The Second Republican Debate

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m thinking those who are bewildered by Trump’s popularity have underestimated how disgusted many folks are with political correctness.[/quote]

I guess, but I don’t see what he does as anti-political correctness or straight talk per se. I see it as divisive rhetoric.

“Our leaders are stupid”
“Megyn Kelly’s a Bimbo”
“Look at Carly face”
“Rosie’s fat”

These are all non-sense spewed for entertainment value. He thinks he’s on SNL. He can be anti-politically correct without saying dumb things. [/quote]

Yeah, that’s the underside of Trump, very nasty and ugly. But the flip side is that voters view him as being someone who gets things done. Someone who is capable unlike the typical politician who is constantly promising things and never actually accomplishing them.

But, I agree he needs to drop that nasty side in the end it can only hurt him.
[/quote]

Like declaring bankruptcy 5 times…[/quote]

When you are involved in a multitude of businesses not all of them work perfectly. Sort of like a baseball player who gets up to bat 4 times every game the entire season. Will all of those at bats be hits? Of course not. But, if he gets a hit half the time he is batting 500, everyone can appreciate that. Well business is similar Trump has many, many business interests and a few of them failed. But he’s worth 10 billion dollars, so I think we can both agree that the overwhelming majority of them have succeeded.

Stop hating Trump it’s going to make it that much harder to vote for him over Hillary Clinton IF the time comes :wink:

43

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

Haha I should’ve known mentioning HRC would get you going.[/quote]

Naw…I just know and have known, that Hillary is never going to become President. Seriously, she has N O T H I N G. If it wasn’t “her turn” you’d see a better democratic field.

I can’t fault you there it is indeed difficult to see him as President. But we do live in an age where most people under the age of 30 (or so) think Jon Stewart is a newsman and not a comedian. Where we blur the lines of politics and pop culture all the time. Trump as President is hard to swallow…but yeah he could do it. All he has to do this time around is beat the other republicans because the democrats really don’t have much unless there is a white knight standing on the sidelines ready to jump in if Hillary Clinton is indicted. No…not old Joe Biden I mean someone who could actually win.

I’m not saying that, the polls are saying it. The more people see and hear Trump the more they like him, no matter what he says. Hey, I don’t fully understand it but it is what it is.

[quote]I get what you’re saying about the history of three terms, but Trump is going against all the normal insight political analysts are doing. Right now that’s working for him, how long will it continue? Point to any numbers you want, Trump’s not riding on the usual political river so predications are pointless regarding him… actually predictions are always pointless, but fun nonetheless. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I agree, this is a fun game to follow. And I will be the last guy to tell you that Trump is going to become President because he has to get through a very tough field of highly qualified republicans. But I will predict (because predictions are fun especially when you are wrong and the other posters say "HA Zeb you were wrong you forking idiot…I really like it when that happens) that if Trump wins the nomination and if he runs against Hillary, Bernie or Biden he will absolutely become President!

44

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[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m thinking those who are bewildered by Trump’s popularity have underestimated how disgusted many folks are with political correctness.[/quote]

I guess, but I don’t see what he does as anti-political correctness or straight talk per se. I see it as divisive rhetoric.

“Our leaders are stupid”
“Megyn Kelly’s a Bimbo”
“Look at Carly face”
“Rosie’s fat”

These are all non-sense spewed for entertainment value. He thinks he’s on SNL. He can be anti-politically correct without saying dumb things. [/quote]

Yeah, that’s the underside of Trump, very nasty and ugly. But the flip side is that voters view him as being someone who gets things done. Someone who is capable unlike the typical politician who is constantly promising things and never actually accomplishing them.

But, I agree he needs to drop that nasty side in the end it can only hurt him.
[/quote]

Like declaring bankruptcy 5 times…[/quote]

When you are involved in a multitude of businesses not all of them work perfectly. Sort of like a baseball player who gets up to bat 4 times every game the entire season. Will all of those at bats be hits? Of course not. But, if he gets a hit half the time he is batting 500, everyone can appreciate that. Well business is similar Trump has many, many business interests and a few of them failed. But he’s worth 10 billion dollars, so I think we can both agree that the overwhelming majority of them have succeeded.

