Tazering them in that situation is probably the best course of action - not ideal but safer for the Officers.
The fact that he’s autistic would make the situation worse honestly.
I will agree with this, having worked with a group of autistic children who were very prone to violence (that being the main reason they were in the facility I worked in) I will whole heartedly agree with this.
I agree, autistic people, myself included, are more prone to rash decisions because things affect them differently. Like if you went to hug a autistic person they would be more likely to lash out rather than a neuro-typical.
Anecdote time, I have two sisters one of whom is Autistic. I’d say growing up 95% of the times one of them hit me it was the Autistic one.
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That part is just as stupid imo.
To everyone else, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I can’t imagine a scenario where I wouldn’t try to disarm a child before tasing them. It seems completely absurd to me.
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There may be a lot of scenarios where a taser is not justified, but let’s consider the extreme case.
The 95th percentile height and weight 9.5 year old is 95lbs and 4’11". So not full grown but still big enough to be an issue. He might be wildly and irrationally swinging the knife around. Striking the kid is potentially more dangerous than using a taser. Trying to grapple with him has a high chance of someone getting cut.
I think this is the sort of thing were you have to see it for yourself and go with your gut. It’s hard to second guess a decision like that without even seeing the kid, the knife, or what he was doing.
What I think you are missing is that the manhandling subduing method is far from risk free. Wrestling with someone wielding knives is a great way for either party to get impaled or severely cut. People die that way too, only now the risk is to officers and child. Tasing seems pretty appropriate and low risk to me.
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Well, a lot of these comments are surprising to me especially from the more libertarian leaning folks here.
Not really surprising. If you bring force to bare against a cop you get force in return. Simple life lesson. If you call the cops on your kid don’t complain when they use force to solve the problem.
That’s the whole point of police, to use force to enforce laws. We are a nation of laws, but it takes guns to back them up.
What would you want the police to do instead? I can’t see a scenario safer than the taser for all parties involved.
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He didn’t “bring force” against anyone. He was just an upset kid. Ya’ll are acting like he was threatening a class of kids or something.
For an autistic kid…[quote=“hugh_gilly, post:271, topic:219703”]
What would you want the police to do instead?
[/quote]
I would have liked the two grown ass men trained as police officers to have just disarmed the 9-year-old prepubescent child.
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@Frank_C You are a grown ass man trained as a Police Officer, what would you do?
Took me a while to catch up on the thread. The title of this forum is appropriate. I haven’t read all of the comments because, quite frankly, I don’t care. There’s nothing more irritating than people who have never spent a minute in an officer’s shoes telling us how we should do our job. The rest of the working world doesn’t have to put up with unqualified people telling them how they screwed up (from their computer, in the comfort of their home, after the fact). I’m sure there are people who share their opinions around the office but it doesn’t change anything for you at work.
The sad reality is that all of the publicity on incidents like this are changing how I do my job. Public perception is now controlling law enforcement. It’s racist and oppressive to stop these young men in their neighborhood’s. Well if you want to see how that’s turned out then take a look at Chicago and Detroit. Officers have adopted the mentality of “It’s not worth the effort to go out and self-initiate work. It’s not worth getting sued or fired.” So what happens? Officers become reactive and work cases after the fact instead of trying to catch the criminals beforehand.
I could go on for quite a long time about how screwed up our society is, but I’ll address the question that brought me here.
The taser is actually one of the best tools for situations like this. Here’s the facts:
- 9 year old with two knives
- talking has failed
- 9 year old is or has threatened his mother, officers, or himself (remember police didn’t just randomly show up at his house or the scene; they were called)
- since talking has failed, there are only two choices left–use force to control him or leave
- leaving isn’t an option because his mom is in danger and society believes it’s the police’s job to protect people even from themselves.
- so we’re back to using force…it’s inevitable.
