The War With Iran - Day 1

[quote]fixedgear758 wrote:
You made some comment about how we need to take care of these people flying planes into buildings, or something like that. You posted that on a forum about a war with Iran, so everyone is talking about Iran. To me, that means you think there was Iranians on planes.[/quote]

Sorry, kiddo - but the Iranians were labeled as part of the Evil Empire along with Iraq, and N.Korea. Iran is part of the GWOT. The conversation from which you lifted my words was talking about islamo-facism - which is part and parcel to terrorism - and why the U.S. is hated. But had you actually read what was going on wrt context, you would have known that. I could give a flying fuck what you think - as you have proved yourself completely inept in understand context.

Are you saying that the terrorist takeover of an Embassy, and holding innocent people hostage was the doings of the CIA? I would dearly love to see proof of this. Was the CIA also invloved in the Beruit bombing? Seeing as how you were not even a wet spot in your daddy’s underwear when Iranian terrorists stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran - I call bullshit on you. Accusations void of proof looks and smells exactly like the bullshit you are spreading here.

And you cry like a fucking baby if anyone insults your family? Can you spell hypocrisy? Atleast my thick head has more than hatred and bigotry residing between its ears - which is more than can be said for your sorry excuse for cranial space.

Mazilla

What are you talking about asswipe?

Obviously you need to brush up on your English comprehension as well as your writing skills.

Have a wonderful day and feel free to excercise your right to shut the fuck up and move on.

ladies and gentelman:
Can we please stop insulting each other. I am just as guilty as the rest of you. This is not getting us anywhere. Instead of writing about important things, i find myself preparing to return an offense. What a waste of time. I apologize to the people i have offended. That was not my intent. this subject is very important to me and the other persian people reading this because we have family there, and here. It is a difficult situation. There are no excuses, but i hope that we can return to an organized discussion. thanks.
That being said, war is not the answer, if israel strikes i believe it will bring only more trouble to the U.S. as it will show that we attack through our allies, that will place them(our allies) at risk as well as raise the level of hatred for us and them the world around. Our image has been damaged enough for now. It is time to repair it through diplomacy. We don’t want to go the way of EVERY other world power. We are a big target, at home and abroad. I believe that it is imperative that our nation get it together. Long live the United States, and her people, because that is what we have to lose.

P.S. See tank guy, I even capitalized my letters for you. Lets take it down a notch.

I will ignore that last comment, i was busy writing when you posted it. not very nice tank guy. military? my brother was deployed to Iraq twice.

come on tank guy, i know your out there. your not my friend anymore? i miss you big guy. i miss your tankiness, your short temper and your musk, i miss your musk. i think when this is over we should get a place together.(from anchorman, just in case people don’t get it), they probably won’t. ttyl tanky.

The Army War College: Getting Ready for a Nuclear-Ready Iran

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB629.pdf

I dont’ think it’s worth it Mazilla. Let them make all their war plans and whatnot. No use wasting your time.

This thread went down fast

I think this is a great analysis:

http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2006/01/grappling-with-ayatollahs.html

Grappling with the ayatollahs

John Keegan lays out what sees are the West’s options with respect to Iran:

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/01/12/do1202.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2006/01/12/ixopinion.html

[i]The pressing question is, indeed, what is to be done when a report to the Security Council fails to bring Iran to desist from nuclear enrichment? ... It is much more doubtful whether sanctions would make Iran change its policy. ...

America and the EU3 must therefore consider other, harsher methods to restrain Iran. The fact that the United States at present deploys a large army in Iraq is a factor that must give the ayatollahs pause. To stage a second war in the Middle East would not be a desirable initiative at present for America and would certainly be highly unpopular at home and among its allies. Moreover, Iran, as the possessor of the second largest oil reserves in the world and occupier of a strategic position athwart the sea routes delivering oil to most of the consuming world, has its own means of retaliation ready to hand.

