[quote]browndisaster wrote:
20 lb difference in 13 years, definitely a process of refinement once you’ve gotten to a certain level
he’s a big fan of just tracking his macros and not worrying about timing at all[/quote]
Gee, good for him.
Some of us here are after EXTREME GROWTH and development. If you’re happy with weighing less than 175 after 20 years in the gym then so be it but stop telling everyone else who got big that this is how it’s done.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
20 lb difference in 13 years, definitely a process of refinement once you’ve gotten to a certain level
he’s a big fan of just tracking his macros and not worrying about timing at all[/quote]
Gee, good for him.
Some of us here are after EXTREME GROWTH and development. If you’re happy with weighing less than 175 after 20 years in the gym then so be it but stop telling everyone else who got big that this is how it’s done.[/quote]
If y’all keep this up a certain someone’s gonna cry 'til his friends remove all “insensitive” posts.
BEV’S POWERHOUSE, SYOSSET, LONG ISLAND, NY
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
20 lb difference in 13 years, definitely a process of refinement once you’ve gotten to a certain level
he’s a big fan of just tracking his macros and not worrying about timing at all[/quote]
Anyone know how tall he is?
lol stfu guys, this is cyber-bullying
things I used to worry about - scale weight and meal timing, are now way less important in my mind, than how I perform in the gym and how I (objectively as possible) look in the mirror. My eventual goal would be to weigh above 220 at however lean I am now, which would actually be huge. It’s going to take years to get even close to that 3 lb/inch goal…
to me, discipline = very consistently doing whatever needs to be done to get my further to my goals. If there’s a psychologically easier way to get to what physiologically works, I’m all for it. I think too often bodybuilding advice is based on “feeling hardcore” and overanalyzing/stretching scientific studies, rather than what can be done easily to make progress and be awesome. In my honest opinion, this can be an easy and fun hobby if you avoid the broscience.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
METROFLEX DALLAS
[quote]howie424 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I’m actually not, Chris. Many people in this thread were making that claim…that they literally “ate whenever they felt like” and that this was just as good as having a regular schedule because the discipline didn’t make any difference.[/quote]
You can still get very big and very strong eating whenever you feel like it. Eating whenever you feel like it doesn’t mean eating less. You can still easily get 3-6 meals in while eating whenever you feel like it or whenever you’re hungry.
Some people NEED discipline in their lives, some people DON’T.[/quote]
Discipline is what makes the difference between someone being average and someone being well above average.
It is what keeps you in this when circumstances happen to you that could throw you off course.
That is what we have been discussing.
The ones who reach that level of development are the ones WHO LAST through all of that.
The guy who “eats whenever he feels like” from the very start as a newb has a way worse chance of holding on later because just a a heads up…life can be rough no matter how well you plan ahead.
There is a reason most of the larger guys did things a certain way…and that is what I am trying to discuss here.
If you disagree, fine.
You prove everyone wrong by reaching an extreme degree of development with lacking focus and discipline.
Good luck.[/quote]
X. Good lord man.
First off, EXTREME DEVELOPMENT does not mean being as big as possible. There are far more things than just size that determine if someone has extreme development.
For the record, YOU are not extreme development. You are extreme size, but certainly not extreme development.
Prove everyone wrong? You mean prove you wrong? I will prove you wrong by reaching an extreme level of development. That’s why I do this shit. But I can promise you that won’t mean becoming a big, weezing permabulker like you.
I 'm fairly amused by the fact that posting pics of Metroflex gyms, which are essentially hardcore havens and as such attract a certain type of trainer, is supposed to be representative of what the average people in gyms these days look like. I train at a pretty damn hardcore gym. Lots of competitive bodybuilders, physique and figure girls, a few bikini and MPD folks, and a good number of powerlifters.
I’ve been to Bev’s and Coloseum too many times to count. If I wanted to take photos of just the groups of serious (competitive?) people who train and say it was representative of the majority of the gym’s members I could. I’d be lying though, and ignoring the fact that even the most ‘hardcore’ gyms count on about 90% (my own estimation) of their clients to not make progress but simply support the gym’s financial existence. I’ve worked at a few gyms in my day, and this is a common understanding amongst the sales staff. MY point being that the “average gym goer” (in MY fairest estimation - anyone please feel free to disagree) is not over 200 lbs (unless they’re fairly fat) and they do not have arms over 15" (unless they’re fat). I’m speaking of course of folks who do not make use of PEDs with the serious focus on self improvement (competitive or not doesn’t matter).