Stop hating Trump it’s going to make it that much harder to vote for him over Hillary Clinton IF the time comes :wink:
[/quote]

So Trump gets a pass for 5 bankruptcy’s, but Fiorina gets hate for a merger that ultimately worked out for the company and lost jobs during the dot.com bubble burst? Makes perfect sense.

She helped create 22K jobs at AT&T’s spin off Lucent.

I will not vote for Trump, period.

45

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I’m with Zeb in surmising that Sanders has absolutely no chance at the White House. [/quote]

I’ve had two people in two days try and tell me there should be income and wealth caps in this country…

I don’t share your two’s comfort, but again, am hoping beyond hope you’re right.

46

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I’m with Zeb in surmising that Sanders has absolutely no chance at the White House. [/quote]

I’ve had two people in two days try and tell me there should be income and wealth caps in this country…

I don’t share your two’s comfort, but again, am hoping beyond hope you’re right. [/quote]

You gotta remember what part of the country you live in though. I don’t think your average voter in Iowa, Ohio, Florida, etc… thinks there should be an wealth cap.

47

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m thinking those who are bewildered by Trump’s popularity have underestimated how disgusted many folks are with political correctness.[/quote]

I guess, but I don’t see what he does as anti-political correctness or straight talk per se. I see it as divisive rhetoric.

“Our leaders are stupid”
“Megyn Kelly’s a Bimbo”
“Look at Carly face”
“Rosie’s fat”

These are all non-sense spewed for entertainment value. He thinks he’s on SNL. He can be anti-politically correct without saying dumb things. [/quote]

Yeah, that’s the underside of Trump, very nasty and ugly. But the flip side is that voters view him as being someone who gets things done. Someone who is capable unlike the typical politician who is constantly promising things and never actually accomplishing them.

But, I agree he needs to drop that nasty side in the end it can only hurt him.
[/quote]

Like declaring bankruptcy 5 times…[/quote]

When you are involved in a multitude of businesses not all of them work perfectly. Sort of like a baseball player who gets up to bat 4 times every game the entire season. Will all of those at bats be hits? Of course not. But, if he gets a hit half the time he is batting 500, everyone can appreciate that. Well business is similar Trump has many, many business interests and a few of them failed. But he’s worth 10 billion dollars, so I think we can both agree that the overwhelming majority of them have succeeded.

Stop hating Trump it’s going to make it that much harder to vote for him over Hillary Clinton IF the time comes :wink:
[/quote]

So Trump gets a pass for 5 bankruptcy’s, but Fiorina gets hate for a merger that ultimately worked out for the company and lost jobs during the dot.com bubble burst? Makes perfect sense.

She helped create 22K jobs at AT&T’s spin off Lucent.

I will not vote for Trump, period. [/quote]

If Trump and Clinton are the Republican and Democrat nominees respectively, will you* cast a vote for President? Will you vote for a third party, knowing that Trump or Clinton will be the next President? Will you participate in the same process that has left you without the opportunity to cast a vote for a candidate with a realistic chance of winning?

  • “You” refers to anyone that feels the same way about any Democrat/Republican candidate/s.
48

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m thinking those who are bewildered by Trump’s popularity have underestimated how disgusted many folks are with political correctness.[/quote]

I guess, but I don’t see what he does as anti-political correctness or straight talk per se. I see it as divisive rhetoric.

“Our leaders are stupid”
“Megyn Kelly’s a Bimbo”
“Look at Carly face”
“Rosie’s fat”

These are all non-sense spewed for entertainment value. He thinks he’s on SNL. He can be anti-politically correct without saying dumb things. [/quote]

Yeah, that’s the underside of Trump, very nasty and ugly. But the flip side is that voters view him as being someone who gets things done. Someone who is capable unlike the typical politician who is constantly promising things and never actually accomplishing them.

