The Recovery Thread

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]idaho wrote:
Happy milestone birthday, Irish.

Some excellent advise here from all. I will just add some of my personal habits, since all of us train and have adopted our own routines.

  • no matter how tiring a day, either from work or training, I do at least 20 minutes of stretching at the end of the day. I have found no matter where you are, you can usually find a quiet corner to run through a routine. I basically follow my old TKD moves and if have access to a Korean BO or even a broomstick, I will run through some simple Katas, same with some Kali moves with some training blades. You can substitute pencils or pens in a hotel room. I am a very firm believer in keeping my body mobile and flexibile, since speed of movement is on the top of my list for keeping alive.

  • My supplement routine has been the same for years:

A high performance sports muti-vitamin

2000 Vitamin C, which I believe helps in reducing soreness

Fish oil

Alpa Male and ZMA from Biotest

2 plain aspirins daily. I started this treatment several years ago after helping teach a MT class 4 nights a week, around the 4th day, my elbow joints would be sore as hell from holding pads, almost like tendonitis. Since I started the aspirin routine, I have no problems.

(note: take aspirins at your own risk in a combat zone, according to general information from medics, they will hinder blood clotting–Robert could weigh in on this one)

  • Like ActivitiesGuy, I hate ice baths, but a hot shower seems to work for me. Besides, I dont have access to ice baths.

  • I have done foam rolling, but, for me, the Katas work better, I will roll around on a medicine ball if one is available.

  • I really wish I could try yoga, just to see for myself if it has any effects.

Great thread. Looking forward to learning on this one.
[/quote]

Great post Idaho. Makin do when shit’s not optimal. Good stuff.

I love that first part - kind of fits in with the shadowboxing and abs I do in the morning. No matter what’s going on or where I am, I do at least one round and 10 or 15 reps of abs. Sometimes more if I have the time or inclination, but never less. It makes me feel like I’m always working on the thing I consider most important - punching and core strength - and over the years it does add up.

You believe the katas do something similar?

22

Great idea for a thread - and happy b’day OP.

I’m 33, and really been getting into recovery the past few years and my training’s never been better. That said, I’m currently a dad of a 7 month old who wakes every hour-90 minutes right through the night so my sleep’s in the shitter - but that can’t be helped.

This is what I do:

  1. Sleep. Again, tough for me at the moment, but when my schedule allows I’m in bed by 10. Read somewhere that every hour of sleep before 12am is worth 2 after, and really found that to be true for me. Plus, no TV/computer/iPad gizmos etc 30-60 min before bed - REALLY tough, but your quality of sleep will improve immeasurably.

  2. Eat natural wholesome food (very underrated), drink 2-3 liters water daily, take basic supps (multi, D3 in winter, C, fish oils).

  3. Slow walk or swim 1-3 times a week, 20-40 min, and a full (static) stretch afterwards. Focus on breathing and ‘dumping your mind’ - relaxes your neuro-endocrine system like nothing else.

  4. Quiet time - just 10-15 min daily, with some breathing (4 sec in, 4 sec hold, 4 sec out) does wonders. Clears your mind, oxygenates your body.

  5. Trying to live ‘in the present moment’. Sounds pretty foo foo I know - but difficult to do and a good way to live your life general, not just recovery. You realise how much of your time and mental energy is wasted being ‘somewhere else’ than where you are right now - sometimes this is necessary of course, but most of the time, being in the now is the only way to be.

One thing I DON’T do is cold showers/baths - only because I simply cannot handle them. But those I know that do them swear by them - they work by driving all the blood from your limbs/extremities to your organs for warmth - essentially an ‘internal massage’. Very beneficial for recovery apparently - but what can I say, I’m a wuss!

23

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:
2 plain aspirins daily. I started this treatment several years ago after helping teach a MT class 4 nights a week, around the 4th day, my elbow joints would be sore as hell from holding pads, almost like tendonitis. Since I started the aspirin routine, I have no problems.

