Euros on its new bourse. http://www.safehaven.com/showarticle.cfm?id=4331&pv=1
[/quote]
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
hedo wrote:
China and Russia are far from superpowers either economic or military.
Russia is in even worse shape in terms of the economy and conventional military forces. The nukes give them partial parity.
Russia’s SS-27 Makes Bush’s Missile Defense A Fantasy
For anything to travel from Kapustny to Balkash in 24 minutes, it had to fly at a speed of three miles a second. That’s 180 miles a minute or 10,800 miles an hour.
If the reports were indeed true, the Topol RS 12 or the Topol SS 27, as it is known in military circles around the world, had to be the fastest thing man has ever seen. And if you will for a moment excuse the breathlessness, it also represented the pinnacle of modern missile technology. Until this test, the fastest thing known to man was the X43 A. A hypersonic, unmanned plane built by NASA. It flew at 10 times the speed of sound-almost 7,200 miles per hour.
Writes Scott Ritter, a former intelligence officer and weapons inspector in the Soviet Union and Iraq in the Christian Science Monitor:
“The Bush administration’s dream of a viable NMD has been rendered fantasy by the Russian test of the SS-27 Topol-M. To counter the SS-27 threat, the US will need to start from scratch.” http://www.rense.com/general69/tiddosdzdd27makes.htm
Partial parity at the least. A test means it is years away from eventual deployment.
Your grasp of military matters is weak JTF. Do you think the Russians would dare use one. Do you think the Chinese would try a nuke on the country that allows thier econonmy to function.
[quote]hedo wrote:
They will not be allowed to acquire nukes.
It is too dangerous for them to have a nuke because they will use it or give it to a proxy. It’s all well and good to debate the issue and hope for the best but in the end common sense needs to take over. Either the US or Israel will settle the matter. They are the two countries that have both the ability and the will to fix the problem.
I really hope diplomcy works but I am not optomistic on that happening.
[/quote]
Of course Pakistan, India, N. Korea, China, Russia, all have nukes, so this line of reasoning doesn’t really mean anything.
[quote]100meters wrote:
hedo wrote:
They will not be allowed to acquire nukes.
It is too dangerous for them to have a nuke because they will use it or give it to a proxy. It’s all well and good to debate the issue and hope for the best but in the end common sense needs to take over. Either the US or Israel will settle the matter. They are the two countries that have both the ability and the will to fix the problem.
I really hope diplomcy works but I am not optomistic on that happening.
Of course Pakistan, India, N. Korea, China, Russia, all have nukes, so this line of reasoning doesn’t really mean anything.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
fixedgear758 wrote:
There were no Iranians on any planes being flown into buildings. Get your shit straight. I have family in Iran, and none of them is a terrorist.
Get your shit straight. Show me where I accused the Iranians of anything. You evidently mis-understood the converstaion which you quoted. The conversation was about the GWOT, and islamofacism. I could give a shit where you or your family are from. There are nice people all over the globe, and to think that the U.S. is at war with the peace loving folk of any country is just propagandist bullshit.
But - It was the Iranian islamo-facists who took over our Embasssy in the late 70’s. It was islamo-facists that were responsible for the Beruit bombing attacks in 1983, and the current leader of Iran is 100% islamo-facist. He was one of the terrorists that took innocent people hostage in Iran in the late 70’s.
You guys have to keep in mind that there are normal real people living in that country that all of you think can just be killed. If that’s the way you feel, I hope someday the same thing happens to your loved ones.
If my loved ones sit idly by and allow islamo-facists to dictate their lives to them, I hope they face the firiest hell that Satan has to offer. To allow such ignorance to rule a country is criminal.
[/quote]
You made some comment about how we need to take care of these people flying planes into buildings, or something like that. You posted that on a forum about a war with Iran, so everyone is talking about Iran. To me, that means you think there was Iranians on planes.
As for taking over the embassy, maybe you should look a little further into that and see the CIA involvement in Iran during that whole thing.
