Also, thanks again to the posters who contributed to make this a good discussion, TC included.
After 12 pages, I would like to see that continue.
Just for the record, I think a lot of the negative associations of insulin levels due to frequent meals can mostly be avoided through timing carbs. When eating in a surplus, keeping carbs out of meals earlier in the day allowed me to eat a bit more frequently (4 meals, maybe 5 depending on what one defines as a 'meal) without feeling as crappy along with keeping fat a bit more at bay. I feel personally that’s my ‘middle’ ground.
John Meadows and Ben Pakulski use similar strategies, if anyone needs examples of those who are pretty big who do that.
X, you ever gonna step onstage?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Px since constant elevations in insulin levels by eat very frequently doesn’t increase ones risk for beetus. What does. Please explain the pathophysiologic mechanisms for me mr biology doctor [/quote]
First, answer this for me since you are one of the ones writing many of the mistaken information we are discussing here.
Do you understand that the human body does not function on the course of only one variable?
Syndrome X and diabetes are a condition of MANY VARIABLES, not just “elevated insulin”. Your body needs that same insulin to build that muscle mass you are after.
What you are doing is the same as someone seeing that drinking too much water can kill you and then running around telling people that drinking water puts them at risk of death.[/quote]
So your answer is?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Now, hold up…first you say you doubt that anyone made a claim I was responding to…and now that you are shown to be wrong on that point, you move on to more critiques?
[/quote]
If you’re still referring to the original comments made and supported by a few others that excessive insulin spikes can [potentially] lead to pre-diabetes, then I must have missed where I was shown to be wrong.
[quote]
No offense, Stu, but it looks like you are just trying to find things to disagree with.[/quote]
Not at all, in fact I believe that I added to and elaborated quite a bit on the fact that exercise (and leaner individuals) totally changes the rules as far as potential negative effects from frequently elevated blood sugar levels.
[quote]
I am not even using myself as an example.[/quote]
I know, but when you speak as if you are representing the all encompassing group of all big guys everywhere (and without this getting nasty, I think a lot of people will agree that you have a habit of doing so), I think it has the same effect. IMO you’d be much better received if you actually did use yourself, not as the yard stick to measure everyone else against, but simply as an example of how you approached matters.
It’s not wrong, it’s just that there have been many, many ‘really big guys’ who have had very different approaches. Sadly, and I do hate to even bring this up, the real deciding factor with the really big guys, isn’t how frequently they eat. This is something that I’d like to hope that everyone can agree upon, whether they want to discuss it or not. Yes, finding the eating approach that best suits your goals is important (and an individual concern), but pretending it is the reason the top guys are at the top, and not their genetics and liberal use of chemical means of assistance is discussing something that truly isn’t even that relevant in the examples being given (ie. top level athletes and bodybuilders).
Think about it for a moment; you’ve got Shelby who has written in the past about spreading out carb feedings throughout the day, and yet you’ve also got Meadows who advocated targeted carb feedings. Additionally, I can easily quote other coaches and “gurus” who routinely work with top athletes who will side on both sides of the question as well. So what approach do ALL the really BIG GUYS use? They use what works for them and their genetics and other individual factors to their diet and training.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
If this were a cordial thread, I’d share how I still eat multiple times a day for a good number of reasons, despite all the latest hoo-ha about my not really needing to. Instead, though, I’ll just watch as it turns into the usual mess of you arguing what you really meant as others who seem to love watching the big man squirm keep poking at you, and you keep responding endlessly.
S[/quote]
Stu, this was one of your first posts in this thread. You do not seem to be a man of your word.
Several people at this point have stated they appreciate the thread topic.
If you don’t think the premise is valid, feel free to excuse yourself from the discussion.
I personally see value in exploring the possibility that insulin can aid muscle growth in some way.
These types of questions are how science progresses.
Have a great day.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Just for the record, I think a lot of the negative associations of insulin levels due to frequent meals can mostly be avoided through timing carbs. When eating in a surplus, keeping carbs out of meals earlier in the day allowed me to eat a bit more frequently (4 meals, maybe 5 depending on what one defines as a 'meal) without feeling as crappy along with keeping fat a bit more at bay. I feel personally that’s my ‘middle’ ground.
John Meadows and Ben Pakulski use similar strategies, if anyone needs examples of those who are pretty big who do that. [/quote]
Good post…or eating more carbs around workout times…but that again is about controlling and using that insulin instead of the idea that it should be avoided most of the day.
This thread sucks. Not one interesting idea or pieces of information was presented. Well, no surprise I guess.
Reg Park
Breakfast: A glass of fresh orange juiceFruit: paw-paw (papaya) & banana,
Cooked Oatmeal (large soup plate full) with full cream/whole milk & fresh cream
A plate of bacon, eggs, tomato and toast
A couple of cups of tea
Lunch: Large bowl of soup (tomato, pea, minestrone etc.) with rye bread
Cooked vegetables
Beef steak
Desert
A couple of cups of tea with some chocolate
Also wine or milk stout(like Guiness)
Supper: Same as lunch.
(Reg would consume Milk stout/Guiness as an aid when he needed to gain weight)
I’ll just leave this here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.20296/abstract
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
If this were a cordial thread, I’d share how I still eat multiple times a day for a good number of reasons, despite all the latest hoo-ha about my not really needing to. Instead, though, I’ll just watch as it turns into the usual mess of you arguing what you really meant as others who seem to love watching the big man squirm keep poking at you, and you keep responding endlessly.
S[/quote]
Stu, this was one of your first posts in this thread. You do not seem to be a man of your word.[/quote]
Are you suggesting that I’m not enjoying watching you argue the definition of every day words like “regular”? Because nothing could be further from the truth.