(note: take aspirins at your own risk in a combat zone, according to general information from medics, they will hinder blood clotting–Robert could weigh in on this one)
[/quote]

The mechanism of aspirin has me siding with the medics. Additionally there are some known issues with suddenly d/c’ing aspirin and having a “rebound” increase in both pain and platelet aggregation.

How big a deal the risk of reduced clotting post trauma works out to be is out of my lane, so I reached out to a friend of mine who is in a far better position to know. He should be calling me back after he sleeps. I will have more on this later. My initial attempts at research pulled up a bunch of data for seniors.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Hey Robert, any word on what was said? It was an interesting idea I thought. Anything to prevent inflammation! haha.

24

The above are common sense, yet undervalued.

Im a soccer player, and although I probably don’t get as knocked about as a boxer/mma fighter would, after my weekly games I can feel pretty ordinary. I used to celebrate every weeks game with pizza and copious amounts of beer, but I have quickly learnt that the 24 hours after a game is the most pivotal time in terms of recovery. A decent sleep, lots of water and some good food is in order. Pizza and beer only adds another day or two for full recovery.

tweet

25

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Melvin Smiley wrote:
I’ll be 31 next month, and it’s a high mileage 31. I agree with Sento that static stretching is good but dynamic mobility is better, and I do them in the same order he does. That seems to help, I’ve found that as I get older it’s almost like I have to warm up for my warm ups so to speak lol Hydration and SLEEP are the two major ones for me. And good sleep, not falling asleep on the couch watching a movie, like dark room comfortable position good sleep. Sleeping wrong seems to mess me up worse than a hard workout even, especially my neck. Foam rolling helps a ton, I don’t know why I don’t do more.

I’ve learned the hard way (and still seem to forget sometimes), you’re best bet at this age is to try not to get hurt rather than recover afterwards. I’m not saying don’t train hard, but make sure your body is prepared for hard training. Remember when we were teenagers and we could show up 1 minute before training started and go straight from the parking lot to the ring? Not anymore haha[/quote]

Might be worth it to check out Irish’s log.[/quote]

That’s actually pretty similar to my current warm up routine. For anyone interested, it’s on page 10 of Irish’s log. And for anyone not interested, you should be.

26

  • Accupuncture! (love it and my insurance covers it!)

  • Sauna

  • Fish Oil

  • Quality sleep

  • Better focus on nutrition

  • Motrin/Advil

  • 2 professional messages a month

  • Stretching on off days

  • Varying intensity of training

27

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

  • Accupuncture! (love it and my insurance covers it!)

  • Sauna

  • Fish Oil

  • Quality sleep

  • Better focus on nutrition

  • Motrin/Advil

  • 2 professional messages a month

  • Stretching on off days

  • Varying intensity of training[/quote]

I never tried Acupuncture before man, what’s it like? Does it help with knotted up muscles or do you do it for more relaxation purposes?

28

Recovery is something I’ve only adopted in the last three years.
Some things I find useful;

  1. Foam Rolling.
    Particularly for combat sports, kneading out the muscles of the posterior chain seems to help me significantly.
  2. Low Intensity Reovery Sessions
    I find great benefit in following my most difficult session with a low RPE recovery workout.
    Originally I used cardio machines, but find a much greater benefit from low intensity bodyweight circuits.
  3. Epsom Salts baths
    Its no secret I’m a huge fan of these; as much for chemical balance as recovery. But I do find these hugely beneficial,
    despite the very real risk of dehydrating yourself, if not being sensible.
  4. Compression Gear
    I often wear compression gear to bed after tough days. I find this particularly useful for glutes, shoulders and upper back.
  5. Meditation
    I believe that recovery is largely psychological. Am I tired or do I THINK i am tired? Do i need a break or do i WANT a break?
    Am I feeling sore, or do i THINK i SHOULD feel sore? I feel taking the time to have a little headspace and some self talk is crucial.
    Wednesday is my sticking point. After the horror of every tuesday, Wednesday is the point where my head wants to give a break.
    If i take that break it is very difficult to ramp up Thursday, before the scheduled rest of the weekend. Its important I keep my RPE high
    on the Wednesday; so a bit of discussion inside my think box is essential.
  6. Sleep
    This is No.1.
  7. Nutrition
    My weak area. I am not qualified even to give an opinion here.
29

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:
2 plain aspirins daily. I started this treatment several years ago after helping teach a MT class 4 nights a week, around the 4th day, my elbow joints would be sore as hell from holding pads, almost like tendonitis. Since I started the aspirin routine, I have no problems.