And in reference to my gains made during competitive years, you have to realize several things. First, I trained for 15 years before I ever stepped foot onstage. During that time, I wasted a lot of years following bad advice, training incorrectly, eating poorly, even being less than consistent and disciplined. Still, I managed to put on muscular weight. Possibly not as much or as quickly as I would have had I done everything correctly and all out from the get go. Once I started competing, my overall weight (off season) never surpassed what I had weighed before I got a solid handle on the many variables involved in this crazy pursuit. I honestly believe that the majority of “gains” that come once a competitor reaches a certain point is solely from gaining a better understanding of how your body responds, and being able to retain more muscle as you diet down, not actually packing on pounds of muscle (grams maybe, not pounds).
As an example: I weighed 170 lbs onstage for my 1st show, and did a ton of cardio, ate few carbs, and while I came in condition, could have been bigger.
In my last contest I weighed in at 178 lbs. I did a few sessions of intervals each week, ate tons of carbs, and had grown into the largest middleweight onstage, even nabbing a class win one time as the lightest competitor in the light-heavyweight men’s open.
Did I really pack on 8 lbs after already having trained for 15+ years? Doubtful. Did I pack on SOME muscle while basically learning how to diet in a smarter way? Unquestionably. The notion that dieting for contests after already training as long as I did without ever cutting down once somehow limited me is ludicrous.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I 'm fairly amused by the fact that posting pics of Metroflex gyms, which are essentially hardcore havens and as such attract a certain type of trainer, is supposed to be representative of what the average people in gyms these days look like. I train at a pretty damn hardcore gym. Lots of competitive bodybuilders, physique and figure girls, a few bikini and MPD folks, and a good number of powerlifters.
I’ve been to Bev’s and Coloseum too many times to count. If I wanted to take photos of just the groups of serious (competitive?) people who train and say it was representative of the majority of the gym’s members I could. I’d be lying though, and ignoring the fact that even the most ‘hardcore’ gyms count on about 90% (my own estimation) of their clients to not make progress but simply support the gym’s financial existence. I’ve worked at a few gyms in my day, and this is a common understanding amongst the sales staff. MY point being that the “average gym goer” (in MY fairest estimation - anyone please feel free to disagree) is not over 200 lbs (unless they’re fairly fat) and they do not have arms over 15" (unless they’re fat). I’m speaking of course of folks who do not make use of PEDs with the serious focus on self improvement (competitive or not doesn’t matter).
And in reference to my gains made during competitive years, you have to realize several things. First, I trained for 15 years before I ever stepped foot onstage. During that time, I wasted a lot of years following bad advice, training incorrectly, eating poorly, even being less than consistent and disciplined. Still, I managed to put on muscular weight. Possibly not as much or as quickly as I would have had I done everything correctly and all out from the get go. Once I started competing, my overall weight (off season) never surpassed what I had weighed before I got a solid handle on the many variables involved in this crazy pursuit. I honestly believe that the majority of “gains” that come once a competitor reaches a certain point is solely from gaining a better understanding of how your body responds, and being able to retain more muscle as you diet down, not actually packing on pounds of muscle (grams maybe, not pounds).
As an example: I weighed 170 lbs onstage for my 1st show, and did a ton of cardio, ate few carbs, and while I came in condition, could have been bigger.
In my last contest I weighed in at 178 lbs. I did a few sessions of intervals each week, ate tons of carbs, and had grown into the largest middleweight onstage, even nabbing a class win one time as the lightest competitor in the light-heavyweight men’s open.
Did I really pack on 8 lbs after already having trained for 15+ years? Doubtful. Did I pack on SOME muscle while basically learning how to diet in a smarter way? Unquestionably. The notion that dieting for contests after already training as long as I did without ever cutting down once somehow limited me is ludicrous.
S
[/quote]
Straight from the horse’s mouth!
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/786x0/f/9//f9105_ORIG-Screen_shot_2013_10_05_at_18.53.17.jpg
;)[/quote]
Yeah, shit like this is real mature.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Majin wrote:
And this notion that if you don’t have a burger in your face all day, you’ll miss the growth spurt and don’t grow to your “REAL” potential is ridiculous. It’s the definition of bro science. [/quote]
Yeah, it would be if anyone was telling people they needed to “have burgers in their face all day long”.
It seems like you would have far less to argue against if you stuck to quoting what was actually written…instead of the hyperbole you added for effect.[/quote]
You clearly support stuffing your face and force feeding. You said that in your “ask PX” thread or elsewhere many times. You vehemently supported it on page 5, then lied that you didn’t a page ago. Which is why I pointed it out by quoting you then.
Here, I will quote you again:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
Go about 3/4 of the way down for a ridiculous Dave Tate anecdote about bulking.[/quote]
[quote]“For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don’t care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that shit down and eat. That’s your breakfast.”
At this point I’m thinking this guy is nuts. But he’s completely serious.
“For lunch you’re gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don’t want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bullshit. I don’t care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can’t let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter.”
