METROFLEX HOUSTON.
Maybe you guys should get out more.
[quote]gregron wrote:
Just stop guys.
You’re never going to convince the OP and he isn’t going to convince you. Let him type away and you just focus on you and not his facts. Its the same circular arguments in viryually every thread. You can’t teach and old dog new tricks.
Once you finally figure this out and ignore his baiting posts your time and experience here on T Nation will be a lot more positive.
Focus on you, kick butt in the gym and stay away from the negative mindset.[/quote]
yeah, I’m not getting any lols or knowledge out of this. Nice moustache btw.
Not sure about everyone else, but the black gentleman you just posted is clearly on AAS. Most of the people you’ve posted in this thread are. Either you are being willfully blind about this or you don’t want to discuss it. Whether you like it or not, Steroids change everything.
I like how X keeps posting pictures of guys who use in an attempt to refute something Brick said about natural bodybuilders.
METROFLEX SAN ANOTONIO
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
Not sure about everyone else, but the black gentleman you just posted is clearly on AAS. Most of the people you’ve posted in this thread are. Either you are being willfully blind about this or you don’t want to discuss it. Whether you like it or not, Steroids change everything. [/quote]
What I have learned over the years…is that guys with genetics that aren’t that great focus on steroids because they think that is what is standing in their way of being big.
Everyone in those photos is not on steroids. Steroids do not mean everyone else is only making “negligible progress at a snail’s pace” after 5 years of training.
I also posted those pictures to give an idea of what my environment is like when I train because I was told that saying “half the people in my gym” are that big was off…when it isn’t. Houston and Texas has a big bodybuilding and lifting community. If you didn’t know, now you do.
If you see weak small people ONLY around you, you will not be pushed to be the most that you can be.
You will soon believe like they do…that you can ONLY get big with steroids…and that gains “TAP OUT” after 5 good years of lifting.
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
Just stop guys.
You’re never going to convince the OP and he isn’t going to convince you. Let him type away and you just focus on you and not his facts. Its the same circular arguments in viryually every thread. You can’t teach and old dog new tricks.
Once you finally figure this out and ignore his baiting posts your time and experience here on T Nation will be a lot more positive.
Focus on you, kick butt in the gym and stay away from the negative mindset.[/quote]
yeah, I’m not getting any lols or knowledge out of this. Nice moustache btw.[/quote]
Thanks.
Ya man, lulz aren’t even being had, and I usually laugh at most of your posts 
It’s better, IMO, to focus on the positive and leave negative posters to their own devices. This place would be a lot better off if guys would stop arguing with the OP and focus their energy on helping people who actually want so input that isn’t just parroting what they wrote.
This is just my opinion after being on this site since 2006 and seeing the same threads and same arguments play out countless times with countless posters.
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
Not sure about everyone else, but the black gentleman you just posted is clearly on AAS. Most of the people you’ve posted in this thread are. Either you are being willfully blind about this or you don’t want to discuss it. Whether you like it or not, Steroids change everything. [/quote]
Don’t do it Martigan. Don’t get sucked in.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
For the most part I agree…and would put money on the guy making more frequent eating a major priority also making bodybuilding enough of his life overall to make extreme developmental progress in the long run…vs someone who eats sporadically “whenever they feel like it”.[/quote]
I think you’re changing the argument a bit. “Eating sporadically or whenever you feel like it” is not the opposite of eating frequently. If we’re doing that, then the argument could be made that people are more likely to flake out if eating becomes a chore. As in, “Fuck, my next meal is in a half hour but I’m not hungry.”
I believe it’s about simple consistency.
The guy who makes the habit of eating at 7:30am, 1:00pm, and 6:30pm, 365 days a year for five or ten years will not end up any less developed then a guy who eats every three hours, even though he “only” ate a few meals a day.
I 100% agree with this.
I don’t agree with this. Many bigger guys of today may eat several times a day, but many big old school guys ate 3 squares a day and still ended up impressive. I think it’s been mentioned before, but tripping over the exact number of meals per day is putting the focus on the wrong issue. Whichever method the individual can build their lifting lifestyle around will be the best route for them.
I 100% agree with this.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
I think you’re changing the argument a bit. [/quote]
I’m actually not, Chris. Many people in this thread were making that claim…that they literally “ate whenever they felt like” and that this was just as good as having a regular schedule because the discipline didn’t make any difference.
I know YOU didn’t make that argument. I was addressing that to the ones who did.
The argument was never about if 3 meals is better than 6.
It was about inconsistent eating patterns and FASTING because people here were writing that they only ate once a day and that the gains were the same. You may have missed some of that if you did not read the thread.
Fair enough. That’s probably what I get for skipping the last few dozen pages in here.
