The Second Republican Debate

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I hope Carly demolished Trump tomorrow. He’s a decent entertainer, but a huge asshat. He’s a just a male Kardashian. His supporters are clowns. All you have to do is look at some of the morons he had behind him in his worthless speech from last night. This whole spectacle is a joke.

[/quote]

I respectfully disagree with you my friend. While the speech started out very slowly as the first 20 minutes was Trump talking about how great he is. But then he actually had some substantive answers to our many problems from immigration to the Iran nuclear deal to import/export and much more. The problem I am having is that I am not sure that he means it. He was a democrat as most know. Has he seen the light? I’m hoping that’s the case if he is the (gulp) nominee.[/quote]

I’ll take your word for it, I turned it off after 10 minutes. Right around when he started talking about some billion sitting in the stands.

22

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It’s not just him either. I like Carson, but he isn’t going to get a 10% flat tax. Not gonna happen…The only non-politician that gets it is Fiorina. [/quote]

I wouldn’t put too much hope in Fiorina. She lost the Senate race a couple years back when she choked in a debate. Granted she might be better now. But still her record at HP is nothing to write home about. In fact, when she announced she was leaving the stock went up!

But yeah she’d still be better than Hillary (I lie about everything) Clinton. If it came down to it.[/quote]

Her record at HP is really not as bad as the media makes it out to be.

Edit: She was also running against an establish democrat (Boxer) is a very blue place.

23

[quote]ZEB wrote:
But you don’t really think that the democrats will allow old Bernie to actually win do you?

[/quote]

Really hope you’re right.

24

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It’s not just him either. I like Carson, but he isn’t going to get a 10% flat tax. Not gonna happen…The only non-politician that gets it is Fiorina. [/quote]

I wouldn’t put too much hope in Fiorina. She lost the Senate race a couple years back when she choked in a debate. Granted she might be better now. But still her record at HP is nothing to write home about. In fact, when she announced she was leaving the stock went up!

But yeah she’d still be better than Hillary (I lie about everything) Clinton. If it came down to it.[/quote]

Her record at HP is really not as bad as the media makes it out to be.

Edit: She was also running against an establish democrat (Boxer) is a very blue place. [/quote]

True it is a blue state and they love Boxer out there. But still if she is the nominee I would worry more about her than I would just about anyone else.

One reason Boxer beat her was that the democrat talked about Fiorina’s horrible record as CEO of HP. She laid off something like 30,000 employees and voters really, really hate that stuff. Her record at HP was abysmal and I think she’d be better off running for a lower office as she tried to do in California. Honestly, out of the 16 candidates left she is probably one of the worst to nominate. But I will say that she presents very well and seems sharp on the issues. But I’d much rather have someone who is the total package and that is certainly not her.

25

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
But you don’t really think that the democrats will allow old Bernie to actually win do you?

[/quote]

Really hope you’re right. [/quote]

I actually hope that I’m wrong, Bernie Sanders would get crushed against any of the GOP candidates. Seriously…that guy has nothing going for him from age to presentation to lack of charisma right down to his socialist positions. He does draw big crowds but did you every take a good look at the majority of them? They are a bunch of 20 something misfits and old hippies. Ha seriously no worries about him getting elected to the Presidency.

26

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

Maybe Americans are just ready for a leader/ruler that acts like a leader/ruler. Americans long ago decided that the President should be a leader/ruler, but we have continued to elect folks that play nice/act like pussies/basically the govern the same way as the other guy would have. We are not as advanced as we like to pretend, and people still(like on the playground in elementary school) want to follow someone worth(very subjective) following.
[/quote]

I think you pegged it.[/quote]

I had a feeling that you would agree.

28

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Is our society dumbed down to the point where anything goes?

[/quote]

I think it’s Trump’s straight plain talk you mentioned.[/quote]

…and he’s been “vetted” for the 30-40 years he has been in the Public Eye.

Besides that mop of his (which defies explanation!)…is there really much we don’t know about the man?

In other words…“What you see and hear is REALLY what you will get…”.

Many people find that to be a VERY desirable trait.