Anyway, there’s really no point in trying to talk to you about anything, you people in Texas all have thick, redneck heads.
hedo, your ignorance astounds me. this is not a bashing of the united states we are discussing here. this is a discussion about policy regarding the country called Iran. for you to charge in an defend the U.S. as if it were under attack is foolish. nobody here is attacking our country. we are only pointing out flaws in our presidents political pathways. there is nothing to be soo gun ho about, you have no cause here. if you can’t contribute to the topic keep your fingers off the keys. as for everybody else can we get back on topic. the financial position of our country is not under discussion here either. there in NO need to get overly worked up. these are only thoughts written by a bunch of muscle heads(present company included). insults only display your lack of communication skill. Furthermore let me clear this up real fast. I DO NOT SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT OF IRAN IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, MY COMMENT ABOUT MIS-QUOTEING WAS ONLY TO SHOW THAT JUST BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. if you failed to grasp that than maybe i did not express myself adequitely. back on topic please!
[quote]mazilla wrote:
hedo, your ignorance astounds me. this is not a bashing of the united states we are discussing here. this is a discussion about policy regarding the country called Iran. for you to charge in an defend the U.S. as if it were under attack is foolish. nobody here is attacking our country. we are only pointing out flaws in our presidents political pathways. there is nothing to be soo gun ho about, you have no cause here. if you can’t contribute to the topic keep your fingers off the keys. as for everybody else can we get back on topic. the financial position of our country is not under discussion here either. there in NO need to get overly worked up. these are only thoughts written by a bunch of muscle heads(present company included). insults only display your lack of communication skill. Furthermore let me clear this up real fast. I DO NOT SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT OF IRAN IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, MY COMMENT ABOUT MIS-QUOTEING WAS ONLY TO SHOW THAT JUST BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. if you failed to grasp that than maybe i did not express myself adequitely. back on topic please![/quote]
Clearly you failed to express yourself adequately. I’ve read many of your posts on various threads…what is your point on this one? What is the idea you would like to discuss?
My points are pretty simple. I don’t think Iran should be permitted to have nuclear weapons. I think the US should prevent this from happening. I hope the rest of the world helps out. I don’t think the Israeli’s will allow Iran to go nuclear either because of the threat it represents to them. I think the president of Iran is demented based on his public comments.
I am obviosuly well informed on the topic so I don’t see the relevance of your reference to my ignorance of the subject. Perhaps you view disagreement as ignorance rather then a different opinion. You made a reference to Wal-Mart having a sale on cruise missles on another thread and you want to debate US/Iran policy seriously?
You also may want to reconsider your critique of my communication skills. Capitalization, spelling, punctuation and basic sentence structure are the starting point of good written communication. Reread your post with that in mind. If your trying to be funny you made me laugh.
My points are pretty simple. I don’t think Iran should be permitted to have nuclear weapons. I think the US should prevent this from happening. I hope the rest of the world helps out. I don’t think the Israeli’s will allow Iran to go nuclear either because of the threat it represents to them. I think the president of Iran is demented based on his public comments.
my point is this.
nobody here believes that Iran should have the bomb. who is arguing that with you? nobody. it’s an of the wall rant your going on. every time somebody say’s something in regard to another solution you shoot it down,(no pun intended) as if it were slander against our country. yes, we know war is a possability, everybody knows that. you don’t have to repeat it. change the station. i am sure you have some military back ground, or at least you make it appear that way. if this is so i can understand your mentality, if not then, there is no excuse except ignorance. my family lives in Iran so don’t come to me with your hair brained half ass political theories. you make yourself out to be a fool. and i am not going to get back into the capatalize your word shit again, this is chat. get over it.nerdmeister.
lighten up. tank guy, remove the MRE from your anus, it will clear your thoughts.
p.s. i love you.
pps. what’s the matter can’t say it back? i thought i meant more to you than that tank guy. is it my grammar? i knew it.weeeeping…ass
oh yea, about the wal-mart thing, that was a joke. you know a joke. like your threads, a joke. if i was wal-mart i would go into weapons contract’s. that way i would be rooted in the U.S. economy permanently. then i would buy my way into power, and have this whole country as my weapon. to take over the world. on nation under walmart with sales on clearance items for all.amen