(note: take aspirins at your own risk in a combat zone, according to general information from medics, they will hinder blood clotting–Robert could weigh in on this one)
[/quote]

The mechanism of aspirin has me siding with the medics. Additionally there are some known issues with suddenly d/c’ing aspirin and having a “rebound” increase in both pain and platelet aggregation.

How big a deal the risk of reduced clotting post trauma works out to be is out of my lane, so I reached out to a friend of mine who is in a far better position to know. He should be calling me back after he sleeps. I will have more on this later. My initial attempts at research pulled up a bunch of data for seniors.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Hey Robert, any word on what was said? It was an interesting idea I thought. Anything to prevent inflammation! haha.[/quote]

Sorry I was slow getting back to this.

I talked to my friend. First usual disclaimers:

The following should not be taken as a substitute for actual, medical advice. It is not specific to any individual and is offered for information/discussion only. I am not YOUR doctor.

RE: Aspirin

It should be noted that my friend is an ER Physician, but his clinical experience has him managing far more unrestrained driver, motorcycle accident, or farming/industrial accidents than multiple GSW’s or the combined over pressure/burn/shrapnal damage from explosives that are associated with idaho’s A.O.

First, he confirmed what we all already know. There are good reasons for the general advice to avoid aspirin pre surgery, or the cautions idaho received from the combat medics. It is a blood thinner, and acts as such.

What he was able to say was that he hasn’t seen any cases where he felt pre trauma aspirin use was the deciding factor in mortality. If you had a choice of taking aspirin or not prior to having a subarachnoid haemorrhage than the obvious answer is don’t. He mentioned that there have been multiple instances where it shows up in the history for fatal bleeds, but that it is impossible to prove it was the decisive component, especially with combat age (I specified age 20-40 when we talked) patients.

My friend did note that pre trauma use of blood thinners does coralate to greater internal bleeding post trauma. He stated that the most definite correlation was that patients on aspirin seem to require the fully alloted(protocol) time of compression to stop bleeding from surface injuries, most folks get it done in half time (difference between 10 and 20 minutes).

He confirmed the general advice that if you know you are in the “bruise easily” or “take forever for shaving cuts to stop bleeding” category when “on” that is a indicator that you may experience worse outcomes.

He stated that none of this was at a 1:1 correlation and there could likely be other more important factors, many of these are going to depend on individual medical and social history.

So, it comes down to do you bruise easily, do the risks of suffering trauma overide the risks associated with not being recovered or able to train as hard, ect.?

In any event I will state that having access to a “blow out” kit and combat tourniquet is a very, very good idea if risk of injury is at all likely. Hint to idaho and any resident LEO’s reading. Buy some, and carry some. Yes they cost money. Yes you have to read the instructions/practice putting them on. No you will probably never need them. That didn’t keep you from buying condoms in junior high school, don’t let it stop you here.

Regards,

Robert A

30

[quote]Melvin Smiley wrote:
That’s actually pretty similar to my current warm up routine. For anyone interested, it’s on page 10 of Irish’s log. And for anyone not interested, you should be.
[/quote]

Not surprised you are already doing something similar. All I really did was sort of formalize what all of us know we “should” be doing.

31

[quote]Melvin Smiley wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Melvin Smiley wrote:
I’ll be 31 next month, and it’s a high mileage 31. I agree with Sento that static stretching is good but dynamic mobility is better, and I do them in the same order he does. That seems to help, I’ve found that as I get older it’s almost like I have to warm up for my warm ups so to speak lol Hydration and SLEEP are the two major ones for me. And good sleep, not falling asleep on the couch watching a movie, like dark room comfortable position good sleep. Sleeping wrong seems to mess me up worse than a hard workout even, especially my neck. Foam rolling helps a ton, I don’t know why I don’t do more.

