Gotta hit rock-bottom before you will commit to making real change… maybe the same will apply here.
You’re very cavalier with the lives of people you don’t know who live in neighborhoods you don’t live in.
Violent crime was half of what it was in the 90’s. Half. Meanwhile 9 unarmed black men were killed by police officers last year. All 9 need to be investigated by outside authorities, and charges need to be brought where appropriate. But you’re willing to throw away tens of thousands of lives over that? I guess it’s ok with you because you don’t live there, and you don’t know those people. So full speed ahead with the social experiments!
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I think it would be wrong to force these policy “experiments” on people without their support, but if they vote for these policies and understand the possible implications, then go for it.
The ghetto has been rock bottom for years. It didn’t start the day George Floyd was killed.
And more unarmed white men were killed by police.
The people have been asking for more cops, for years. Defund the police is a middle class, elitist idea.
UG up there is saying violent crime is down 50%, so it certainly isnt at rock bottom right now.
If the affected areas are against the policies that affect them, i certainly hope their voice is heard loud and clear.
Look at literacy and poverty rates. The police deal with criminals; these politicians and activists should deal with poverty. They just fear having to answer certain questions and facing certain truths.
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There is only so much money to go around. We have a good idea of what the communities would look like with even more police funding and slashed social services… It would be safer, but without any future. Slashing police and directing funding to social services and education might make it more dangerous in the short term, but might reap long term benefits that turn into safer communities.
I agree with and practice the bootstraps line of thinking in my personal life, but i just don’t think its applicable to society as a whole… especially the parts where underachievement and poverty are the only thing they know. They need help, and a lot of it… waiting for them to make the change will have you waiting forever. I think youre right that it does depend on the community members actually taking responsibility and changing… but they arent going to make those changes on their own or without a lot more help.
It is exemplary of privilege. If your life has been so good up to this point that you think this is a good idea, then you have lived a charmed life.
Like the vegan Lilly white Chaz inhabitants. It’s all good till the opportunists and thugs show up, heads start getting cracked and people get shot.
THEN it’s “Call the fucking cops! We need an ambulance!”
Well, EMT don’t go to active crime scenes without police escorts, or even entire neighborhoods in some places.
The “defund” policies i have seen mostly deal with limiting the scope of police work to the “necessary” stuff. It would reduce traffic cops and rely on cameras , for example, fund social workers to deal with known homeless problem areas and drug/alcohol problems… eg instead of send 2 cars and 4 cops to deal with a drunk guy, only 2 cops and 2 social workers get sent. Instead of stop-and-frisk, its stop-and-counsel.
The local PD would have significant input on where the cuts in budget would come from… and just like any other bloated government agency there is likely a ton of fat that could be cut before performance starts to suffer. Its extremely regionally specific, but Ive seen the budgets and salaries of PDs and FDs in a couple of states and the numbers were mind blowing. Its crazy how much some get paid, and then in another state they make literally pennies on the dollar. Hardcore budget reviews wouldnt be the worst thing in the world IMO.
We’ve seen what happened at the CHAZ/CHOP. “The CHOP has become lawless and brutal,” said Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best, who said two shooting deaths, robberies, assaults and countless property crimes had occurred in the area.
Then there was the attempt at the “Peace Park” at the burned down Wendy’s in ATL until an 8 year old girl was killed. For weeks, there were multiple reports of threats — and at least one beating — against people approaching the site in the days leading up to the fatal shooting of Secoriea Turner
Call me crazy but maybe, just maybe it would be possible to hold the few bad cops that exist accountable for their actions. Maybe we could even root them out in the selection process or fire them at the first or second sign that they’re assholes. Wholesale change is not needed.
CHOP turned into a shit show because all the hoodlums from surrounding areas would come into the small area at night and cause trouble. None of them lived there, or even near there… that wasnt home for them and they didnt know any residents. But they all concentrated into that small area each night JUST to cause problems.
Also, that was with no cops at all. Different from a reduced PD.
I dont think the CHOP or that Wendys deal is a fair representation of defunding police policies… which just means reducing funding and reallocating the money toward social programs with longterm generational goalposts in mind.
Which already exist and we see the lack of results.
It will go to social emotional learning, not education. All of the latest reforms don’t even acknowledge literacy.
They need to be taught how to pull themselves up, not get pulled up because everyone has to pull themselves up. Privilege, if it exists, doesn’t give you anything; you still have to work.
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Regardless of how one feels about the deaths of Floyd and Rayshard Brooks, they were both violent sociopaths. Have some people like that for neighbors and you’ll change your thinking about police.
Yes, hoodlums travel. Otherwise nobody would give a shit. I realize that to some “defund” means to reduce or not increase funding. It’s a really shitty way of putting it and it won’t help much in upcoming elections. But there are some people who really do want to abolish the police.
In order to turn the streets over to the hoodlums though you don’t have to do defund, or abolish the police. You just have to cut their nuts off and scare the shit out of them which is what’s going on now. Take a look at the crime stats lately and see how well that’s working.
They don’t have those things in mind. They don’t have the courage to take that step. They already get lots of money and have accomplished nothing. Money is not the problem but an obsession with the idea of fairness.
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You want to know a great way to start a fight?
Make a clumsy, obnoxious grab at somebody’s wallet.
You know what this whole “defund the police” looks like?
A clumsy and obnoxious grab at law enforcements wallet.
Good luck. Not that I disagree with better approaches to mental health and hygiene, how duties are allocated, and likely many other things this “movement” may try to usurp, but the opening argument (read "nationwide honkey bratfest/tantrum) was ridiculously counterproductive.
It’s virtually irretrevable at this point. Law enforcement is a necessary and deeply established institution. It doesn’t change quickly or really much at all, even from the top down, let alone from the outside in. And especially not after the people trying to change it firmly re established its necessity.
Id argue that has more to do the climate of society right now, than anything to do with Police.
The abolish police people are the fringes… they make great headlines, but thats about it. I dont put much stock in that BS. They’re stupid.
Maybe neutering the police isnt such a bad thing. If they cant rely on immediate and overwhelming force, they will be forced to rely on tact more which would lend itself to a different kind of personality for an LEO.
I dont think it was counterproductive. It made a splash, it grabbed headlines, it got all of these policies in the news and made the public discuss them.
It might have pissed off the cops… but thats not who they had to convince. They had to convince the voting public. And they dont have to convince them to implement everything, just the moderate portions of the policy platform and it will be a big win.
What does that even mean? Overwhelming force will actually prevent violence.
Someone who will put his own safety first, until overwhelming force arrives.
Police in Chicago are not doing as much policing these days which is most of the problem. I don’t really agree that it’s the current climate other than the fact that with the police less visible and doing less the criminals are roaming free. If it keeps up, watch the flight from the cities. Many that can leave and commute from farther out will do so. Some people don’t want to live in Mogadishu, IL or Beirut, NY. With a dwindling tax base, there will be lots of defunding.
I know the abolish police looneys are on the fringe. I have no worries at all about my county abolishing or even cutting police funding. Defund the police is terrible messaging though and will drive some people away from some of the good that may otherwise come from the current climate.