Nevertheless, the West cannot simply let things drift. Military action by whatever agency cannot be written out, but will be a last resort. ... For if the West is considering military action, so are the ayatollahs. They are the sponsors of much of the insurgency in Iraq and suppliers of the insurgents' weapons. They also have intimate links with most of the world's worst terrorist organisations, including al-Qa'eda and Hezbollah. ... Moreover, while Iran has its own armoury of medium-range missiles suitable for nuclear delivery, the ayatollahs are also known to favour the placing of nuclear warheads in target cities by terrorists travelling by car or public transport. This is a bad and worrying time in world affairs.[/i]

Commentary

The most interesting thing about the structure of the standoff between the West and Iran is that what chiefly prevents a regime change in Teheran is not the want of means, but the want of will. The ayatollah’s fundamental defense lies in the well-founded belief that the United States has expended too much political capital in deposing Saddam to undertake another regime change operation in Teheran. Safety for the ayatollahs does not consist in the assurance that there aren’t enough US ground, air and naval units to smash their regime, but in the calculation that no American President would chance it after three years of political pillorying for OIF.

That means that the ayatollahs are safe for so long as nothing occurs to prevent a sudden stiffening in political will in the West. John Keegan is correct when he says that the ayatollahs have military options. What he does not pursue is what should happen if the ayatollahs actually use them. The Iranian regime operates under the unstated, but nevertheless real constraint that in confronting the West it must take care not to go too far. If Iran were to simply quietly acquire nuclear weapons it would be doubtful whether the United States leadership could muster enough political steam to crush the ayatollahs. However, if the ayatollahs were rash or enraged enough to actually strike the West the equation could change overnight.

Both the regime in Teheran and Washington are like Olympic wrestlers grappling within a narrowly bounded mat. The instant anyone should step or be forced outside the mat the buzzer will sound and a new and deadlier match will begin. Unfortunately the boundaries of the arena are invisible to both sides. How far can America push Iran? How far can Iran push America? Iran has the advantage of knowing that the US will stop short of overt military action against them – for the time being. But it has the disadvantage of not knowing how far it can let Al Qaeda and Hezbollah go without bringing down the spectators from the stands.

This makes the feint the deadliest weapon in the US arsenal. Sending air wings to exercise in Southwest Asia, for example, is something the Iranians will deeply resent. But should they respond – even if they could? It was said of Admiral John Jellicoe that he was the only person capable of losing the First World War in an afternoon, because as commander of the British Grand Fleet, he could throw away the foundational power of Britain in a single naval disaster.

It may equally be said that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad alone can strip Iran of its invulnerability to military action in a single rash moment. In that sense he is not, as some pundits think, the worst possible leader Iran could have at the moment. On the contrary, this unstable, bellicose man is from another point of view the answer to all his enemy’s prayers.

Good summation of what the administration has done thus far:

EXCERPT:

Consider what the U.S. has done vis-?-vis Iran:

1) Deferring to the EU-3 on negotiations towards Iran;

2) Backing away from having the IAEA refer Iran's noncompliance to the UN Security Council unless and until there was overwhelming international support from key members in that organization for the move;

3) Sharing their intelligence about Iran's nuclear ambitions with all the relevant governments;

4) Endorsing a Russian compromise proposal that would have allowed Iran to continue a nuclear energy program ( http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/002425.html );

5) Securing the support of China and Russia in ratcheting up the rhetoric towards Iran ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/16/AR2006011600281.html ).

Isn’t this the sort of multi-lateral diplomatic stuff everyone wants the U.S. to do?

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
This thread went down fast[/quote]

Too many kids regurgitating what their genius poly sci profs are telling them to last very long. Or idiots making up lies to substantiate their belief that Iran is a nation brimming with innocent little islamo-facists.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Good summation of what the administration has done thus far:

EXCERPT:

Consider what the U.S. has done vis-?-vis Iran:

1) Deferring to the EU-3 on negotiations towards Iran;

2) Backing away from having the IAEA refer Iran's noncompliance to the UN Security Council unless and until there was overwhelming international support from key members in that organization for the move;

3) Sharing their intelligence about Iran's nuclear ambitions with all the relevant governments;

4) Endorsing a Russian compromise proposal that would have allowed Iran to continue a nuclear energy program ( http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/002425.html );

5) Securing the support of China and Russia in ratcheting up the rhetoric towards Iran ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/16/AR2006011600281.html ).

Isn’t this the sort of multi-lateral diplomatic stuff everyone wants the U.S. to do?
[/quote]

Good stuff BB, though I fear this will fall on deaf ears.