I’ve learned the hard way (and still seem to forget sometimes), you’re best bet at this age is to try not to get hurt rather than recover afterwards. I’m not saying don’t train hard, but make sure your body is prepared for hard training. Remember when we were teenagers and we could show up 1 minute before training started and go straight from the parking lot to the ring? Not anymore haha[/quote]

Might be worth it to check out Irish’s log.[/quote]

That’s actually pretty similar to my current warm up routine. For anyone interested, it’s on page 10 of Irish’s log. And for anyone not interested, you should be.
[/quote]

It’s one of the best things I’ve gotten from the site.

Currently, before every workout, I do DeFranco’s upper body foam rolling/stretching:

Also, I have taken Robert’s suggestion about getting more specific - generally I do 3 sets of 10 pushups, 3 pullups, and 10 goblet squats done in circuit fashion.

It has benefited me immensely. I do, however, have to begin working in my band work for my shoulder more regularly. That’s going to be an after-workout thing.

Also, I’m beginning to stretch more frequently afterwards, or during the day, especially my hamstrings and calves, which are very, very tight.

32

[quote]justrob wrote:
Great idea for a thread - and happy b’day OP.

I’m 33, and really been getting into recovery the past few years and my training’s never been better. That said, I’m currently a dad of a 7 month old who wakes every hour-90 minutes right through the night so my sleep’s in the shitter - but that can’t be helped.

This is what I do:

  1. Sleep. Again, tough for me at the moment, but when my schedule allows I’m in bed by 10. Read somewhere that every hour of sleep before 12am is worth 2 after, and really found that to be true for me. Plus, no TV/computer/iPad gizmos etc 30-60 min before bed - REALLY tough, but your quality of sleep will improve immeasurably.

  2. Eat natural wholesome food (very underrated), drink 2-3 liters water daily, take basic supps (multi, D3 in winter, C, fish oils).

  3. Slow walk or swim 1-3 times a week, 20-40 min, and a full (static) stretch afterwards. Focus on breathing and ‘dumping your mind’ - relaxes your neuro-endocrine system like nothing else.

  4. Quiet time - just 10-15 min daily, with some breathing (4 sec in, 4 sec hold, 4 sec out) does wonders. Clears your mind, oxygenates your body.

  5. Trying to live ‘in the present moment’. Sounds pretty foo foo I know - but difficult to do and a good way to live your life general, not just recovery. You realise how much of your time and mental energy is wasted being ‘somewhere else’ than where you are right now - sometimes this is necessary of course, but most of the time, being in the now is the only way to be.

One thing I DON’T do is cold showers/baths - only because I simply cannot handle them. But those I know that do them swear by them - they work by driving all the blood from your limbs/extremities to your organs for warmth - essentially an ‘internal massage’. Very beneficial for recovery apparently - but what can I say, I’m a wuss![/quote]

Man, this is like a list of the shit that I’ve begun doing. I don’t have your responsibilities, of course, so it’s easier for me to sleep, but the rest is all stuff that, although New-Agey and bullshitty, is actually working out kinda well.

That concept of a slow walk every week, or every few days if possible, does wonders for everything - aside from the benefits it does have for your mind, I think it raises my metabolism as well. I’m a big fan of those.

One website I like also, if you dig that “living in the moment” concept and the idea of trying to enjoy the time you have and quiet your mind is zenhabits.net. It’s excellent.

33

[quote]law8 wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

  • Accupuncture! (love it and my insurance covers it!)

  • Sauna

  • Fish Oil

  • Quality sleep

  • Better focus on nutrition

  • Motrin/Advil

  • 2 professional messages a month

  • Stretching on off days

  • Varying intensity of training[/quote]

I never tried Acupuncture before man, what’s it like? Does it help with knotted up muscles or do you do it for more relaxation purposes?[/quote]

I do it for my migraine headaches (officially for my insurance), but the relaxation/circulation/relief of soreness and tightness is amazing. I was skeptical at first, but very relaxing.

