The market is swooning over Obama! So much so it may just collapse! And the media, who acted as if Bush was responsible for every dip, seems to see no connection between Obama’s anti-growth policies and the fact that markets are in free-fall.
Perhaps investors are aware of the fact that Obama’s own economic advisors were against this type of plan before they were bought off with jobs in the ‘historic’ Obama kingdom.
This destruction of wealth, compounded by the real estate collapse, is an indicator that we are entering a depression. All we need now is a terrorist attack. If I were a leader of al-Qaeda, I’d attack ASAP.
Obama has named 3 tax cheats and an incompetent Treasury Secretary. Add in this abortion of a stimulus plan, and I can see a possible Great Depression.
Buy guns, buy food.
I have guns. I can get food.
Bush pardoned a bunch of tax cheats just before he left office to make matters worse.
shit could get rougher, but the sky is not falling. Relax, get over it.
Economic mismanagement takes years to play out. Your economy will be stuffed for years, probably 7 at least, thanks to Bush.
The fact that you don’t understand that is why democracy doesn’t work - the majority of people are too stupid and ignorant to understand how things work, so they vote on their pathetic understanding of things.
In 4 years when things are still not fixed are you going to vote in someone else? And then as things start coming good are you going to give the new guy credit? Probably, it is the kind of stupid thing that goes on all the time.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Economic mismanagement takes years to play out. Your economy will be stuffed for years, probably 7 at least, thanks to Bush.
The fact that you don’t understand that is why democracy doesn’t work - the majority of people are too stupid and ignorant to understand how things work, so they vote on their pathetic understanding of things.
In 4 years when things are still not fixed are you going to vote in someone else? And then as things start coming good are you going to give the new guy credit? Probably, it is the kind of stupid thing that goes on all the time.[/quote]
I don’t know who this is direced at, an individual or the U.S., in general. In any event, before you call anyone else stupid, you need to try and understand that the U.S. markets (and markets world-wide, for that matter) react to things like presidential press conferences and financial plans laid out (or not laid out, as it were) by the Treasury Secretary. Markets have reacted favorably or unfavorably to elections, debates, even presidential polls for that matter. Markets, especially those (hopefully) close to a bottom (around 8,000 in the U.S.) are highly influenced by consumer confidence in the president and his policies and private sector confidence in pro-growth, pro-business policy from Washington. Thus far, the markets have rejected Obama and his ideas. We had the largest inauguration day stock dive in U.S. history. Then the markets soundly rejected his bailout plan.
You also must try and understand the U.S. media. I’ve seen headlines on CNN money over the past year stating things like ‘Stocks Tank on Bush’ and ‘Stocks Rise on Obama’. We’ll hear for the next eight years (and Obama will get eight with the media in his hip-pocket) how the president can only do so much when it comes to the economy (unless it’s good and a democrat is in office - ala Clinton and the Tech Boom). And we just heard for eight years that Bush was wrecking the economy (as we pretend that 9/11 never happened) and destroying markets.
Still and all, it’s an intersting time. Three weeks ago I could not forsee the democrats losing any ground in Washington, at least not in the near future. It’s taken them three weeks of running the show to lose 10 points in opinion/popularity polls and now I’d wager they’ll lose seats (and control) of Congress in the mid-term elections.
And it’s not that Americans are pissed that Obama has not fixed the economy in three weeks, they are pissed because most economists - even those on Obama’s payroll - have said “stimulus” packages do not work. And we’ve watched as they’ve eliminated or reduced provisions in the bill for tax rebates for individuals and families, aid to states, etc., while leaving in provisions for give-aways to ACORN and other pork spending (even though we are not supposed to call it pork because Obama says it’s not pork or earmarks or anything that sounds bad or partisan or not wonderful and fantastic in the most hopeful way!).
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Economic mismanagement takes years to play out. Your economy will be stuffed for years, probably 7 at least, thanks to Bush.
The fact that you don’t understand that is why democracy doesn’t work - the majority of people are too stupid and ignorant to understand how things work, so they vote on their pathetic understanding of things.
In 4 years when things are still not fixed are you going to vote in someone else? And then as things start coming good are you going to give the new guy credit? Probably, it is the kind of stupid thing that goes on all the time.[/quote]
Oh. Tell me how it’s “thanks to Bush”? And don’t say the war. This is not a crisis of spending (as we’ve seen by the spending contained in the “stimulus”). Most agree that this stems from the credit crisis and the housing markets. Tell me how that’s “thanks to Bush”. And don’t cut and past from the Daiy KOS.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Economic mismanagement takes years to play out. Your economy will be stuffed for years, probably 7 at least, thanks to Bush.