[quote]
Several people at this point have stated they appreciate the thread topic.[/quote]
That’s because the actual role of insulin is very important in stimulating muscle growth, anyone who has picked up a copy of M&F on a newsstand can tell you that. Having a thread on its roles and the differing interpretations of how to take advantage of it for muscle growth and fat loss would be very helpful to many people.
[quote]
If you don’t think the premise is valid, feel free to excuse yourself from the discussion.[/quote]
The premise is entirely valid. I’ve excused myself from many threads over the years, but I seem to get emails, requests in other threads and calls from the site administrators asking me to chime in (which is very complimentary as there are some very knowledgable authors on here, yet they tend to stay out of the forums for the most part), Admittedly ive always tried to be as honest as i can on here and i guess people appreciate my successes as indicating some comprehension of the game we all share a love of. Sure ive expressed disagreements wit people before, but never been given a time out for poor behavior and had to call and ask them to let me back on the site though. Must be due to my lack of “tolerance”, or maybe not being a “man of my word”
[quote]
I personally see value in exploring the possibility that insulin can aid muscle growth in some way.[/quote]
Me too. Good thing so many scientists and actual bodybuilders do as well. There’s a ton of readily accessible info out there that is pretty easy to comprehend.
I’m fairly sure that when he writes an article, Meadows presents facts, and then how he applies the knowledge in his articles instead of getting into silly spats though.
I said it earlier, why not just give some background info and talk about how You best made use of it? Everything just gets so crazy complicated.
[quote]
These types of questions are how science progresses.[/quote]
Yes they are. Of course I doubt real scientists have such difficulty presenting information and end up arguing with posters who seem relatively intelligent.
[quote]
Have a great day.[/quote]
You too. I had a lovely breakfast while answering client emails and watching the news, took the pooch to play ball, then hit the gym, running a few errands, and then having dinner with some close friends (and fellow Pro competitors)… My Life is damn good 
S
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I’ll just leave this here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.20296/abstract
[/quote]
Well, that validates the thread discussion.
so why are people mad at questions that lead to truth?
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I’ll just leave this here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.20296/abstract
[/quote]
well the goal of this thread is gaining muscle. we are not sedentary and we are not trying to reduce belly fat without doing cardio.
many people do intermittent fasting while gaining muscle if they keep protein intake high. there are many valid diet plans,
[quote]CircaThursday wrote:
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I’ll just leave this here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.20296/abstract
[/quote]
well the goal of this thread is gaining muscle. we are not sedentary and we are not trying to reduce belly fat without doing cardio.
many people do intermittent fasting while gaining muscle if they keep protein intake high. there are many valid diet plans,[/quote]
The study showed an increase in lean body mass from more frequent feedings.
In rereading my last post I feel I may have been a bit unprofessional, and as I at least always try to conduct myself well on here, I apologize to other members of the forum.
In an effort to stress as many others have tried to do as well, there is never just one way to do anything. Similarly in the case of “all the really big guys”, while there are many factors to consider, it’s not dependent on how many meals a day you eat, or how you choose to define the word “regularly”.
I’m officially leaving this thread. My suggestions to anyone still reading is that if you want to understand this better, read Meadows, Starnes, even Palumbo if you want to comprehend how 3 different experts (IMO) can take the same scientific evidence and apply it differently to get results with top level competitors and pros.
Their experiences certainly should give them quite a bit of credibility no matter whonisvreading te articles.
S
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]CircaThursday wrote:
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I’ll just leave this here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.20296/abstract
[/quote]
well the goal of this thread is gaining muscle. we are not sedentary and we are not trying to reduce belly fat without doing cardio.
many people do intermittent fasting while gaining muscle if they keep protein intake high. there are many valid diet plans,[/quote]
The study showed an increase in lean body mass from more frequent feedings.[/quote]
oh good. so would you recommend people eat 6 times a day or 3 times a day?
This is still an interesting thread professor. I am just unclear where you stand on the subject.
There really isn’t a set number of meals someone should be eating to get to their calorie goals. Anything less than 3 days is stupid though. But 6 isn’t the magical number that’s for sure. I typically do 5 meals a day and I love it. 6 meals seems like a bit of a stretch for me because I have to push one extra meal while at work.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I’ll just leave this here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.20296/abstract
[/quote]
Well, that validates the thread discussion.
so why are people mad at questions that lead to truth?
[/quote]
Just how does feeding fatsos validate anything, when their food intake was self-reported, and the differences between the 3 and 6 meal groups are barely there?
You said newbies NEED to learn to eat by the clock. But they don’t. Instead, they should learn to count calories and/or measure their food in order to make sure they’re getting enough.
There are very few natural trainees who need so much food, that they can’t fit it into 3-4 meals. Those people are not bodybuilders, but mostly skinny athletes who have an insane amount of training per week. Maybe some football players.
i still dont even get what is being argued here anymore… its well established that meal frequency is irrelevant to gains and literally it just comes down to personal preference.
also the insulin response gained from eating at certain times or certain foods has next to no impact on muscular hypertrophy. but if your an IFBB pro using massive amounts of it stacked with GH it is very effective for building muscle.
What a waste of Internet space.
I can’t believe what I am actually reading in here.
I already summed up this entire thread but ill do it again:
Everyone is different.
No two people respond the exact same way to stimulus.
Some people do better off of high carb.
Some people do better off of high fat.
Some people do better off of more frequent feedings.
Some people do better off of less frequent eating.
Figure out what works for you and your goals.
Do that.
If you’re gaining too much weight eat less/less often.
If you are losing too much weight eat more/more often.
There is no single answer that applies to all.