On the one hand, I am pissed at these enviro-terrorists, obviously, but I can’t help but be a little minorly peeved at the researcher for quitting. I know, I know, his children, etc. But still… weird, huh? I can’t explain it.
Anyway, just thought we could get a thread going here on something besides Jesus, Hitler, or buttsecks.
Any of you radical Illuminatard conspiracy kooks part of PETA? Maybe NAMBLA? This could be a good opportunity to insult you in a different fashion than I usually do.
It’s funny… these “activist” groups will go so far as to use explosives (car bombs; there was a Molotov cocktail mentioned in the article) and other extreme violence in order to scare researchers, and then they get upset when they are called terrorists. Well, ya know what? If it walks like a duck…
I’m all for animal rights – to an extent. Placing a Molotov cocktail on someone’s doorstep; rigging their vehicle to explode; threatening their family… this goes too far.
The Molotov in question was mistakenly placed on the doorstep of an elderly neighbor to the “target”. Nice job, dumbasses. Had you been smart enough to make it properly, and the thing had exploded and taken that elderly person’s life, I’m sure the family would have understood that you accidentally killed their loved-one in an attempt to kill another person, and all would have been forgiven.
And all of that is not to gloss over the personal harrassment, threats, public dissemination of personal info… and, ironically, wreckless endangerment of the ones these groups are trying to protect (many times the setting-free of the animals will lead to the death of those same animals when they are let go into a non-native environment where they might fall prey to predators, or are unable to survive in the climate; not to mention that the “releasees” might end up devastating the environment they’re released into as non-native predators, themselves).
Is this type of “activism” just very difficult to prosecute under the law? I guess I don’t understand the mindset of people thinking that they can get away with it.
I understand that we all have a right to protest in this country, but, for example, if a group steps up and takes credit for planting an explosive as a means of protesting a researcher’s work (not simply to destroy property, but to cause injury or death), why is that group still allowed to function?
Is that not the same thing we are fighting a war against outside the country?
I understand the researcher’s position. When you have fucking nuts targetting your family, you can’t really take chances. It’s one thing to be ready to risk your life for your principles; it’s another thing entirely to risk your kid’s and wife’s lives. You can try and ignore the threats, but it takes only one of the more retarded fuckers to push it too far and you’ll be putting small coffins in the ground.
I can’t understand the reasoning of these people. To prevent an animal from “suffering” they will kill humans? Threaten kids? What kind of brain-dead lopsided no-logic reasoning leads to that? These organisations need to be investigated and dismantled, with the ringleaders put behind bars. The wacko nutjobs who do the dirty work are too stupid to organize on their own; you cut off the heads of these organizations, using say, life sentences in butt-pounding prisons, and you’ll see them dry up.
[quote]pookie wrote:
I can’t understand the reasoning of these people. To prevent an animal from “suffering” they will kill humans? Threaten kids? What kind of brain-dead lopsided no-logic reasoning leads to that? These organisations need to be investigated and dismantled, with the ringleaders put behind bars. The wacko nutjobs who do the dirty work are too stupid to organize on their own; you cut off the heads of these organizations, using say, life sentences in butt-pounding prisons, and you’ll see them dry up.
[/quote]
I can kinda understand their logic. I would rather harm these fuckers than some random animal. Unless that animal was one of todays six non-vegan meals. Or my leather stuff. Or the unknown quantities of animal derived glues and binders in various stuff I own.
I’ve said it a few times before, but it bears noting.
Once you have a wife and/or children, your ability to be idealistic is only as strong as is their health and safety. This is why it is so easy for small groups to exert such a large impact.
People quickly learn that they can’t always stand up for what they believe in as the cost will be too high. Higher than sacrificing just yourself for your own principles.
They should be declared a terrorist organization so that contributors are placed on a “watch list”. That would dry up their funding pretty quick.
If someone I knew told me they were a member of ALF I would either turn them in to the FBI or burn their house down with them in it, depending on my mood that day. Fucking assholes.
[quote]vroom wrote:
I’ve said it a few times before, but it bears noting.
Once you have a wife and/or children, your ability to be idealistic is only as strong as is their health and safety. This is why it is so easy for small groups to exert such a large impact.
People quickly learn that they can’t always stand up for what they believe in as the cost will be too high. Higher than sacrificing just yourself for your own principles.[/quote]
I hear ya, buddy, but for some reason, I have this feeling that there must have been something else that this guy could have done besides quit. There’s legal remedies, restraining orders, ceast and desist orders, etc. and by the time it gets to police protection, some judge somewhere is going to get tired of this shit and issue a warrant or SOMETHING I would hope.
Like I said, something just feels off to me here.