34

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:
2 plain aspirins daily. I started this treatment several years ago after helping teach a MT class 4 nights a week, around the 4th day, my elbow joints would be sore as hell from holding pads, almost like tendonitis. Since I started the aspirin routine, I have no problems.

(note: take aspirins at your own risk in a combat zone, according to general information from medics, they will hinder blood clotting–Robert could weigh in on this one)
[/quote]

The mechanism of aspirin has me siding with the medics. Additionally there are some known issues with suddenly d/c’ing aspirin and having a “rebound” increase in both pain and platelet aggregation.

How big a deal the risk of reduced clotting post trauma works out to be is out of my lane, so I reached out to a friend of mine who is in a far better position to know. He should be calling me back after he sleeps. I will have more on this later. My initial attempts at research pulled up a bunch of data for seniors.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Hey Robert, any word on what was said? It was an interesting idea I thought. Anything to prevent inflammation! haha.[/quote]

Sorry I was slow getting back to this.

I talked to my friend. First usual disclaimers:

The following should not be taken as a substitute for actual, medical advice. It is not specific to any individual and is offered for information/discussion only. I am not YOUR doctor.

RE: Aspirin

It should be noted that my friend is an ER Physician, but his clinical experience has him managing far more unrestrained driver, motorcycle accident, or farming/industrial accidents than multiple GSW’s or the combined over pressure/burn/shrapnal damage from explosives that are associated with idaho’s A.O.

First, he confirmed what we all already know. There are good reasons for the general advice to avoid aspirin pre surgery, or the cautions idaho received from the combat medics. It is a blood thinner, and acts as such.

What he was able to say was that he hasn’t seen any cases where he felt pre trauma aspirin use was the deciding factor in mortality. If you had a choice of taking aspirin or not prior to having a subarachnoid haemorrhage than the obvious answer is don’t. He mentioned that there have been multiple instances where it shows up in the history for fatal bleeds, but that it is impossible to prove it was the decisive component, especially with combat age (I specified age 20-40 when we talked) patients.

My friend did note that pre trauma use of blood thinners does coralate to greater internal bleeding post trauma. He stated that the most definite correlation was that patients on aspirin seem to require the fully alloted(protocol) time of compression to stop bleeding from surface injuries, most folks get it done in half time (difference between 10 and 20 minutes).

He confirmed the general advice that if you know you are in the “bruise easily” or “take forever for shaving cuts to stop bleeding” category when “on” that is a indicator that you may experience worse outcomes.

He stated that none of this was at a 1:1 correlation and there could likely be other more important factors, many of these are going to depend on individual medical and social history.

So, it comes down to do you bruise easily, do the risks of suffering trauma overide the risks associated with not being recovered or able to train as hard, ect.?

In any event I will state that having access to a “blow out” kit and combat tourniquet is a very, very good idea if risk of injury is at all likely. Hint to idaho and any resident LEO’s reading. Buy some, and carry some. Yes they cost money. Yes you have to read the instructions/practice putting them on. No you will probably never need them. That didn’t keep you from buying condoms in junior high school, don’t let it stop you here.

Regards,

Robert A
[/quote]

Robert,
Thank you for information. I know taking the two aspirins a day is probably more of a placebo than anything, but, it does seem to help with inflammation.

35

I’m kind of surprised at the unconventional nature of some of these things, but it’s awesome. I’m glad that Donny shared his meditation experiences, and I kinda have got into that recently as well.

How does everyone do that? Any favorite links to good guided meditations, or you dudes doing it on your own?

And acupuncture… who would have thought haha. I’m curious about it though … never did it, but I don’t want to discount some of the older practices like that just because of where they come from or what they say they do. I am a believer in science, but when it comes to de-stressing or making oneself feel better, I think that science is behind the curve…

36

Apologies if this is a stupid question; what are everyone thoughts on ibuprofen use to aid recovery?