Mufasa
[/quote]

Except he has flip flopped on every issue… His supporters really don’t know what they’ll get. His tax plan sounds like Bernie Sander’s plan, he was once in favor of single payer health care, he was once pro-choice, etc… Now all of a sudden he’s a conservative, right.

He’s been vetted and he’s a progressive, but the dumb asses supporting him are eating up the rhetoric (genius on Trumps part) hook, line, and sinker. He isn’t going to get Mexico to build a wall, her isn’t going to deport 12MM people, he isn’t going to renegotiate the Iran deal, and he isn’t going to magically get our people back from Iran before he takes office. It’s fucking non-sense. [/quote]

This. Spot on. Dude is a clown of the highest order. [/quote]

+1 to usmc.

Zeb, you have mentioned HRC’s negative polls multiple times, have you looked at Trump’s? I’d agree with beans, if it was Trump vs. Sanders the dems win. Sanders could get the young vote by promising them free college, Trump is a reality TV star who will only get support from the far right. Any middle-right republican or independant thinks he’s a joke. I’m with you on the Rubio/Kasich ticket, although I would prefer Kasich/Rubio. The Ohio/Florida combo is a slam dunk. One can hope.

29

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It’s not just him either. I like Carson, but he isn’t going to get a 10% flat tax. Not gonna happen…The only non-politician that gets it is Fiorina. [/quote]

I wouldn’t put too much hope in Fiorina. She lost the Senate race a couple years back when she choked in a debate. Granted she might be better now. But still her record at HP is nothing to write home about. In fact, when she announced she was leaving the stock went up!

But yeah she’d still be better than Hillary (I lie about everything) Clinton. If it came down to it.[/quote]

Her record at HP is really not as bad as the media makes it out to be.

Edit: She was also running against an establish democrat (Boxer) is a very blue place. [/quote]

True it is a blue state and they love Boxer out there. But still if she is the nominee I would worry more about her than I would just about anyone else.

One reason Boxer beat her was that the democrat talked about Fiorina’s horrible record as CEO of HP. She laid off something like 30,000 employees and voters really, really hate that stuff. Her record at HP was abysmal and I think she’d be better off running for a lower office as she tried to do in California. Honestly, out of the 16 candidates left she is probably one of the worst to nominate. But I will say that she presents very well and seems sharp on the issues. But I’d much rather have someone who is the total package and that is certainly not her.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/10/news/companies/carly-fiorina-donald-trump-hp-hewlett-packard/index.html[/quote]

The criticism are mostly crap. Some criticism is warranted, but not what is heaped on her. Not when you read the whole story.

31

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m thinking those who are bewildered by Trump’s popularity have underestimated how disgusted many folks are with political correctness.[/quote]

I guess, but I don’t see what he does as anti-political correctness or straight talk per se. I see it as divisive rhetoric.

“Our leaders are stupid”
“Megyn Kelly’s a Bimbo”
“Look at Carly face”
“Rosie’s fat”

These are all non-sense spewed for entertainment value. He thinks he’s on SNL. He can be anti-politically correct without saying dumb things.

32

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

Zeb, you have mentioned HRC’s negative polls multiple times, have you looked at Trump’s? I’d agree with beans, if it was Trump vs. Sanders the dems win.[/quote]

Before I answer your post I want you to know that I am willing to bet you that if the nominees were Trump and Sanders that Trump wins. How much do you want to lose?

I sure have looked at them and unlike Hillary’s negatives Trumps improve almost monthly. Everyone knows Hillary and most don’t like her. And don’t forget the fact that the Justice Department is not through with her yet. I expect her negatives will continue to grow (as they have over the past 6 months) as Donald Trumps go down. Also, Trump is new to the political scene. And I don’t have to explain to you how this time around many voters dislike standard politicians do I? Hillary will never become President of the US, not now, not ever! Bet?

He may win the youth vote but they won’t turn out like they did for Obama. They will go back to their 25% to 30% turnout rate and Bernie may win over half…no big deal won’t make a difference.

Trump on the other hand will win the majority of white women and men. He will also capture the overwhelming majority of senior citizens who seem to love him and they also know what socialism is, unlike the stupid 20 something’s who wold vote for Sanders. One more point, can you guess what demographic turns out to in the largest numbers? Yeah…senior citizens!

