Does showing a movie romanticizing the nazi era of germany’s past and showing them treating jews nicely produce any harm? As long as the plot is good?
I think its a stretch to say the movie normalizes racism or teaches it, especially because of the time period that it was made where cultural norms were different and had different meanings. But, IMO, that makes for a perfect opportunity to just put in a short epilogue explaining the culture of both when the story takes place, and also the culture of when the movie was produced.
Movies are fine. Books are fine. They don’t need to be banned, burned or explained by a woke person from 2020.
You can write a book about Jew-loving space Nazis taking over the solar system to enslave the gays, and if any harm comes from it, it will not be your fault.
Pretty sure that darn near every episode of Law & Order SVU has a PC disclaimer at the beginning… and its been that way for a long while. This isnt a new concept, and seems pretty innocuous.
I tend to agree in concept. I assume you are also against parental discretion warnings on TV shows, movie ratings, etc? those are actaully enforced by governmental agencies. This is a voluntary move by a private company only applicable to their own movie viewing platform.
It’s insidious. How much intelligence does one have to lack to not understand that a movie portraying a specific period of time might reflect the values and norms of the time and that it’s too fucking bad if you’re offended by history. Maybe if people educated themselves just a little about history they’d realize this.
No, a rating system seems entirely sensible to me. I don’t particularly mind the parental warnings either, because they don’t interfere with the media consumption. It is there for parents to help them decide if they want to buy their kid that 2 Live Crew tape.
I do not share the concern that there is any potential for harmful behavior to materialize from viewing Gone With The Wind. I think people should watch it. Birth of a Nation was shown to me in a high school film class and we discussed it afterwards, all without the benefit of a woke person from 2020 there to woke-splain it to us.
None of us from that 1997 classroom have gone on to form Klan chapters.
Its not depicting history, though. A fictional movie romanticizing the nazi era of germany and showing jews well treated isnt history, even if it is based loosely around historical events.
Being offended by history is stupid, agreed. But being offended by a revisionist version of history romanticizing people who committed atrocities, and depicting slaves as happy, healthy and well treated is easy to see.
When did liberals stop being the party of “too fucking bad if my art offends you”?
Of course it would have. We did that with other controversial films we were expected to watch on our own and report back with our own thoughts on, and we were even free to watch and report on whatever films we wanted to for some assignments.
Thank goodness my mind was not coddled with the notion that I’m too impressionable to think critically. Thank goodness nobody saw the need to save me from the possibility that I was too stupid to think for myself.
We owe that to the next generation, but obviously not everyone agrees with me. HBO putting whatever they do to woke-splain the movie isn’t the end of Western Civilization, it is just a sign of changing times and a reflection of how little we think of each other. They’re literally calling a work of fictional film too dangerous to be viewed without the benefit of someone from 2020 to explain it for the audience.
Have you seen america lately? You honestly think the majority of us actually make a habit of thinking critically? I don’t.
I think its a good thing for art or movies showing revisionist versions of history to have a quick summary of the the actual history. Millions only get their news from social media, or entertainment news shows. Its not much of a stretch (IMO) to think that many folks learn history from fictional movies too.
I think people are perfectly capable of deciding for themselves what their priorities are, acting accordingly and doing so in a way that doesn’t bother their neighbors. If that wasn’t the case, we’d have a lot bigger problems than we do right now.
The problem with the “good thing” as you see it, is that you aren’t getting what you’re describing. You never will. In this case, you’re getting HBO’s take on it. Maybe that is a good, accurate take, maybe it is a heaping dose of wokeness that’s completely disconnected from reality.
I’m saying that it isn’t necessary at all, and simply presenting the art on its own would be better, in my opinion. It is one thing to have art explained by the artist who made it, it is another thing to have art explained by a deeply biased political hack 80 years after the art was made.
Especially when the justification centers around avoiding harm caused by art.
We don’t, no. But we should. And I think we should be encouraged to, even if many of us won’t. That’s their own fault.
I agree with this. People can choose or not choose to do so, but that’s on them.
I can see both sides of this issue. It’s a voluntary choice as well, so fine. TCM does epilogues on basically all of their movies as well. However I have never been a believer in candy coating things for the easily offended, and frankly I do feel some of what we are seeing right now is getting silly.
It seems like the people capable of thinking critically would do so about the epilogue or explanation anyways, and the people who cannot think critically would at least be able to see the explanation. So its a net neutral for folks who can think critically, and the only folks affected are the idiots- they either believe the fiction of the movie is real, or they believe the epilogue is the truth.
I guess it comes down to if the warning/epilogue has a message that is more dangerous if believed 100%, than the message of the art. In this particular instance, we havent seen HBOs epilogue message, but i bet its better than the someone taking Gone With The Wind as literal history.
I suppose you’re right. Not all of us ran like rabbits from the Democrat party to become conservatives in our 30’s.
I hear you, but why stop with Gone With The Wind?
Now that we’ve cleared up what you think is beneficial to help someone understand that piece of art, what about other works of art?
Do you think it would be helpful to have a woke 2020 perspective explain Chicago Drill Rap? Do you think it could be beneficial to have a discussion about the violence, misogyny and hatred expressed by the artists in that genre? What do you think, maybe a one minute discussion emphasizing non-violent conflict resolution and career alternatives to criminal activities?
I mean, the people who are going to act out what’s depicted in the lyrics will probably do it anyway, why not try to help the impressionable fools who might be swayed by this artist’s art?
What about the Rolling Stones song, Brown Sugar? Should we have a discussion around the racist lyric professing to know how a black girl should taste?
Should Blazing Saddles be accompanied by a discussion as well?
It certainly wasn’t a documentary so I don’t completely buy your assertion that it was revisionist history. Is it possible that people saw the world in the way the movie portrays it even if people now think they were wrong for seeing it that way?
Is the version of history written by the victors always the only one?
Were there no slaves treated well in the entire history of American slavery? Most people today are content to be slaves to their jobs, their creditors, their government, their drugs, etc. so I’ll bet there were some that might have been content.
I get where you are coming from. In my mind, i would limit it to situations where history or historical context is involved in the art, and it would only be there if the publisher of said art wanted it there. Just a quick rundown of historical facts, or description of accurate history.
I think there is a very long way down an icy slope from what HBO is doing, to what you are thinking could happen.
Well for one you won’t see woke liberals being critical in this way of any art produced by anyone besides white people, so you’re correct that my situation is unlikely.
I don’t believe that the intent of these kind of disclaimers/discussions/whatever you want to call them is to prevent harm coming from the actions of impressionable people who would be racist and hurtful to others, if not for the woke-splaining. It is such a stretch to imagine such a thing ever happening, and if that’s really someone’s concern, why start with Gone With The Wind?
This is about appeasing a mob. Color me skeptical, but whatever historical context they’re likely to provide will only be given if it advances that narrative that America was and continues to be an irredeemably racist place. This is about using one of the greatest American achievements in film to prop up that narrative and, most importantly, to make sure that HBO appeases the woke mob.
I’m expecting a lot more mob appeasement behavior.