But, I agree he needs to drop that nasty side in the end it can only hurt him.
[/quote]

Like declaring bankruptcy 5 times…[/quote]

When you are involved in a multitude of businesses not all of them work perfectly. Sort of like a baseball player who gets up to bat 4 times every game the entire season. Will all of those at bats be hits? Of course not. But, if he gets a hit half the time he is batting 500, everyone can appreciate that. Well business is similar Trump has many, many business interests and a few of them failed. But he’s worth 10 billion dollars, so I think we can both agree that the overwhelming majority of them have succeeded.

Stop hating Trump it’s going to make it that much harder to vote for him over Hillary Clinton IF the time comes :wink:
[/quote]

So Trump gets a pass for 5 bankruptcy’s, but Fiorina gets hate for a merger that ultimately worked out for the company and lost jobs during the dot.com bubble burst? Makes perfect sense.

She helped create 22K jobs at AT&T’s spin off Lucent.

I will not vote for Trump, period. [/quote]

If Trump and Clinton are the Republican and Democrat nominees respectively, will you* cast a vote for President? Will you vote for a third party, knowing that Trump or Clinton will be the next President? Will you participate in the same process that has left you without the opportunity to cast a vote for a candidate with a realistic chance of winning?

  • “You” refers to anyone that feels the same way about any Democrat/Republican candidate/s.[/quote]

Probably not.

49

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I’m with Zeb in surmising that Sanders has absolutely no chance at the White House. [/quote]

I’ve had two people in two days try and tell me there should be income and wealth caps in this country…

I don’t share your two’s comfort, but again, am hoping beyond hope you’re right. [/quote]

Selection bias dude … we live in a state that willfully elected Lizzy Warren to the Senate and Barney Frank to a lifetime position in the House - chances are anyone you and I talk to on a daily basis will gladly eat anything a socialist shovels out of their ass

50

You guys are actually making me feel a lot better lol. Not good. But better.

51

I’ll throw it out to you guys again…

Do you find it almost surreal that Jeb seems to no even be in the conversation?

(Maybe it’s just me…)

Mufasa

52

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’ll throw it out to you guys again…

Do you find it almost surreal that Jeb seems to no even be in the conversation?

(Maybe it’s just me…)

Mufasa[/quote]

Considering the amount of money he has raised? Yes. Maybe he’s waiting until the Trump noise clears, which might be a disaster decision, or might be brilliant if closer to the primaries we get blitzed by Jeb support.

Considering his family name, people are sick of the political class, and people don’t view him as a strong conservative? No.

53

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m not saying that, the polls are saying it. The more people see and hear Trump the more they like him, no matter what he says. Hey, I don’t fully understand it but it is what it is.
[/quote]

Not sure what polls you are all looking at but real clear averages has HRC up over Trump.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html

jnd

54

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

So Trump gets a pass for 5 bankruptcy’s, but Fiorina gets hate for a merger that ultimately worked out for the company and lost jobs during the dot.com bubble burst? Makes perfect sense. [/quote]

Hey, I’m not a big Trump fan but when you kick it up to 10 billion you’ve done a lot right. Sure as I said he has had his failures but overall he’s one of the richest guys in the US so I have to give him his due. Fiorina doesn’t nearly have the resume of Donald Trump.

I would support Fiorina in a heart beat over Hillary (the liar) Clinton. I don’t have to even think about it. Here’s why, if we have another four to eight years of out of control spending by the left we are pretty much done as a country. The left doesn’t get it and they never will. They need to continue to feed their many followers and new recruits with out of control give-a-way programs. Not to mention the judges that want to change the laws (for the worse) from the bench not really interpreting the constitution but making it up as they go along. No, we cannot afford another democrat President for a good long time.

On the other hand regardless of who the republicans choose I will vote for the republican philosophy. Granted it is far from perfect and past republican Presidents have let me down. But I do know that we have at least a chance with a republican President. And if we get a republican House and Senate in addition to a republican President we might just make a great comeback!

I get it you don’t like Trump personally, neither do I. What’s to like? He’s a big mouth bragger who loves himself first. At least that’s the impression he gives. But, I sure will support him over Hillary Clinton the liar, Bernie sanders the socialist or Joe Biden the liberal gaffe machine.