Nevermind: I got it. Went back and read the link and this guy got phone calls and some protesters outside his house and that’s it. The molotov cocktail was somebody else.
C’mon that’s just being a pussy in a way isn’t it? Open your window and yell at the protesters to suck it and go to work the next day. Eat some red meat for chissakes! I’m not going to be intimidated by some vegan sign holding faggots marching like a bunch of douches outside my driveway because I experiment on monkeys, and neither should have this guy.
Still, I would guess that the protesting should have been done at the university, and they probably shouldn’t have harrassed him at his home phone. There’s got to be some kind of legal boundary they crossed if they threatened him with any kind of violence, right?
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
I hear ya, buddy, but for some reason, I have this feeling that there must have been something else that this guy could have done besides quit. There’s legal remedies, restraining orders, ceast and desist orders, etc. and by the time it gets to police protection, some judge somewhere is going to get tired of this shit and issue a warrant or SOMETHING I would hope.[/quote]
Do you have kids? If so, would you chance it?
If you don’t, I don’t think you can entirely understand how a parent feels when threats are levelled at his kids.
[quote]Like I said, something just feels off to me here.
Nevermind: I got it. Went back and read the link and this guy got phone calls and some protesters outside his house and that’s it. The molotov cocktail was somebody else.[/quote]
Whether they actually go through with their threats is irrelevant. Getting phone call or letters where your wife and children are threatened is simply not something you can brush off.
All it takes is one of the loonies stupid enough to carry it through.
Think of how your wife feels? How your kids will feel if they get wind of it? Maybe one of the morons stops your daughter at school and tells her “Your dad hurts animals, so I’m going to hurt you too…”
If he was single, that course of action would be no problem.
It’s probably illegal; but finding the culprits and prosecuting them is probably very difficult/costly/time consuming/etc.
That’s why I think the law needs to go after the organizations themselves. The “heads” are the ones who come up with strategy and tactics. The lowly morons who execute wouldn’t be able to plan all of this themselves.
Put “PETA” in Google Video or Youtube and have a look at videos made by these retards where they glorify and adulate criminals who use threats, violence, arson and vandalism to defend the poor animals.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
I hear ya, buddy, but for some reason, I have this feeling that there must have been something else that this guy could have done besides quit. There’s legal remedies, restraining orders, ceast and desist orders, etc. and by the time it gets to police protection, some judge somewhere is going to get tired of this shit and issue a warrant or SOMETHING I would hope.[/quote]
Pookie already did a good job on this, but I would like to add that the legal system is generally geared towards punishing AFTER the fact.
It is of scant comfort to know that the guilty party should eventually be punished if they follow through on any of their threats.
I don’t know, pooks. I think I’m calling bullshit on this. Here’s the “organization” which is responsible for the researcher quitting, and the page they posted on their website about him:
No home number. All we see is the work number and an email for the Uni. His house was demonstrated against… totally within the rights of the “primate freedom” idiots, I guess.
I’m going to have to stick to my guns on this one, I think. Some assholes yelling slogans can be irritating, and if they violate a neighborhood noise ordinance or a disturbing the peace ordinanace, the police will remove them from in front of his driveway.
So yeah, I’m still gonna go with a cop-out puss move on the part of the researcher. Who knows, maybe his funding was gonna fall through anyway, or the experiment was fucking up and he needed an out or something. I just smell something fishy, that’s all.
Maybe it’s too much caffeine on my part, huh? Wouldn’t be the first time or the last time I’m wrong about something.
PS I have two kids. Idiots yelling slogans means I get to teach them about how some people are wrong, and not all adults are to be trusted or are right about everything. If it got so bad and the police were somehow unable to help, we get a hotel room for a few nights while I call my lawyer and sue the living shit out of anybody who emailed me, and the well-publicized organization responsible for my harrassment. These are not shadowy ninja protestors, they have a website, newsletter, a contact number:
(310) 495-0429
Something tells me the bullshit would stop pretty quick if it was over the line enough.
If someone made a brutal example of one of those ALF fellows then I think this shit would end pretty quick. There are plenty of terrorists and guerillas in this world who are sufficiently tough and committed that they cannot be cowed or intimidated. I don’t think the members of ALF are among them. These are spoiled punk emo kids fired from a record store and hating the world in which they fail. Give a few of them some “Old World” justice and the shit stops.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
I don’t know, pooks. I think I’m calling bullshit on this. Here’s the “organization” which is responsible for the researcher quitting, and the page they posted on their website about him:
No home number. All we see is the work number and an email for the Uni. His house was demonstrated against… totally within the rights of the “primate freedom” idiots, I guess.