“For dinner you’re gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don’t like sardines, don’t put 'em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that fucker up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that shit over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the shit out of it.”
“Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that fucker. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals.”
This guy is in a zen-like state when he’s talking about this.
“Now you’re on the clock,” he continues. "After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you’re full. Don’t listen to that shit. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I’m telling you now, you’re going to get three or four pieces in and you’re gonna want to quit. You fucking can’t quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.
And if you can’t finish it, don’t you ever come back to me and tell me you can’t gain weight. 'Cause I’m gonna tell you that you don’t give a fuck about getting bigger and you don’t care how much you lift!"
Did I do it? Hell yeah. Started the next day and did it for two months. Went from 260 pounds to 297 pounds. And I didn’t get much fatter. One of the hardest things I’ve ever done in my life, though.
â?¢ I gotta go, Nate. Gotta take a piss. E-mail me if you need anything.[/quote]
This man is a freaking GENIUS![/quote]
Make up your mind already. If you can’t put your thoughts in any kind of meaningful context then why preach them so much? “Eating by the clock helped me out a lot in the beginning”, “mindset”, “dedication”… How is this supposed to help people when you stretch out a simple concept into 10 posts with pictures like people are some retards? Maybe it was a foreign concept to you back when you started out, that the reason it helped was because you ate above maintenance. And everything beyond that went to fat, no matter how frequently you ate. It’s been repeatedly hammered into your head and yet you find some bizarre ways of denying it.
And around and round it goes.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]howie424 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I’m actually not, Chris. Many people in this thread were making that claim…that they literally “ate whenever they felt like” and that this was just as good as having a regular schedule because the discipline didn’t make any difference.[/quote]
You can still get very big and very strong eating whenever you feel like it. Eating whenever you feel like it doesn’t mean eating less. You can still easily get 3-6 meals in while eating whenever you feel like it or whenever you’re hungry.
Some people NEED discipline in their lives, some people DON’T.[/quote]
Discipline is what makes the difference between someone being average and someone being well above average.
It is what keeps you in this when circumstances happen to you that could throw you off course.[/quote]
Discipline to eat above maintenance is important. Discipline to eat by the clock or frequently is not.
You do realize that the muscle building lifestyle imposes OTHER things that train discipline? Such as consistently eating similar amounts and sources of food, regular training and monitoring your strength in all the movements? Oh, but go ahead, pretend that you don’t. Again.
What level of development? The one where you take steroids on top of already above average genetics? I can’t help think otherwise, seeing how those are the ones who’s pictures you post.
If he makes sure to eat above maintenance he has the exact same chance of holding on later. You have not presented any counter evidence in 30 pages.
Yeah, that reason is eating above maintenance. It’s been known for decades. How you concluded that meal frequency was the key out of all the other variables is what everyone on this thread is wondering about.
[quote]If you disagree, fine.
You prove everyone wrong by reaching an extreme degree of development with lacking focus and discipline.[/quote]
Why won’t you do that first? You’re the one preaching this shit, so you go ahead and prove it. So far, you don’t look like the final product anyone here wants to be. So go ahead and lean out, and let’s see how you look more impressive then all those “natural white bodybuilders from the 70’s” whose measurements were used for the various charts predicting potential. We all want to witness that mythical EXTREME DEVELOPMENT you’ve been talking about. People want to know what to aspire to. Show them the way!
[quote]JBL5 wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/786x0/f/9//f9105_ORIG-Screen_shot_2013_10_05_at_18.53.17.jpg
;)[/quote]
Yeah, shit like this is real mature.[/quote]
Who are you? Since you stared posting, all you’ve done is passionately defend X with little to no idea of the context behind some of the posts on here. Rattlehead’s post was in reference to a meme thread that was very popular on here a ways back. It’s just sort of a joke amongst posters on here. I just can’t believe the number of guys on here crying foul when they have no concept of the context and background info behind certain posts.
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
[quote]JBL5 wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/786x0/f/9//f9105_ORIG-Screen_shot_2013_10_05_at_18.53.17.jpg
;)[/quote]
Yeah, shit like this is real mature.[/quote]
Who are you? Since you stared posting, all you’ve done is passionately defend X with little to no idea of the context behind some of the posts on here. Rattlehead’s post was in reference to a meme thread that was very popular on here a ways back. It’s just sort of a joke amongst posters on here. I just can’t believe the number of guys on here crying foul when they have no concept of the context and background info behind certain posts.
[/quote]
I do know the context, I’ve seen the meme thread and its pathetic, but if you guys think that’s the kind of shit that huge/muscular people do in there spare time, then have at it.
Not going to pretend like I haven’t defended X in many of my posts. I think the way some act on this site is disgraceful, and having folks who barely even look like they lift mock X because he is carrying more fat than some of you would be prepared to, or because he talks about extreme goals etc. is just silly.
