The USA: A Dictatorship!

[quote]Professor X wrote:
storey420 wrote:

Before any of the sleepers chime in with tin foil talk and condescending bs, I just wanted to say that this was a nice post and I wish more people would pipe up and take notice at what is going on with our civil liberties and where this great nation, that I love, is sliding to.

I have little faith in die hard “Bush fans” being able to discuss the possible problems and the negative outcomes. The reason? I was saying the same thing on this forum back when Patriot Act I was all we knew about. It seemed most of the responses then were in denial to some degree. You can go back and read the responses (Just type Patriot Act into the search engine).

We are losing out in this country based on “fear” and it seems many are all too ready to just give up freedoms and privacy as if they aren’t valuable at all.[/quote]

The difference between PI and PII is that PI had expirations and PII doesn’t. PII is a travesty, and that’s all I’m gonna say about that.

~ R-KS Jackzepplin

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
23andbeginner wrote:
…By the way, there is no need to go to conspiracy sites any longer. There have been 600 movies made so far showing the WTC, Oklahoma were inside jobs in fact. The “theorists” use CNN footage and world renowned specialists.

Tube Steak Boogie.

When you start posting complete and utter bullshit like this, it invalidates all your crazy political opinions.
[/quote]

Okay…I don’t have to say anything.

Thank you Zap

23and,

I think my subtle sarcasm was lost on you…

I am concerned for the direction of our country. I come from a family where many have served or are serving right now in the military. Two things should be important to the American people:

  1. Maintaining personal freedom
  2. Protecting human life

To me it seems as if our country is doing quite the opposite. We have had far too many troop losses, let alone civilian losses, and there seems to be no progress made on eliminating terrorism.
I think our current administration has a problem with human life, they simply have no respect for it.

It seems we wouldnt need these acts if big brother would not let every tom dick & harry come & go in and out of our country as they please.hell you get more scrutiny trying to get a check cashed at your local bank.

Oh really Zap? Ever seen anything that tall fall on its very footprint when the damage was in fact besically one sided?

Ever seen a plane without windows and something underneath it that looks like a bunker buster? How is that an American Airlines flight? Watch the CNN footage the plane is gray.

Since when does steel melt at roughly 1000 degrees? I study what we call Werkstoffkunde. I am somewhat an amateur, but what they claim happend did in fact not happen.

If the steel has been weakend and therefore failed, why did all the news report explosions and why did Australia pick up somehting like a category 2.2 and 2.3 earthquake before the buildings fall? Why did the media widely report explosions? Where are these reports now? Thy all shut up.

Look a the structure of the building to confirm that even if that steel failed merely the outer sides of the building would collapse but not the intact steel structure in the middle. The first floor has the same structure as floor 90 had. Floor one is also holding about 10 times more weight. the same structure that is. The power of 20 floors collapsing would have been no factor for floor 80ty or 70ty. Since the steel structure is built so that if the floor falls down it still stands.
Something took out the steel underneath, into need standart demolition size to be carried away in standart sized containers within 4-5 weeks. They first said it was gonna take a year or longer for that.
The building comes down in roughly 8 seconds. Something around 10 stories per second. Physics tells me this is about free fall speed. No slowing down. It was speeding up in fact like a free fall. If a floor hits the next floor it would take a little time for the structure to collapse at least for the first 30 or so floors. No slowing down though.
Why did WTC 7 go down? They said on TV they made the decision to “pull it”. Who do you do the work needed for that in minutes? Setting something like 500 charges doing the mats needed etc.? Why did the collapse look exactly like that of the WTC towers if it was pulled? Why does nobody shoe the videos any more?
There is about another 40 valid questions out there. Noone asking though and noone answering any of those.

People draw your own conclusions and don’t believe people that tell you everyone thinking is an “idiot”, “conpiracy jackass”, “communist”, “terrorist” or evil and needs to shut up. Either you are with us or against us? What happend to the idea of sorting everything through, discussing it and letting pople draw their own conclusions? Freedom of speech not needed now? All we need ist Bush saying it CNN covering it and everyone believing it now?

Ups sorry vroom, i just hear so many people say stuff like that and mean it.

I take everything i said back then.

Police State Conditioning: Security Check-In Toy

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Ha… Vroom, The funniest part is that his post was like 3 pages long, and it was spawned in response to your “serious” post.

There is no cover up and we do not live in a dictatorship. You’re saying things that have been said by a thousand different people over the last 200 yrs of our representative democracy during all kinds of national strife (McCarthy era, all through the 60?s and 70?s, even during the Civil and Revolutionary war?s there were conspiracy theories abound). Bush will leave office and 4 yrs and after that, most likely, the presidency will turn over again. It’s called a “representative democracy” not a dictatorship. That’s why we have different political parties etc. So stop chasing straw men, stop citing ridiculous far-fetched internet moon bat statistics/theories as fact. In a million years nobody could put together such an elaborate scheme. Think of it this way, if a man and a woman have an affair, somebody always finds out. Now try and gat several hundred people to agree to strapping bombs to a plane, coordinate cell phone calls from airplanes, load up several high rise buildings in NYC with explosives all wired together, get the FAA, FBI, local fire inspectors, police, DoD etc to go along with this by not sounding the alarm when they find something suspicious during on site analysis of the crime scene…utter nonsense

P.S. I just joined this group because it reflected the same seriousness I have in my athletic life and my fist post has to be on this. Crazy.