Don’t make the mistake that the majority of people in the US make. Don’t vote for or against personality. Vote for a philosophy, a party (even tough the party is not perfect—far from it). And if you want more left wing judges, higher taxes, run away spending and big government make sure that you stay home on election day and give Hillary a chance to win. All because the republican candidate is not the exact one that you want.

(Personally I don’t see Trump making it all the way. But keep in mind a half a loaf is better than no loaf at all!)

55

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I’m with Zeb in surmising that Sanders has absolutely no chance at the White House. [/quote]

I’ve had two people in two days try and tell me there should be income and wealth caps in this country…

I don’t share your two’s comfort, but again, am hoping beyond hope you’re right. [/quote]

Sometimes when you really don’t want something to happen it seems like it’s going to happen right?

know what I mean?

56

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’ll throw it out to you guys again…

Do you find it almost surreal that Jeb seems to no even be in the conversation?

(Maybe it’s just me…)

Mufasa[/quote]

No, I’m quite comfortable with it. I wish him all the best after he leaves the race. Honestly, he is one of 4 candidates that may have lost to Hillary. Every day I see his poll numbers slide is a good day!

57

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

Considering his family name, people are sick of the political class, and people don’t view him as a strong conservative? No.[/quote]

Spot on!

58

[quote]jnd wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m not saying that, the polls are saying it. The more people see and hear Trump the more they like him, no matter what he says. Hey, I don’t fully understand it but it is what it is.
[/quote]

Not sure what polls you are all looking at but real clear averages has HRC up over Trump.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html

jnd[/quote]

Looking at your thread it shows pretty much a statistical dead heat. When one candidate is ahead of the other by a couple of percentage points that is a statistical dead heat. At that point it is who’s supporters are motivated to get out and actually vote. If I were Hillary I would not rest easy being 2 or even 3 ahead. Sure the feminists will be motivated to vote for her. But, what about the other 77% of women…not to mention the rest of the country that are not all that excited about Hillary?

I also noticed that in one poll Trump was ahead of Clinton by 5%! One more point, they are polling weekly and the numbers change pretty quickly. Some of the numbers that you posted are from August which doesn’t mean much in mid September.

This is the poll that should concern Hillary supporters:

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/bernie-sanders-ahead-of-hillary-clinton-in-new-hampshire-polls/

I also understand that she is losing to old Bernie the Socialist in Iowa.

I’m thinking Hillary is in deep trouble.

Your thoughts?

59

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]jnd wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m not saying that, the polls are saying it. The more people see and hear Trump the more they like him, no matter what he says. Hey, I don’t fully understand it but it is what it is.
[/quote]

Not sure what polls you are all looking at but real clear averages has HRC up over Trump.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html

jnd[/quote]

Looking at your thread it shows pretty much a statistical dead heat. When one candidate is ahead of the other by a couple of percentage points that is a statistical dead heat. At that point it is who’s supporters are motivated to get out and actually vote. If I were Hillary I would not rest easy being 2 or even 3 ahead. Sure the feminists will be motivated to vote for her. But, what about the other 77% of women…not to mention the rest of the country that are not all that excited about Hillary?

I also noticed that in one poll Trump was ahead of Clinton by 5%! One more point, they are polling weekly and the numbers change pretty quickly. Some of the numbers that you posted are from August which doesn’t mean much in mid September.

This is the poll that should concern Hillary supporters:

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/bernie-sanders-ahead-of-hillary-clinton-in-new-hampshire-polls/

I also understand that she is losing to old Bernie the Socialist in Iowa.

I’m thinking Hillary is in deep trouble.

Your thoughts?

[/quote]

RealClear shows the average of the polls which is MUCH better than anything else (even the most recent poll). As such- losing one poll is meaningless- it is the average of all of the polls that really matters because you have an increasing denominator. Once there are 5, 10, 15 polls, the standard errors shrink into the sub 1% range.

jnd

60

This is the poll I was referring to by US Survey. Trump beats Hillary 45 to 40.

http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/09/05/poll-trump-beats-hillary-head-head

But I do not disagree with your analysis of the many polls.