The fact that you don’t understand that is why democracy doesn’t work - the majority of people are too stupid and ignorant to understand how things work, so they vote on their pathetic understanding of things.
In 4 years when things are still not fixed are you going to vote in someone else? And then as things start coming good are you going to give the new guy credit? Probably, it is the kind of stupid thing that goes on all the time.[/quote]
So are you saying that Clinton didn’t create the booming 90’s and that it was Reagan who started it? Interesting.
I understand the markets far more than you realise. And here I see you making the common error 95% of people make thinking that market down = bad response, completely missing the fact that there is down, and there is FURTHER down. Or to put it simply, it is not simply up is good down is bad. It is down, it could be far further down.
ProwlCat came out with the thread with a lot of ! and harsh comments attacking Obama. What did you expect - instant transformation of the economy? Were you just waiting in the wings to attack the new administration? Do you have unbridled loyalty to Bush? Do you have some vested interested in a Bush admin? either for financial gain or some bizarre moralistic loyalty? “don’t say the war” - the cry of the Bush supporter who is willing to overlook EVERYTHING in their support. WTF?
I hate the 2 party system and I hate the ignorant unbridled support people have for one or the other. People identify with one party or the other and as part of their identity they defend it to the bitter end. That is one stupid way to shape a country.
People should vote on issues, individual issues, one issue, one person, one vote. If that person actually understands the issues.
but that is one helluva dream.
Instead we have one person, two parties, a thousand issues, one vote - great. And no guarantee they do what they are voted for. And the massive complication of people identifying themselves with one party or the other.
it is just f@#$ing stupid.
back to economics - it takes years for an effect from what a gov. does. what you have now is from what bush did. many stupid things. I am not going to point them out because whatever I say, you will ignore - you will support Bush to the bitter end. it is just my hope some will read this and get some glimmer of understanding.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
I understand the markets far more than you realise. And here I see you making the common error 95% of people make thinking that market down = bad response, completely missing the fact that there is down, and there is FURTHER down. Or to put it simply, it is not simply up is good down is bad. It is down, it could be far further down.
ProwlCat came out with the thread with a lot of ! and harsh comments attacking Obama. What did you expect - instant transformation of the economy? Were you just waiting in the wings to attack the new administration? Do you have unbridled loyalty to Bush? Do you have some vested interested in a Bush admin? either for financial gain or some bizarre moralistic loyalty? “don’t say the war” - the cry of the Bush supporter who is willing to overlook EVERYTHING in their support. WTF?
I hate the 2 party system and I hate the ignorant unbridled support people have for one or the other. People identify with one party or the other and as part of their identity they defend it to the bitter end. That is one stupid way to shape a country.
People should vote on issues, individual issues, one issue, one person, one vote. If that person actually understands the issues.
but that is one helluva dream.
Instead we have one person, two parties, a thousand issues, one vote - great. And no guarantee they do what they are voted for. And the massive complication of people identifying themselves with one party or the other.
it is just f@#$ing stupid.
back to economics - it takes years for an effect from what a gov. does. what you have now is from what bush did. many stupid things. I am not going to point them out because whatever I say, you will ignore - you will support Bush to the bitter end. it is just my hope some will read this and get some glimmer of understanding.
[/quote]
You obviously didn’t read my post. You just want a soapbox. It’s all yours.
The only way to really understand the value of the markets is to look at them in terms of the price of gold.
In the 90’s the DOW was worth about 40ish oz. gold. Today it is worth little over 8 oz. gold.
This means that the value of the DOW is slipping with respect to gold. Why? This did not just happen overnight; it’s been steadily happening over many decades.
HH, maybe you have one of those handy-dandy charts that can show the trend over the last 4 decades, since the end of the Bretton Woods Agreement…?
The economy might actually be turning, using shipping as a measure of economic activity.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The economy might actually be turning, using shipping as a measure of economic activity.
[/quote]
Yes, but this chart doesn’t drill down to goods exiting the US.
I have no doubt that producer nations will be ok because the world has plenty of possible consumers to sell to. It is just a matter of finding the correct prices for a particular market.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
HH, maybe you have one of those handy-dandy charts that can show the trend over the last 4 decades, since the end of the Bretton Woods Agreement…?[/quote]
Here ya go. Dow/gold for the last century.
http://www.parcontre.com/charts/Dow-Gold-mthly.jpg
One ounce of gold achieved near parity with the Dow twice: once in June 1932 and again in January 1980.
The chart seems to imply that we’re headed back toward parity again.
Huzzah.
I think it is very important we analyze what was going on between the peaks and parity with respect to gov’t intervention.
