I love working environment stuff into training. More walls are always good. The world isn’t a wide open mat. We’ve used a bell on the wall to represent a weapon too. Ring the bell, win the roll. So now you have to think about not just rolling, but denying access to the weapon as well.
Back on the subject of training for sport vs violence, one group I train with will frown on choking someone with their own belt that’s come loose. The other group encourages it. One games illegal move is another games creative move. Training priorities matter. It makes no sense to have a bell on the wall or even have walls at all if you’re training for competition.
When I was in the mil, we did a week at the DEA academy doing some training with them. While we were working combatives in the gym they share with the FBI Academy (really basic boxing is about all I remember from that), there was a class of newly-hired security cops also doing combatives at the other end of the gym (they are the uniformed types who patrol the Academy grounds area of Quantico).
Anyway, they were in PT gear wearing their duty belts with full Bat-tools and blue guns (looked like they had fake OC cans as well). The drill was, the instructor paired them off, one was the ‘cop’ and the other was a perp. On go, the perp would attack the ‘cop’ and the goal was to either gain control over the perp or at least hold them off for 2 minutes (guessing that was somewhere around their response time for back up to arrive). What ensued was as you would expect - a lot of sloppy guard work and basic wrestling. Not to be a dick, but how much can you really learn in a few hours a week during one of those courses? Not much beyond the basics, IMO. A lot of them were fairly even, thought here were 1 or 2 guys who obviously had some wrestling background. One in particular quickly tossed the perp, created space, and drew his blue gun to hold the guy while waiting for back up.
Then there were the females. A couple did decent, got manhandled but either met the two minute time or came close. One however, literally curled into the fetal position around her still-holstered weapon and held that position as the guy ‘assaulting’ her lifted and drug her around by her duty belt, pulling each tool off in turn and pretending to use it on her. From talking to one of our DEA instructors, this was not considered to be grounds for failing the course.
Anyway, point was I thought that was an interesting drill for a cop or security to perform. Overpower and control an attacker, or at least neutralize his attacks enough to hold out long enough for backup to arrive. Good thing to do on the mat the first time, rather than try and figure it out on the street for real.
I’d love to be the perp in a drill like that. Try to cuff me! Hell I’d even be willing to get drunk and do a bunch of coke from the evidence locker to up the realism. It’s for a good cause!
The one FBI agent I’ve trained with had effectively no combative training. Great guy, solid athlete and a good learner, but i wouldn’t be able to distinguish his grappling from any other 200 lb guy who is into CrossFit.
I’m not sure there’s a good solution to that other than individual LEOs taking the initiative to train. Takes too damn long to get any good at it. It suck that the public expects black belt level skills from every cop in uniform, but those guys aren’t about to step on the mat and gain a better perspective of what struggling with another person is really like.
They’ll just keep suggesting that cops should be unarmed or should have shot the guy in the foot or something equally ridiculous.
I love the SP101 from ruger. With the rubber grip that comes with it I can shoot a cloverleaf group at 25 yards DA. But it weighs a metric ton compared to the other 5 shot anubbies from S&W, Taurus etc…
I carry at 1 o’clock IWB with every pistol just so I can keep an eye on them. If you have a SA hammer and you’re not lean like me that little bastard will poke your gut.
Would recommend a DA only filed hammer or hammer-less to keep from snagging on draws with whatever you get.
The ruger plastic wheel gun was too small for my hands.
P.S. the best/most accurate handgun of any kind I’ve ever fired was a colt python. They don’t make them any more, but a pro tip. Any handgun that gets sent back to Colt with “timing issues” (revolvers) or “failure to feed” (semis) goes to the guys at the custom shop. The one I got to shoot was slicked up by those smiths.
I am a poor handgun marksman as I grew up shooting only rifles. With that beauty I was hitting Pepsi cans at 50 yards off hand effortlessly in double action.
Even a shooter grade 4" python goes for $2k in my neck of the woods. But if cost wasn’t a concern, that’s what I would carry.