There’s probably not much more to add to either side at this point, so, enjoy gang.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I’m actually not, Chris. Many people in this thread were making that claim…that they literally “ate whenever they felt like” and that this was just as good as having a regular schedule because the discipline didn’t make any difference.[/quote]
You can still get very big and very strong eating whenever you feel like it. Eating whenever you feel like it doesn’t mean eating less. You can still easily get 3-6 meals in while eating whenever you feel like it or whenever you’re hungry.
Some people NEED discipline in their lives, some people DON’T.
“I was talking about the mindset all this time”, “the mentality”, “you’re more likely to see guys who…”, pics of dudes on juice, straw man arguments,“the REAL big guys”, “Why I was… back when the…”, *more pics of dudes on juice"… “Oh, it’s been 15 years and I look like nothing anyone wants to on this site, but it’s only because they can’t. Yes, that must be it”…
20 years later…
“I’m 55, time to lean out and show you all…nah, I changed my mind. I’m making so much progress, it would be a travesty to stop when the going is this good. 3lbs of new muscle. And don’t ask me how I know this.”
This thread is an embarrassment to this site. Thanks to a few posters for actually attempting a real discussion and giving me something to think about (Brick, MM, Majin, Brown, Greg).
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
This thread is an embarrassment to this site. Thanks to a few posters for actually attempting a real discussion and giving me something to think about (Brick, MM, Majin, Brown, Greg).[/quote]
Welcome. though at this point I forgot what I contributed to this thread, which shows how it has utterly confused me.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
[quote]howie424 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Holy crap.
If you guys believe all significant progress ends after only 5 years, what the hell are most of you still training for?
Why even hit the gym 6 days a week to stay stagnant?[/quote]
I’m with X on this one. I don’t believe at all that progress ends after 5 years. There are so many ways to progress. [/quote]
you can always progress, but the pace will slow down significantly. If it doesn’t, then imo that person’s training or diet was far from optimal.
I look at it as base building vs refinement [/quote]
…from all of your personal experience growing more after those 5 years?
I didn’t stop growing.
I am glad there wasn’t a “Brick” running around telling people this when I was starting out.
There would be no need for most people to even hit the gym more than 3 days a week after that 5 years if that were true.
Bro Science…really stinks up the place.[/quote]
lmfao! bro science? try actual science… https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bodyrecomposition.com%2Fmuscle-gain%2Fwhats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html&ei=vYVPUtDQCKSRigf5xIHQCg&usg=AFQjCNG5pbGMiygvVmI0hdIhjKNfNR8aDQ
these charts are based off real data taken from elite level natural bodybuilders.
STOP constantly using yourself as a fucking example. you have not been natural for your lifting career, therefore your gains in a discussion about naturals is irrelevant.
I’m all natural brahs.
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
You can only achieve so much growth as a natty over a given time - even if you accept the notion that you can continually gain for decades (I don’t), you will still only be putting on a relatively small amount of muscle in a given week/month/year. I[/quote]
Most natties with adequate and consistent nutrition and training are tapped out for growth in 5 years or so. SOME gains can be made after that, but they are negligible and come at a snail’s pace. [/quote]
Then we’re in agreement.
What do you think about gains in other areas, though, like neurological efficiency? Let’s say a natural trainee is relatively tapped out on hypertrophic gains. Do you think this hypothetical trainee could still continue to gain strength through neurological improvement?[/quote]
Yes, definitely. And some more absolute strength gains can be gotten from getting fatter as well.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Holy crap.
If you guys believe all significant progress ends after only 5 years, what the hell are most of you still training for?
Why even hit the gym 6 days a week to stay stagnant?[/quote]
For health benefits (near daily or daily exercise is pretty much a must for optimal health), to NOT LOSE the mass gained, and for fun.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Chris Smith a lifter at MetroFlex Arlington where Ronnie lives.
Yeah…if you see no one like this, you may need to change gyms…or at least understand it will affect how you perceive what you can do yourself.[/quote]
Some of us on here from New York and Long Island have been to Steel Gym, 19th Street Gym, Bev’s (where all the pros visit or lift and where a ton of videos and photographs are taken), and the Colisseum. I’ve also been to some powerlifting seminars, one being a two day workshop with 1000 pound squatter Jim Wendler.
I AGREE with you; these experiences are very beneficial to people who want to make serious gains. But again, it doesn’t change the way things go for even the best naturals.
And the “natty limits” thing has been discussed to death on here and other boards in case some posters on here don’t know where I or anyone else are coming from.
And it’s also highly unlikely that four months of dieting after 15 years of training hindered Stu’s ability to gain some LBM in a year considering only a small amount could’ve been gained in that time frame dieting, unless you refer to gains in GRAMS or OUNCES as APPRECIABLE.