[quote]23andbeginner wrote:
Oh really Zap? Ever seen anything that tall fall on its very footprint when the damage was in fact besically one sided?

… [/quote]

Really.

The WTC did not fall down because of the impact, it fell down because the steel was weakened (not melted) by the massive fire.

It behaved exactly as would be expected if a massive load of jet fuel was ignited inside it.

These wacko theories have been thoughly debunked.

I suggest you start reading books instead of conspiracy theory websites.

“Naturally the common people don’t want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
-Reich Marshal Hermann Goering, Nuremberg trials

“A transformation strategy that solely pursued capabilities for projecting force from the United States, for example, and sacrificed forward basing and presence, would be at odds with larger American policy goals and would trouble American allies. Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions.”
-[page 51] “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” Project for a New American Century - Sept 2000

Signitories included: Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush, William Kristol, Richard Perle

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted.

Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
-Dwight D Eisenhower

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
It behaved exactly as would be expected if a massive load of jet fuel was ignited inside it.

These wacko theories have been thoughly debunked.
[/quote]

Of course a jet didn’t smash into bldg 7 and knock off the fire proofing that supposedly allowed the columns of the bigger towers to heat up to the point of collapse.

See, this looks perfectly normal.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/WTC7_Collapse.mpg

Show everyone the “debunking” of the tower 7 collapse, Zap. If any place would have it, it would be in the 9/11 Report.

23:
wow, you`re creating lots of trouble as always… :smiley:

[quote]rugbyhit wrote:
“There is no cover up and we do not live in a dictatorship.”

If that is true, then why exactly are Kerry and Bush cuisins? Why is it that vote machines are being replaced by computers now? The guy building those coincedently happend to have donated 2 Million dollars for the Bushs’ voting campaign in Florida? Why is it that votes were counted, that were 2 weeks overdue, all Bush votes from military personel worldwide? Why is Bush president when Kerry won?
Have you read Patriot Act 2? How is that not a dictatorship.
I hate to give you a conspiracy website to check it out but finding this secret law on an official website is impossible. See www.infowars.com and check it out there.

“You’re saying things that have been said by a thousand different people over the last 200 yrs of our representative democracy during all kinds of national strife (McCarthy era, all through the 60?s and 70?s, even during the Civil and Revolutionary war?s there were conspiracy theories abound).”

They talked about WTC back then? Didn’t see people’s rights being taken away during the Revolution. Sry some people will flat out not believe your guy’s attacks not shut up and still check
the patriot act 2 out. Post it here if you can.
I’ll shut up if you find it on any official site and yet it is the law.

“Bush will leave office and 4 yrs and after that, most likely, the presidency will turn over again. It’s called a “representative democracy” not a dictatorship.”

Let’s see if the head of Homeland Security, CIA, the vice president (the man really in power of what’s going on in america), Rumsfeld, Rice and all these people stay or not, shall we? I take bets on that.

“That’s why we have different political parties etc.”

doh, really?

“So stop chasing straw men,”

just telling you what’s going on in america in case you might not have access to anything but the Time Warner owned CNN or Fox or anything like that.

“stop citing ridiculous far-fetched internet moon bat”

what would that be? i can back up anything i say, can you back up that claim?

“statistics/theories as fact.”

Look at the CNN video of the second flight if you recorded it or check it out on the CNN DVD about 9/11. It is CNN’s own footage. You can clearly see it is not a civil plane. That is fact. WTC 7 was pulled. Just watch it. You want facts? How about 200 skyscrapers have burned in history. Some of them for as long as a week. Not one came down. Remember when the fire was already almost out? Looked like there wasn’t much burning in there any more? Fuck it i’ll just post the pics and you think about the fuel story one more time.

“In a million years nobody could put together such an elaborate scheme. Think of it this way, if a man and a woman have an affair, somebody always finds out.”

Alot of the time that is what happens, yes. Oh somebody carried exactly that out before. The Reichstagsbrand comes to my mind. Adolf Hitler gave himself a dictators power shortly after he burned down this government bilding.

“Now try and gat several hundred people to agree to strapping bombs to a plane,”

or a guy to put a computer in one, a guy to built a bunker buster, a guy to drive the bunker buster to an airforce base, a guy strapping something believed to be a new radar to a large white plane, a guy to give a plane a different color,…

"coordinate cell phone calls from airplanes, "

well you know there have been two phonecalls from about 150 people. Nowadays everyone has a cell phone. How can a lady calmly talk on the phone for 30 minutes and apperently walk through the plane and noone else can? Also i have a voice program here. If you say 3000 sentences in it, i can make you say anything and your mom couldn’t tell the difference. My program is old. I heard about one from Denmark that can pick up on the speed and way you talk your accent and all that within 3 minutes. So that is not nearly as impossible as you make it out.

