Would you want to go into combat on D-Day? I’m just asking since you seem like you to want to be drafted.
You obviously don’t know who you are talking to.
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I mean I’m behind a screen so I don’t know who any of you are.
I’m pretty sure this life lesson has been taught to you before but, in general, it’s best not to behave as if you were safely behind a screen. The more you treat online conversations the same as you’d treat IRL face-to-face conversations, the better for everyone.
In this case, we have an 18-year old high school graduate lecturing a guy who’s worked in law enforcement, SWAT, and military for, literally, longer than the teen has been alive.
This statement is appropriate for The Stupid Thread.
Dude, c’mon. If you’re going to dip your toes into PWI waters, that kind of intellectual laziness won’t go very far.
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wouldn’t enforcing military service be an example of an authoritarian action mandated by the federal government? Military drafts exist in countries like Isreal wherein looming war and an extensive omnipresent threat of terrorism grips society, this kind of threat isn’t present in America today. What’s more, the majority of HS graduates wouldn’t meet the militaries criteria for enlistment.
- need to be physically fit
- can’t be on any medication
- no prior history of any kind of mental illness
- no neurodevelopment disorders
- no prior history of alcohol/drug intake (this would probably include tobacco now as the product is restricted to 21+)
etc etc, now we’ve weeded out like 90%+ of HS graduates… unless you decide to lie on your application. Many over here lie and get away with it, so I suppose that is an option. Military pays HS graduates like 50k/yr!
Granted I wouldn’t be against mandating some sort of public service (first aid, volunteer firefighter etc). Had I met the criteria to enlist for the military I actually would’ve done it here on my gap year. I looked into it, but my mental health record + having autism automatically disqualifies me.
To note, there is a platform of post HS graduate enlistment for military service in Aus that I BELIEVE exempts you from enlistment on the front lines in the event some form of conflict does break out between Aus/another country. Military service doesn’t equate to infantry, navy etc. There are a LOT of non-combative roles one can take on.
Darn maybe I should’ve went into the military for benefits
I’m in Australia, might be different for America.
But yes, there are benefits to enlistment in the US. Paid college tuition, decent pay, health/dental care in a country (USA) where universal healthcare doesn’t really exist, you may get to travel for free
You’ll also be taught decent work ethic, discipline of which can carry over to positively towards other aspects of life. As specified prior, you don’t have to fight on the front lines.
There are certain aspects of the military I don’t quite agree with, but that’s not a topic for this forum. Some simply aren’t cut out for the paradigm military service envelops you in.
This shouldn’t be an excuse to behave badly. The penchant people have towards talking indiscriminate smack behind a screen that invokes a veiled sense of security irks me. It is one of my primary criticisms of social media/forums and the likes.
Treat people the way you’d want to be treated… screen or no screen morally competent people deserve to be treated with respect.
Some ought to spend some time in Isreal, preferably on the border between Jerusalem and the West Bank.
Perhaps those virtue signalling and railing about impoverished communities ought to perform some community service within these regions. Construction, first aid etc… get up and volunteer instead of running your mouth about socialism and systemic discrimination in between bong rips and discussions over the benefits of marxism.
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I apologize for my behavior
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Well-done. Self-reflection is not always common in PWI, where people like to present themselves as experts on everything and find a way to explain things away whenever they find themselves off-the-mark. I always like to see people own a mistake.
On the subject of accountability, I was just as impressed with how Shacarri Richardson handled the marijuana suspension from the Olympics as I was with her athletic performance. She didn’t make excuses or complain about the policy, she owned her behavior completely. I don’t agree with the suspension, especially considering there’s currently a man who will compete in women’s weightlifting, but it gives me hope for young people in general.
The internet actually works great when we speak freely using the same kind of language you’d use at a social gathering among friends and family. PWI assumes those friends and family can handle a serious discussion about serious topics where there will be strong disagreement.
Unfortunately, not everyone can.