On the subject of eye gouges, and the particular example of the instructor managing to resist and sink the choke before suffering serious eye damage, my thoughts are this:
Even very realistic training like that has set parameters that diminish the effectiveness of the test. The coach knew what was coming, and was psychologically prepared. When there were fingers reaching round his eyes he was expecting it, and had a preprepared response.
I wouldn’t claim to be an expert on them, but I twice had someone do it to me during my boxing career - the old thumb in the eye done deliberately - and I have to say it was very demoralising and debilitating. Even though I was an experienced fighter by the time someone first did it to me, and had seen my fair share of ‘accidental’ headbutts and elbows, there was something frightening about the thumb in the eye that actually immediately made me feel quite fragile. Even though it was just a gloved poke, it was extremely nasty. It also, because it was streaming and my vision was impaired, made me much more susceptible to feints and dummys for a couple of minutes.
When it happened, I was in a defensive stance, and expecting trauma to my face from the guy opposite me, was quite amped up, and it still took the fight out of me both times for longer than I would have liked - particularly in a non-sporting setting.
As I say, not that experienced with them, but my feeling is that against anyone who isn’t a real experienced and determined killer up close a good poke in the eye is going to be pretty effective, at least in creating some distance for you, even against experienced fighters.
I was assigned to the academy as an instructor for a year and during " survival week" we ran a similar drill on the mats, except is was two one one, however, the suspect was told “no punches, kicks or nut shots, but don’t let them handcuff you” Basically, it was sloppy, no technique, and when everyone was exhausted after about one minute, looked like drunken hotel sex.
Some of these people had never been in a fight before and it showed. The two points it did bring out was : no matter what physical shape you are in, fights for real are exhausting. This is the best exercise I know, to bust the ego of some dipshit who thinks he is a bad ass. Having some resign after this drill was not unusual.
This is not rare, I have seen it happen just as you described. I did notice that females who had played sports in either high school or college did much better. Females who did not do any physical activity except the treadmill were the least aggressive.
That don’t surprise me, as we could dismiss a male cadet, but, a female was always sent through remedial training and then had a review board. just the state of the LE training world.
I believe it comes down to experience. You have been eye poked and got through it, so, now you know if it happens, you can respond. I would wager that 2JS has been poked many times during rolling. After you have taken your first hard shot to the balls, you know had bad it hurt, but, you survived and lived to fight on.
IMHO, best revolver ever made, a close second would be the older model Dan Wessons. Here is some news that will make you green with envy. A customs agent I know has every “snake” made by Colt and they are still in the original boxes and never been fired. Damn!
When it comes to lumens — a measure of the total quantity of visible light emitted by a source — more is not always better. Sometimes enough is enough. Too much light can be a double- edged sword, especially indoors. The reflection off of walls and other surfaces can broadcast your position as well as your adversary’s. As far as self-defense flashlight selection goes, there is a plethora to choose from. Both weapon-mounted lights and stand-alone flashlights are personal items. Whatever you choose must operate properly when needed, turn off when not needed and be intuitive in operation. It should not ever turn on accidentally. An accidental discharge of light can be detrimental to your longevity.
Too often, I hear of folks who use a weapon-mounted light but no hand-held light. Suffice it to say that I don’t think this is prudent. My first line of defense in darkness has always been my handheld light. Whether I am investigating an ally, walking my wife to her car, helping an old lady find her keys in a parking lot or signaling to someone, my handheld is ready to deploy and employ. I simply cannot do these things with a weapon-mounted light. So it’s best to have both.
Good post and I agree with you. It really comes down to the individual LEO. Those that have had their assess kicked or almost been killed during a lethal force situation , will either step up their training or quit. Those officers not been through this are always the ones who say " I have been on the force for 20 years and never pulled my gun". Yeah, well , I sure want you as backup , especially during a active shooter event or a biker bar fight.