And here are the possible outcomes of using force:
- someone get stabbed or cut
- assuming the 9 year old flails wildly when he’s grabbed, he will probably be forced to the ground–either slammed or he’ll fall with at least one grown man on top of him to help drive him into the ground
- while he’s flailing the officers are likely to get hit or kicked and possibly injured
- to restrain someone officers always try to get them face down so they can pin them to the ground and control their body and arms. Once they’re on the ground their arms have to be pulled behind their back for handcuffing. During the struggle to get this accomplished it’s possible to break someone’s arm or dislocate the shoulder.
I see people are questioning the Taser. The only injury caused by the Taser is whatever happens during the fall. It’s called a secondary injury. Assuming this kid was in his home he fell on carpet, hardwood, or tile. The last two might hurt but not as bad as hitting the same surface with a grown man on top of you. If you have a good environment (house/yard) and a stationary target then the Taser is actually the best option. It causes neuromuscular inhibition–it forces your muscles to contract (harder than you can do on your own) and you lose control of your body (at least the part that’s hit). If you get someone in the back with a spread of about 12 inches between the probes then they will be unable to move while the current is running (except the small number of people who don’t respond to it).
So, what’s the plan in this situation? Communicate to your partner what you’re about to do. Get a good shot. Pop the little S.O.B. and try to grab him before he hits the ground. We’re trained to get them under control before the 5 second ride is over. Tasing them, watching them fall, and letting the 5 seconds run out without jumping on them and cuffing them is useless because they will just get right back up.
It’s nice that people think cops are like Chuck Norris and can take care of any situation with cowboy boots and a roundhouse kick but it’s not reality. We’re regular people. We have a little more training than the average person but it’s not much. We’re not black belt ninjas, MMA pros, golden gloves boxers, or Navy SEALS. We can’t shoot the knife out of someone’s hand from 20 feet while running. That shit isn’t real. Most gun nuts are probably better shots than us because after dealing with everyone else’s shit all day we don’t have the energy to go to the range. We’d rather come home, see the family, and decompress like everyone else in the world. That’s the same reason you see a lot of unfit cops. The job is draining and it takes some extra effort to take care of yourself after your work day.
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-According to the story: “The deputies attempted to engage with the boy and attempted to put space between themselves and him in order to try de-escalation tactics, DeWees said. Despite trying to get more space, the boy kept coming at the deputies, he said.”
-I can see nothing in the incident with which to disagree, from a libertarian perspective. A parent, presumably, called to ask for assistance dealing with her child. The child threatened officers and his parent with a knife and came after them. Minimal force was used to subdue the child.
Thank you for that response.
I appreciate the response. Does the fact that the kid is autistic change anything in your opinion?
I can’t get past the fact that this is just a 9-year-old child. I can’t image a scenario where I couldn’t control a child that age, especially with another adult helping.
I cannot respond for Jmaier, obviously, but having worked with other adults in a home for 9-12 year old autistic kids, I can say without a doubt if one of them had a knife I would have taken some stitches, they respond so, so differently than an average youth to de-escalation techniques and they dislike most (if not all) physical touches or physical redirection, I was trained in physical management (physical takedowns) for youth and on most occasions when we had an autistic child “under control” they were attempting to self-harm (slamming their head off of the ground) because the weight and feel of being physically touched was absolutely overwhelming for them.
As an officer who is most likely trained to deal with the average youth/person then I can only imagine the thought process at watching most of your trained de-escalation techniques send this kid into a flying rage simply because you said a certain word, or asked a certain question, or were standing in the wrong spot…only you don’t know it. Hell, I was told exactly what to expect and still caught a few in the teeth (no lie, boy was I surprised, ha)
It was an intense line of work, and I am in no way advocating for any one use over the other as far as take downs, simply adding some of my anecdotal evidence after a few years working directly with kiddos like that.
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Interesting.
Well, maybe my initial reaction was wrong (see @hugh_gilly sometimes opinions change). Probably because I think our police force tends to rely too heavily upon and too quickly on tools like a taser, but I see the points you all have made.
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