For example, after a sporting event which may result in sore and tired muscles and joints, a few strains and a couple of bumps, would ibuprofen aid in recovery?

tweet

37

[quote]Robert A wrote:

I have posted multiple times that KMC’s thread should be required reading.
[[/quote]

He does make sense from time to time

Is there a particular way you use these? I’m curious what the benefits are.

[/quote]

Yes- I used to use them after long road work
or a long week and yes for weight cutting.
fill up a tub hot as you can stand dump in the salts
sit in for as long as you can.

it seems to really help with muslce soreness- DOMS
or just when I feel particularly banged up.

[quote]some things I have found over the year that help
staying hydrated
[/quote]

[quote]I agree. I have learned this the hard way, but over the last year or so, I’ve been drinking shitloads of water and it helps like CRAZY.
[/quote]

back in college - I think I ran all the time - no water.
I also cut allot of weight - always felt dry and seemed to get injured alot
( I also had a massive training volume vs these days)
last 10 or more years I see people lugging water bottles around
all the time and people advocating consuming well over a gallon of water a day.

well- I found drinking between a gallon or two a day-
I had less joint pain
slept better
had better skin
and always seemed much more alert.

38

Acupuncture is great if you get it from a good practitioner who actually knows how to address whatever issue you’re having.

That’s the issue. You need people who actually do it well. The very fact that it’s inexact makes it not a science.

Same with chiro. I went to a chiro for a couple of months cause my parent’s insurance covered it. I ignored the man’s more fanciful claims, but the shit he did to my back really did make it feel better and I felt straighter as long as I got it.

39

[quote]idaho wrote:
Robert,
Thank you for information. I know taking the two aspirins a day is probably more of a placebo than anything, but, it does seem to help with inflammation.
[/quote]

No problem. I just try to earn my keep around here.

As for placebo, two standard strength aspirin tablets is 650mg( 2 X 325mg). Doses as low as 81mg daily are often prescribed for managing cardiac issues. So you are taking 800% more than a dose that is associated with repeatable and quantifiable physiological effects.

So there might could be more goin on there than just what you conjure up in your head.

Here is a brief write up/patient education piece from the Mayo Clinic. It focuses on cardiac, but talks about dose, combined use with NSAIDS, and going off or on aspirin therapy and is a short read. Might be of interest.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/daily-aspirin-therapy/art-20046797?pg=1

Regards,

Robert A

40

[quote]theBird wrote:
Apologies if this is a stupid question; what are everyone thoughts on ibuprofen use to aid recovery?

For example, after a sporting event which may result in sore and tired muscles and joints, a few strains and a couple of bumps, would ibuprofen aid in recovery?

tweet[/quote]

Disclaimer: Non of this should be interpreted as, or used as a substitute for actual medical advice taylored to your history and needs. I am not YOUR doctor. It is offered as general information.

NSAIDS such as ibuprofen are very commonly used and are considered pretty safe drugs. That being said they do have actual risks associated with them. There is a fairly strong link between continued, daily NSAID use and increased incidence of GI bleeds. Some GI bleed can be fatal. So anyone who uses NSAIDS daily, or more often than not, should at least be cognizant of gross obvious blood in the toilet bowl (or even on the toilet paper) or dark tarry stools. Even non life threatening GI bleeds can bring problems of anemia and other complications.

Additionally there is research indicating that the mechanism of action for NSAIDS blunts inflamation in a way that limits hypertrophy/adaptation.

So, my advice would be to consider what it is you are trying to recover from, and is the juice worth the squeeze? I would be hesitant to make them a part of a daily regimen both because of risks/side effects and because they might blunt some of the adaptive response your training is trying to trigger. On the other hand if you are using them to recover from a legitimate injury, or to increase performance in a given activity (Game Day or if you are in idaho’s situation and any day could be the last game) than you may consider them well worth the risk depending on your situation.

SHORT ANSWER:
As a way of mediating training soreness, they don’t get my panties wet. As a way of managing “hurt” or “injured”, my thighs might get a bit warm and sweaty.

Regards,

Robert A