There were a few females in the class, and that was the only one I remember going straight fetal within the first minute. The others still got worked for the most part, but they put up a better fight.
I learned early on in BJJ/wrestling that I could take a solid nut shot and virtually shrug it off, as long as we kept rolling. It was when my partner would immediately stop, ‘sorry bro, are you ok?’
Well, I was. Now we stopped and I can feel it, so no. I’m not okay.
I’ve thrown that tidbit out there with any women I hear talking self defense and always default to the nut shot. Might work, might not. I know from experience I can roll with it and keep going, I would wager that a lot of guys can.
Ive taken a couple eye pokes but I’ve never been on the receiving end of a full force attack on my eyeball.
But yes, rolling will get you very used to brushing off rough contact and continuing to work. I’m up to three black eyes from training, which are always fun to rock at a white collar day job. Plenty of nut shots, a few knees have found my head and everything else in the bag of fun you get when you train.
I do not like when people stop and ask if I am alright after they spaz out and elbow me in the face or something. Just keep going. Tap if you’re done same rules as always.
Since @Chris_Colucci brought it up, here’s my personal favorite Bas Rutten video, set to one of my favorite Motorhead songs. I’ve sometimes trained jits with palm strikes, but never Bas Rutten palm strikes.
Here’s my second favorite Bas Rutten video, which is a well-edited celebration of bouncer violence.
I can attest to the nut shot effectiveness, or lack thereof. In rolling, it happens. Just the other day I got 2 hits to the groin in the same roll and just carried on. I also got a heel to the nose and could have carried on, but figured it was rude to bleed all over my training partner haha
There are guys out there who will pay to get kicked in the balls. I don’t think there has ever been anyone out there who paid to get full-on eye gouged…
Learning to fight takes time, discipline, and effort – things that come from within, rather than things that can be mandated through a syllabus. Learning to defend yourself with your hands, like learning to drive or shoot, means repetition, analysis, adjustment, and trying again. If you approach the process expecting to become a expert in a matter of weeks, the problem isn’t the program … it’s you.
Thought for the day (2): I have done a lot of take downs in my life: all manner of buildings, rooms, vehicles, aircraft and two large cargo ships, but, nothing as cool as this. I know where I would liked to have been on June 18.
Boatguy: He has to be wearing some type of flotation device, but, I don’t recognize it. Any thoughts? Is it the pack he is wearing?
You can use whatever weight you want to, but, I use two 20 lb. bells because this closely simulates carrying two ammo cans. There is a county park near me with an Olympic track around a football field. Standard 6 quarter mile loops. Grab the two kettle bells and start walking. Walk as far as you can until your grip gives out, set them down flex those cramps out and start again. I did 6 laps, did not do it for time, total 1.5. Miles.
Note: do not do this within 48 hours our range qualification. You finger dexterity will be fried for sure.
Skill work:
Kettle Bell Grenades: Great focus and core drill.
You will need a used tire and an 8 to 10 pound kettle bell. In fact, everyone needs a used tire. They can be bought cheap and most retail tire places will actually give you one. Lots of things you can do with tires.
You will need a safe place, like an abandoned city lot, a rural pasture, a dirt embankment or in my case, the earth retaining wall behind the gym. Place the tire against a safe place, back off about 10 yards to start and use an overhand (old fashion grenade throw) and try to throw the kettle bell into the center of the tire. Now, 8 to 10 pound bells don’t sound like much, but, believe me by the time you make a dozen throws, you will feel it. Next switch to under hand throws, which are much more accurate for me, then start going down on one knee (like behind a mud wall) and tossing the bell over your head. Going down on both knees will let you know how strong you core is. Try right and left hand throws, finish up by increasing the distance and throw it as far as you can, will really push your body mechanics to the max. Around 75 throws yesterday.
Note: If you have a lawn, don’t do this, that bell will tear the hell out of your grass. Also, don’t do this in the public eye, explaining to the local LEO’s you are practicing grenade throws is not a wise idea.