“load up several high rise buildings in NYC with explosives all wired together,”

no need for wires silly, and there is reports of cia and fbi doing drills in those buildings and evacuating whole floors in the process.

“get the FAA,”

i don’t trust them.

" FBI,"

some who wouldn’t shut up about what they saw.like for example a black box being recovered were fired but giuliani was in charge of the invertigations not FBI right? The FBI wasn’t allowed to ask the Bin Ladens anything after it happend, remember? Do you believe Michael Moore made that up?

“local fire inspectors,”

Lost jobs there, too. 50% of New York’s people believe the government had their hands in this. The fire inspectors had to give all evidence, all tapes, all videos to the police and still there is a tape of someone in WTC saying something like. “The fire is two isolated pockets…we need two lalalala…we’ll have it out…it is under control…” I don’t remember the exact words but i remember under control and two isolated pockets and i remember the pic were it was almost out and CNN zoomed in on it. That i remember. This tape is all over the internet. I might not be hard evidence but the physics involved show the hard evidence.

"police, "

giuliani (spelling?) had nothing else to do but send the evidence to china instead. He is a former prosecuter. He knows not do stuff like that.

“DoD etc”

what’s that? i don’t even know.

“to go along with this by not sounding the alarm when they find something suspicious during on site analysis of the crime scene…”

the crimeszene was analized? i remember it being taken away to china. well if they analized it when did the results come out? I don’t remember any results. All that was examined was how many rights you my friend would give up if they stated Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein had their hands in this. The war on terror. Remember the 19 pilots? 9 are still alive. Didn’t they say they found a passport, like a passport would survive the impact and the fire? Well the real problem is the guy who owns the passport is still alive and happily working. What’s going on here?

“utter nonsense”

Patriot Act 2 is no science fiction. Find it on any government site. I’ll donate 100 bucks for the Republicans next time you guys get to vote, if you do, that is.

“P.S. I just joined this group because it reflected the same seriousness I have in my athletic life and my fist post has to be on this. Crazy. [/quote]”

Sry for that man in case it’s true. You might have joined because your job is keeping patriot act 2 from the public? Who knows? If i am off on this, simply heck out the info on sports on here. It is state of the art. People here discuss all sorts of things that can make you a better athlete. Not only that you can learn to be a T-man. That involves sorting through the evidence before you make up your own mind though. Something you clearly failed to do in your first post.

I tried to post pics i’ll try one more time

see pics here:

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/02/310898.shtml

I can’t tell you how sick I am of these bullshit kind of statements. I have my problems with aspects of this Administration as well as the Patriot Act itself (as much because I think it’s ineffective as an infringement on liberties). But to call the U.S. a dictatorship even half in jest is just ridiculous. The fact that you can call the U.S. a dictatorship itself shows that it’s not.

Well they can’t murder me for that.

You, now that’s a different story

Let me just tell you who ACLU is and what they are doing:

"The ACLU is our nation’s guardian of liberty. We work daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Our job is to conserve America’s original civic values - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The American system of government is founded on two counterbalancing principles: that the majority of the people governs, through democratically elected representatives; and that the power even of a democratic majority must be limited, to ensure individual rights.

Majority power is limited by the Constitution’s Bill of Rights, which consists of the original ten amendments ratified in 1791, plus the three post-Civil War amendments (the Thirteenth, Fourteenth and Fifteenth) and the Nineteenth Amendment (women’s suffrage), adopted in 1920.

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:

* Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.
* Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.
* Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
* Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

We work also to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including Native Americans and other people of color; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgendered people; women; mental-health patients; prisoners; people with disabilities; and the poor.

If the rights of society’s most vulnerable members are denied, everybody’s rights are imperiled.

The ACLU was founded by Roger Baldwin, Crystal Eastman, Albert DeSilver and others in 1920. We are nonprofit and nonpartisan and have grown from a roomful of civil liberties activists to an organization of more than 400,000 members and supporters. We handle nearly 6,000 court cases annually from our offices in almost every state.

The ACLU has maintained the position that civil liberties must be respected, even in times of national emergency. The ACLU is supported by annual dues and contributions from its members, plus grants from private foundations and individuals. We do not receive any government funding. Learn more about joining the ACLU."

I am not the only “crazy” person after all, huh?

Patriot Act 2 is fundamentally flawed because it relies on a false premise ? that America can be safer if we do away with basic checks and balances. By undermining the role of the courts, Congress and the press in providing a real check on executive power, Patriot Act 2 directs its ire at the institutions of our democracy instead of at the terrorists that threaten it. In so doing, it threatens to undermine the rights of ordinary people and, ironically, the war against terrorism.

[quote]23andbeginner wrote:
Sry for that man in case it’s true. You might have joined because your job is keeping patriot act 2 from the public? Who knows? [/quote]

http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20050125-000003.html