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In the strictest sense, I suppose so. But this is why I think the military and/or public service option is better:
- Generates a common experience that forces people of different segments to actually partake in the national upkeep effort and comingle with parts of society that they might otherwise never encounter
- More inclusive experience than a pure conscription (no medical or conscientious outs provided)
- Provides a natural job entry point for those in need of one and provides the upper crust with a much-needed dose of reality
- More educated voting base: regardless of whether you spend your time with spend your time with the DOD, the IRS, or the National Park Service, you’re going to know more about how (a part) of the country works than if you didn’t
I would gladly accept the involuntary nature of such a program in exchange for the national uplift I think it would provide
I always had an affinity for Robert Heinlein’s vision of society in Starship Troopers. Everyone in the society has baseline rights, but you have to earn the right to vote through civic service. He may have specified military service in the book but it’s been almost 30 years since I read it. I do recall that the movie adaptation had some great topless shower scenes that I enthusiastically approved of, despite not being in the book at all.
As long as the path to full citizenship is open to everyone who can show up and volunteer no matter their background, ability, or capacity, I don’t see a basic problem with the idea.
We’re a republic, not a democracy.
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In some ways, compulsory service is more democratic as it puts the burden of national defense on everyone regardless of their social status.
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Compulsory would indeed be more democratic, but “more democratic” doesn’t automatically mean there will be a better outcome.
Especially not over the long term.
I generally prefer that people self-select for all of the most serious roles in our society, like part-time neighborhood dive bar bouncing. Of course, it’s entirely possible that my Heinlein-esque society of good-intentioned civic volunteers gets hijacked by monied interests who somehow subvert my idealized process of vetting the voting population while also giving them cutting-edge robot space suits to fight insectoid space invaders.
Another example of how the crazy Left governs - by deciding to not govern. Unless it’s to feather their own bed or grasp more power.
Really?? Not only does the mechanism already exist in the form of the USPS like dcb said, but Bibles??
Bibles.
From one of the most openly observant Christian politicians in recent memory. (Yes I realize anything with politicians is unlikely to be face value, but come on).
Bibles.
Yeah this is complete and utter CRAP. Whoever they have writing needs to step out into the real fucking world for a few years. That’s ridiculous.
I agree. No foresight. I mean beyond the general lack of foresight that most young people have at the population level.
If we look at ancient Rome, when it was republic they had conscription, really a levy system, at first and it was limited to certain people (pretty much the wealthier classes but gradually it applied to most citizens except the poorest). Eventually, any citizen could volunteer and the number of volunteers serving was greater than those conscripted. Once Rome became an imperial state, the army became a professional full time force and conscription was abandoned for the most part. Under all those different circumstances the army was successful and served the needs of Rome at the different stages of its growth.
My point is that conscription worked because there was a sense of civic duty present. Joining the army was seen as a duty and honor, and that privilege at first fell upon the wealthier classes. When all citizens could volunteer, the poor probably saw the benefits of military service as a way to get out of poverty as well as gain some sense of status and feel like proper citizens. Right now we have a volunteer, full time professional force and some within it choose to make a career out of it. Of course, we also have a reserve force of part time professionals. If we were to have compulsory service in addition to volunteer service, we would need to look back in time, and not only as far as the ancient Greeks and Romans, but US history as well, and see that IMO at least, a sense of civic duty has to come before compulsory service rather than relying on compulsory service to create a sense of civic duty. Many Americans lined up to join the military when WW2 broke out.
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I actually agree. I think at least going through Basic and then spending a few months taking orders would be essential. I wouldn’t favor a mandated multiple year stint, but I think the concept is sound.
Perhaps as Z said maybe allow the substitution of military time with like a year of community service. REAL community service, like 20+ hours a week of actual physical work.
It is important that EVERYONE take responsibility for both national security and civil rights regardless of status rather than putting responsibility for safe guards entirely at someone else’s door. I don’t feel like it needs to be - or should be - a long time mandated. But there has to be some investment.
I do think exposure to situations, people, and social norms outside of one’s comfortable “bubble” is critical for growth and also limiting the more ridiculous polarization of society we seem to be dealing with.
Shit happens to everyone dude. I made a lot of mistakes early on, and I’ll probably make a lot more in general as I go through life. PWI definitely gets more hectic than the other forums but good on you for owning it. Nothing wrong with that.
This is a tough question but a good one. IMHO it’s a bit of a chicken and egg thing. I’m honestly not sure which way it goes, because I can see both sides making sense. On one hand you were correct, and on the other…well, as far as most successful fitness journeys go usually the motivation comes AFTER the habit/discipline. In other words you have to suffer through hating going to the gym before you begin to like it. I think it’s also possible with something like national service vs sense of duty.
Republicans have literally done exactly this before too. I’m fairly sure this was over a bill that was considered a form of voter suppression.