I’m going to have to stick to my guns on this one, I think. Some assholes yelling slogans can be irritating, and if they violate a neighborhood noise ordinance or a disturbing the peace ordinanace, the police will remove them from in front of his driveway.
So yeah, I’m still gonna go with a cop-out puss move on the part of the researcher. Who knows, maybe his funding was gonna fall through anyway, or the experiment was fucking up and he needed an out or something. I just smell something fishy, that’s all.
Maybe it’s too much caffeine on my part, huh? Wouldn’t be the first time or the last time I’m wrong about something.
PS I have two kids. Idiots yelling slogans means I get to teach them about how some people are wrong, and not all adults are to be trusted or are right about everything. If it got so bad and the police were somehow unable to help, we get a hotel room for a few nights while I call my lawyer and sue the living shit out of anybody who emailed me, and the well-publicized organization responsible for my harrassment. These are not shadowy ninja protestors, they have a website, newsletter, a contact number:
(310) 495-0429
Something tells me the bullshit would stop pretty quick if it was over the line enough.[/quote]
Another possibility is that the police have been giving him the run around and he decided to do something public to put political pressure on them to act.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
I don’t know, pooks. I think I’m calling bullshit on this. Here’s the “organization” which is responsible for the researcher quitting, and the page they posted on their website about him:
No home number. All we see is the work number and an email for the Uni. His house was demonstrated against… totally within the rights of the “primate freedom” idiots, I guess.
[/quote]
And this web site would obviously be used to publish evidence of illegal actions or conduct?
You can roll the dice on the lives of your own family if you are comfortable with it. However, I don’t think you should judge another man too quickly if he feels a different decision is in order.
Obviously, I have no idea what really happened either.
Maybe the guy rethought his research and decided he was on the wrong side of the issue.
For those interested in an eventual legal solution, there’s this:
While I’m generally against more government involvement, in some cases it can prove useful to be able to prosecute before the acts are commited, as prevention, instead of after, when someone’s been hurt or killed.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
I’m going to have to stick to my guns on this one, I think. Some assholes yelling slogans can be irritating, and if they violate a neighborhood noise ordinance or a disturbing the peace ordinanace, the police will remove them from in front of his driveway.[/quote]
If it was kept to that level, then it can be endured. And I guess, depending on how old your kids are, you might be willing to bet them on it. If they’re teenages they can understand and (probably) cope with it; but if they’re very young, I’d guess it would be difficult to explain why the “bad people” who scream in front of the house won’t go away.
Still, if you haven’t done it, check out some of the PETA (and ALF, and Earth First, etc.) videos on Google and Youtube. Most of the participants are pussified morons who’ll run away the second you say “Boo!” But a few of them, given podiums and adulated as “heroes to the cause” have been in and out of prison for arson, vandalism, assault, death threats, etc.
It comes down to choosing between your job or having a bit of peace and quiet when you’re at home with your family. It’s easy for you to be gung-ho and principled when you’re not the one, with your family, who’s being targeted.
If someone I knew told me they were a member of ALF I would either turn them in to the FBI or burn their house down with them in it, depending on my mood that day. Fucking assholes.[/quote]
I’d get a pack of dogs to tear them apart for the sheer irony of it.
I’m going to have to stick to my guns on this one, I think. Some assholes yelling slogans can be irritating, and if they violate a neighborhood noise ordinance or a disturbing the peace ordinanace, the police will remove them from in front of his driveway.[/quote]
What if your wife wasn’t willing? Would you divorce and lose your kids over it?
[quote]doogie wrote:
What if your wife wasn’t willing? Would you divorce and lose your kids over it?
[/quote]
I would hope that my wife would help me out here, but you know how things go. Like I said before, I have no solid reason for being minorly disappointed in this dude, I just am.
[quote]etaco wrote:
If someone made a brutal example of one of those ALF fellows then I think this shit would end pretty quick. There are plenty of terrorists and guerillas in this world who are sufficiently tough and committed that they cannot be cowed or intimidated. I don’t think the members of ALF are among them. These are spoiled punk emo kids fired from a record store and hating the world in which they fail. Give a few of them some “Old World” justice and the shit stops.[/quote]
That’s why we never hear stories about this in Texas. Having the “right to carry” is enough of a deterrent to scare anyone from coming to an individual’s home.
The problem is this. Freedom of speech is taken to the extreme in the US. What about this guys freedom to do his job and his academic freedom to do research? It was lost because the consensus in the US seems to be that freedom of speech, even in case of these loons, especially in case of these loons, is more important.
What should be done is that these lunatics are listed. Blacklisted is such an ugly word. Simply listed.
And later, when they turn sick and go to the hospital, they should be denied any treatment because animals were used in developing that treatment.