[quote]Majin wrote:
You clearly support stuffing your face and force feeding. You said that in your “ask PX” thread or elsewhere many times. You vehemently supported it on page 5, then lied that you didn’t a page ago. Which is why I pointed it out by quoting you then.
[/quote]
Don’t think anyone on this site supports force feeding unless it’s necessary for getting big…if getting big is what you want. Why would anyone force feed if you don’t have to??
[quote]flch95 wrote:
[quote]Majin wrote:
You clearly support stuffing your face and force feeding. You said that in your “ask PX” thread or elsewhere many times. You vehemently supported it on page 5, then lied that you didn’t a page ago. Which is why I pointed it out by quoting you then.
[/quote]
Don’t think anyone on this site supports force feeding unless it’s necessary for getting big…if getting big is what you want. Why would anyone force feed if you don’t have to??[/quote]
Because of not knowing they didn’t have to in order to gain the same amount of muscle? Hell, I’d have no problem with it if I would see some EXTREME results. None were presented to my knowledge. And then, why lie about it?
[quote]JBL5 wrote:
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
[quote]JBL5 wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/786x0/f/9//f9105_ORIG-Screen_shot_2013_10_05_at_18.53.17.jpg
;)[/quote]
Yeah, shit like this is real mature.[/quote]
Who are you? Since you stared posting, all you’ve done is passionately defend X with little to no idea of the context behind some of the posts on here. Rattlehead’s post was in reference to a meme thread that was very popular on here a ways back. It’s just sort of a joke amongst posters on here. I just can’t believe the number of guys on here crying foul when they have no concept of the context and background info behind certain posts.
[/quote]
I do know the context, I’ve seen the meme thread and its pathetic, but if you guys think that’s the kind of shit that huge/muscular people do in there spare time, then have at it.
Not going to pretend like I haven’t defended X in many of my posts. I think the way some act on this site is disgraceful, and having folks who barely even look like they lift mock X because he is carrying more fat than some of you would be prepared to, or because he talks about extreme goals etc. is just silly.
[/quote]
And X constantly stirring up trouble and acting ignorant towards other posters just because they don’t have any desire to look like him is a disgrace as well. I happen to think the meme thread was hilarious, as did many others. It was just for fun and a way for some to blow off steam after having to deal with X’s hubris. Also, many of the posters that give X trouble the most happen to look damn good. DoubleDuce butts heads with him and he looks jacked. Stu does as well and is a professional bodybuilder. There were plenty that have left over time such as Waylander, who looks insane nowadays. So, I think your whole, “folks who barely even lift” statement falls short here. It’s just ridiculous that 98% of posters have to put up with X’s nonsense just because the other 2% might agree with him on some topics. Almost every thread he creates is about “extreme size” in this forum, when that only caters to a minute portion of posters. Why should everyone else have to deal with his attitude for that?
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
Almost every thread he creates is about PERMABULKING or FULLHOUSING in this forum, when that only caters to a minute portion of posters. Why should everyone else have to deal with his attitude for that?[/quote]
Fixed that for you.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
Almost every thread he creates is about PERMABULKING or FULLHOUSING in this forum, when that only caters to a minute portion of posters. Why should everyone else have to deal with his attitude for that?[/quote]
Fixed that for you. [/quote]
Thank you. Much obliged.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
Almost every thread he creates is about PERMABULKING or FULLHOUSING in this forum, when that only caters to a minute portion of posters. Why should everyone else have to deal with his attitude for that?[/quote]
Fixed that for you. [/quote]
It always seemed to me (and I have no doubt I’ll get jumped on for stating this) that his constant expression of “extreme goals” was simply a way of elevating himself. Insinuating that the average trainer on this site merely seeking to get huge and ripped couldn’t possibly understand what he’s going for, because he’s aiming for so much more than anyone else is. IMO it’s an excuse, and it always comes across with a negative connotation no matter how you read it (unless someone is asking in a thread about just gaining or losing a “couple of lbs” or something minor of course).
And yes, every thread turns to the same topics, those that support his approach and refute any arguments people may give him about them. He won’t phrase them that way though, instead always citing what the ‘really big’ guys have ‘all’ done, but it’s the same thread every time.
I certainly see no problem with someone holding their beliefs and acting on them if they have seen progress according to their goals, but the constant expression that it’s the optimal way and that’s why it’s been used by every individual who has achieved 'extreme" goals is not only viewed as incorrect, but it also comes across as extremely insulting to the majority of people who believe otherwise (please check any other site if you doubt this statement). Hence the general attitude (and not just on this site mind you) about one poster whereas everyone else seems to play nice despite expected disagreements.
S