Untrue, Trump was first and foremost a billionaire business man who has had more accomplishments in one year than Hillary and Bernie combined have had in a lifetime. People do recognize things like that. They also give Trump credit whether it is deserving or not, for his ability to handle the economy, which as you know is usually the number one issue on everyone’s mind. As the Bill Clinton’s advisors once said “it’s the economy stupid.”

I don’t disagree with you that many do think he’s a joke…right now. But less think he’s a joke today than two months ago. And if it comes down to a decision between the former first lady, a known liar, who was a horrible Secretary of State and Donald Trump a successful big mouth bragger, Trump wins every time. The democratic party base will NOT be excited about Hillary or Bernie. Trump, or any republican will walk into victory. One more point, we have had a democrat in the White House for 8 years. Tell me, when is the last time that the democratic party won the White house three terms in a row? We have to go way back to FDR to Truman 1945! And that was Franklin Delano Roosevelt my friend. You think people are clamoring for another democrat after 8 years of Obama? Ha you need to think about that one.

[quote]I’m with you on the Rubio/Kasich ticket, although I would prefer Kasich/Rubio. The Ohio/Florida combo is a slam dunk. One can hope.
[/quote]

Ah…now you’re making sense!

33

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It’s not just him either. I like Carson, but he isn’t going to get a 10% flat tax. Not gonna happen…The only non-politician that gets it is Fiorina. [/quote]

I wouldn’t put too much hope in Fiorina. She lost the Senate race a couple years back when she choked in a debate. Granted she might be better now. But still her record at HP is nothing to write home about. In fact, when she announced she was leaving the stock went up!

But yeah she’d still be better than Hillary (I lie about everything) Clinton. If it came down to it.[/quote]

Her record at HP is really not as bad as the media makes it out to be.

Edit: She was also running against an establish democrat (Boxer) is a very blue place. [/quote]

True it is a blue state and they love Boxer out there. But still if she is the nominee I would worry more about her than I would just about anyone else.

One reason Boxer beat her was that the democrat talked about Fiorina’s horrible record as CEO of HP. She laid off something like 30,000 employees and voters really, really hate that stuff. Her record at HP was abysmal and I think she’d be better off running for a lower office as she tried to do in California. Honestly, out of the 16 candidates left she is probably one of the worst to nominate. But I will say that she presents very well and seems sharp on the issues. But I’d much rather have someone who is the total package and that is certainly not her.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/10/news/companies/carly-fiorina-donald-trump-hp-hewlett-packard/index.html[/quote]

The criticism are mostly crap. Some criticism is warranted, but not what is heaped on her. Not when you read the whole story.

[/quote]

But in politics perception rules over reality.

All the DNC has to do is put out those nasty numbers “Fiorina laid off 30,000 people at HP, don’t let her put you out of a job” vote for_____________.

34

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m thinking those who are bewildered by Trump’s popularity have underestimated how disgusted many folks are with political correctness.[/quote]

Push, great read. My wife said the other day “even if all Trump does is bury this horrible PC nonsense I’d gladly vote for him.”

And I have heard things like that repeatedly from many people of both parties!

35

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m thinking those who are bewildered by Trump’s popularity have underestimated how disgusted many folks are with political correctness.[/quote]

I guess, but I don’t see what he does as anti-political correctness or straight talk per se. I see it as divisive rhetoric.

“Our leaders are stupid”
“Megyn Kelly’s a Bimbo”
“Look at Carly face”
“Rosie’s fat”

These are all non-sense spewed for entertainment value. He thinks he’s on SNL. He can be anti-politically correct without saying dumb things. [/quote]

Yeah, that’s the underside of Trump, very nasty and ugly. But the flip side is that voters view him as being someone who gets things done. Someone who is capable unlike the typical politician who is constantly promising things and never actually accomplishing them.

But, I agree he needs to drop that nasty side in the end it can only hurt him.

37

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

“Our leaders are stupid”
“Megyn Kelly’s a Bimbo”
“Look at Carly face”
“Rosie’s fat”

[/quote]

But see…saying all of those things is indeed politically incorrect.

[/quote]

It’s non-sense is what it is.

38

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m thinking those who are bewildered by Trump’s popularity have underestimated how disgusted many folks are with political correctness.[/quote]

I guess, but I don’t see what he does as anti-political correctness or straight talk per se. I see it as divisive rhetoric.

“Our leaders are stupid”
“Megyn Kelly’s a Bimbo”
“Look at Carly face”
“Rosie’s fat”

These are all non-sense spewed for entertainment value. He thinks he’s on SNL. He can be anti-politically correct without saying dumb things. [/quote]

Yeah, that’s the underside of Trump, very nasty and ugly. But the flip side is that voters view him as being someone who gets things done. Someone who is capable unlike the typical politician who is constantly promising things and never actually accomplishing them.

But, I agree he needs to drop that nasty side in the end it can only hurt him.
[/quote]

Like declaring bankruptcy 5 times…

39

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m thinking those who are bewildered by Trump’s popularity have underestimated how disgusted many folks are with political correctness.[/quote]

Personally I’m not bewildered by it. A touch embarrassed, yeah, but bewildered? Nah…

I just don’t think he’d be a good POTUS, but my long dead dog would be a better POTUS than Sanders…

40

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

Zeb, you have mentioned HRC’s negative polls multiple times, have you looked at Trump’s? I’d agree with beans, if it was Trump vs. Sanders the dems win.[/quote]

Before I answer your post I want you to know that I am willing to bet you that if the nominees were Trump and Sanders that Trump wins. How much do you want to lose?

I sure have looked at them and unlike Hillary’s negatives Trumps improve almost monthly. Everyone knows Hillary and most don’t like her. And don’t forget the fact that the Justice Department is not through with her yet. I expect her negatives will continue to grow (as they have over the past 6 months) as Donald Trumps go down. Also, Trump is new to the political scene. And I don’t have to explain to you how this time around many voters dislike standard politicians do I? Hillary will never become President of the US, not now, not ever! Bet?

He may win the youth vote but they won’t turn out like they did for Obama. They will go back to their 25% to 30% turnout rate and Bernie may win over half…no big deal won’t make a difference.

Trump on the other hand will win the majority of white women and men. He will also capture the overwhelming majority of senior citizens who seem to love him and they also know what socialism is, unlike the stupid 20 something’s who wold vote for Sanders. One more point, can you guess what demographic turns out to in the largest numbers? Yeah…senior citizens!

Untrue, Trump was first and foremost a billionaire business man who has had more accomplishments in one year than Hillary and Bernie combined have had in a lifetime. People do recognize things like that. They also give Trump credit whether it is deserving or not, for his ability to handle the economy, which as you know is usually the number one issue on everyone’s mind. As the Bill Clinton’s advisors once said “it’s the economy stupid.”

I don’t disagree with you that many do think he’s a joke…right now. But less think he’s a joke today than two months ago. And if it comes down to a decision between the former first lady, a known liar, who was a horrible Secretary of State and Donald Trump a successful big mouth bragger, Trump wins every time. The democratic party base will NOT be excited about Hillary or Bernie. Trump, or any republican will walk into victory. One more point, we have had a democrat in the White House for 8 years. Tell me, when is the last time that the democratic party won the White house three terms in a row? We have to go way back to FDR to Truman 1945! And that was Franklin Delano Roosevelt my friend. You think people are clamoring for another democrat after 8 years of Obama? Ha you need to think about that one.

[quote]I’m with you on the Rubio/Kasich ticket, although I would prefer Kasich/Rubio. The Ohio/Florida combo is a slam dunk. One can hope.
[/quote]

Ah…now you’re making sense!
[/quote]

Haha I should’ve known mentioning HRC would get you going. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending HRC by any means so no need to get into that rant. I’m also not for Bernie in any way, but I just can’t see Trump as president. You say less think he’s a joke right now than two months ago, even after what he said about Kelly and Carly… I just don’t see the president of the USA acting like that.

I get what you’re saying about the history of three terms, but Trump is going against all the normal insight political analysts are doing. Right now that’s working for him, how long will it continue? Point to any numbers you want, Trump’s not riding on the usual political river so predications are pointless regarding him… actually predictions are always pointless, but fun nonetheless. :slight_smile: