The Real Victims of Katrina

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
245

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Because I didn’t see them making demands from the Federal treasury. Did they? Did they demand that the Federal government rebuild the towers?

[/quote]

You must not have been paying attention then.

As for the Towers, were they not covered by insurance? A little different than an entire city and region would’nt you say?

And FWIW, per sqaure mile of damage caused in 9/11, there has been 10x the dollar amount spent when compared to damage caused by Katrina. I guess “you guyz” do hate us in the South.

246

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
They didn’t ask, they shreiked, all over national TV. They demanded their booty. Where you been, under a rock?

I demand booty too.

Good one, Prof! It is interesting how the meaning of words changes. One of my students once called me a ‘Pimp’. He saw that I was getting angry and explained the meaning to me.

Now, their calling me ‘Dad’…whatever the hell the hidden meaning is there, I can’t guess.

You clearly are so out of popular culture that it even distances you from people you interact with daily. That isn’t exactly something to be proud of. Who the fuck since the 1800’s uses “booty” in terms of money aside from pirates?
[/quote]

Arghhh!

247

What’s truly sad is I just dropped off one of my employees. She rides with me 3 hours everyday to go to work. I dropped her off tonight and she was crying because she lost her home to the flood and her and her husband live in a tent behind her house.

Wait it gets worse, they don’t have electricity and only a few clothes that were given to them by a out of state church. Think that’s bad, well it’s thunderstorms tonight and will be in the 40’s. I’m sure the tent leaks.

I begged her to come home with me and sleep in my daughter’s room. Her and her husbands pride is too much to do so. She had home owner’s insurance but no flood insurance. Why? Her house isn’t in a flood zone and on her wages she could barely afford the small house.

She’s no criminal. She’s active in her church and takes time from work each year to teach at vacation bible school. Her MFing christmas tree is a pine branch! Insurance companies are fighting her tooth and nail to pay her.

She applied for a SBA loan but they say it’s going to be at least 90 days before they review the loan and then longer to loan her money pending approval.

Estimates are that thousands of people are going to sleep tonight in a tent because the 2 Hurricanes devistated their property. While the Hurricanes are becoming a political football American citizens are suffering big time.

The former mayor of Atlanta proposed that Louisiana seek Foreign Aid from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia because the U.S. has let the state down. Some of the more irrational people are calling for succesion from the U.S. so that we can charge tariffs on all of the imported goods (thing crude oil and South American trade) coming into the many ports in Louisiana.

This is America damnit! We’re building infrastructure in Iraq and letting the Southeast United States rot.

However Headhunter is the real victim.

248

Thanks Rhino.

I suppose HH is still whining about the five dollars of his taxes going to storm victims, though? Are we done complaining yet, or do we need another time out?

249

[quote]RHINO928 wrote:
What’s truly sad is I just dropped off one of my employees. She rides with me 3 hours everyday to go to work. I dropped her off tonight and she was crying because she lost her home to the flood and her and her husband live in a tent behind her house.

Wait it gets worse, they don’t have electricity and only a few clothes that were given to them by a out of state church. Think that’s bad, well it’s thunderstorms tonight and will be in the 40’s. I’m sure the tent leaks.

I begged her to come home with me and sleep in my daughter’s room. Her and her husbands pride is too much to do so. She had home owner’s insurance but no flood insurance. Why? Her house isn’t in a flood zone and on her wages she could barely afford the small house.

She’s no criminal. She’s active in her church and takes time from work each year to teach at vacation bible school. Her MFing christmas tree is a pine branch! Insurance companies are fighting her tooth and nail to pay her.

She applied for a SBA loan but they say it’s going to be at least 90 days before they review the loan and then longer to loan her money pending approval.

Estimates are that thousands of people are going to sleep tonight in a tent because the 2 Hurricanes devistated their property. While the Hurricanes are becoming a political football American citizens are suffering big time.

The former mayor of Atlanta proposed that Louisiana seek Foreign Aid from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia because the U.S. has let the state down. Some of the more irrational people are calling for succesion from the U.S. so that we can charge tariffs on all of the imported goods (thing crude oil and South American trade) coming into the many ports in Louisiana.

This is America damnit! We’re building infrastructure in Iraq and letting the Southeast United States rot.

However Headhunter is the real victim.

[/quote]

Man, I’m so sorry! It’s my job to rebuild a stranger’s life and I’m slacking!! Shameful!!

Hello! Nashville, Atlanta, Denver, Austin, … there’s an endless list of wonderful places to live in America, hell even Cleveland (go Browns!). She rides 3 hours each way to work and lives in a tent? Instead of offering her a room, how about a bus ticket?

Isn’t it amazing how someone will wallow in the mud and cry, expecting others to come and rebuild their city for them?

The ocean wants its land back! Give it up and get the hell out of there!

“Pity makes suffering contagious.”
— Aristotle

250

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Thanks Rhino.

I suppose HH is still whining about the five dollars of his taxes going to storm victims, though? Are we done complaining yet, or do we need another time out?[/quote]

Beyond hope. He thinks its about pennies and not principles. Sigh…

251

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
Thanks Rhino.

I suppose HH is still whining about the five dollars of his taxes going to storm victims, though? Are we done complaining yet, or do we need another time out?

Beyond hope. He thinks its about pennies and not principles. Sigh…
[/quote]

So, you are thinking of principles when you say, sorry folks, but the rest of us Americans are too busy being individuals to help you out so you’ll just have to up and move. I think you’ve spent to much time reading Rand and I think you’ve misunderstood the Federalist papers. Nothing in it about fucking your fellow man over in there.

Why are you not upset about billions of our tax money (that was, you know, forced out of your pocket) being spent on that giant clusterfuck in Iraq? What is it about rebuilding New Orleans that bugs you so much? Would you try to rebuild or would you just up and bail if your city was destroyed? Do you think you might need a little help from the government or would you turn it down, being the personally responsible individual you are?

I understand your objection to taxation, just not your problem with New Orleans.

252

Rhino,

Can we agree that the feds are a bunch of fuck-ups?

(1) They fucked up the levees.

(2) They fucked up the relief efforts.

Now, if that’s the case, you of all people should agree with me. Make funding the government voluntary. If they are a bunch of fuck-ups, cut their pay. Why continue to support a system that, by your own words and measure, is a piece of shit?

I have a lot of sympathy for the refugees, like your employee. But if you are waiting for a bunch of legalized, subsidized looters to come to yours and her rescue, it’s going to be one long wait.

Maybe Prof X will help you. He’s full of ‘ideas’.

253

[quote]WMD wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
Thanks Rhino.

I suppose HH is still whining about the five dollars of his taxes going to storm victims, though? Are we done complaining yet, or do we need another time out?

Beyond hope. He thinks its about pennies and not principles. Sigh…

So, you are thinking of principles when you say, sorry folks, but the rest of us Americans are too busy being individuals to help you out so you’ll just have to up and move. I think you’ve spent to much time reading Rand and I think you’ve misunderstood the Federalist papers. Nothing in it about fucking your fellow man over in there.

Why are you not upset about billions of our tax money (that was, you know, forced out of your pocket) being spent on that giant clusterfuck in Iraq? What is it about rebuilding New Orleans that bugs you so much? Would you try to rebuild or would you just up and bail if your city was destroyed? Do you think you might need a little help from the government or would you turn it down, being the personally responsible individual you are?

I understand your objection to taxation, just not your problem with New Orleans.[/quote]

It’s an example. Also, I’ve said repeatedly to help your fellow man. But it should not be done with tax dollars – those are not meant for that purpose. Tax dollars are extortion money. How can there be such a thing as ‘forced charity’? It’s a contradiction in terms.

Can’t you understand the difference?

254

[quote]RHINO928 wrote:
What’s truly sad is I just dropped off one of my employees. She rides with me 3 hours everyday to go to work. I dropped her off tonight and she was crying because she lost her home to the flood and her and her husband live in a tent behind her house.

Wait it gets worse, they don’t have electricity and only a few clothes that were given to them by a out of state church. Think that’s bad, well it’s thunderstorms tonight and will be in the 40’s. I’m sure the tent leaks.

I begged her to come home with me and sleep in my daughter’s room. Her and her husbands pride is too much to do so. She had home owner’s insurance but no flood insurance. Why? Her house isn’t in a flood zone and on her wages she could barely afford the small house.

She’s no criminal. She’s active in her church and takes time from work each year to teach at vacation bible school. Her MFing christmas tree is a pine branch! Insurance companies are fighting her tooth and nail to pay her.

She applied for a SBA loan but they say it’s going to be at least 90 days before they review the loan and then longer to loan her money pending approval.

Estimates are that thousands of people are going to sleep tonight in a tent because the 2 Hurricanes devistated their property. While the Hurricanes are becoming a political football American citizens are suffering big time.

The former mayor of Atlanta proposed that Louisiana seek Foreign Aid from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia because the U.S. has let the state down. Some of the more irrational people are calling for succesion from the U.S. so that we can charge tariffs on all of the imported goods (thing crude oil and South American trade) coming into the many ports in Louisiana.

This is America damnit! We’re building infrastructure in Iraq and letting the Southeast United States rot.

However Headhunter is the real victim.

[/quote]

Why does she stay?

I admire he strong ethic but I wonder if it is misplaced.

255

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

Why does she stay?

I admire he strong ethic but I wonder if it is misplaced.[/quote]

What would leaving accomplish?

How can she leave?

She lost everything except for her job. Also, she has to be here to deal with the insurance company, FEMA etc.

I don’t think people really have a inclination of what loosing everything really means.

256

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Rhino,

Can we agree that the feds are a bunch of fuck-ups?

(1) They fucked up the levees.

(2) They fucked up the relief efforts.

Now, if that’s the case, you of all people should agree with me. Make funding the government voluntary. If they are a bunch of fuck-ups, cut their pay. Why continue to support a system that, by your own words and measure, is a piece of shit?

I have a lot of sympathy for the refugees, like your employee. But if you are waiting for a bunch of legalized, subsidized looters to come to yours and her rescue, it’s going to be one long wait.

.[/quote]

Our Fed, State, Local are all fucked up. So in prinicple we agree. However that does not relieve them of resopnsibility. Saddly enough, all responsibility of the government in theory shifts back to you and I, the taxpayer.

While I would love to also see tax reform, this issue hits close to home and New Orleans needs the pressure of the American people to do the right thing.

Not say fuck New Orleans.

258

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
WMD wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
Thanks Rhino.

I suppose HH is still whining about the five dollars of his taxes going to storm victims, though? Are we done complaining yet, or do we need another time out?

Beyond hope. He thinks its about pennies and not principles. Sigh…

So, you are thinking of principles when you say, sorry folks, but the rest of us Americans are too busy being individuals to help you out so you’ll just have to up and move. I think you’ve spent to much time reading Rand and I think you’ve misunderstood the Federalist papers. Nothing in it about fucking your fellow man over in there.

Why are you not upset about billions of our tax money (that was, you know, forced out of your pocket) being spent on that giant clusterfuck in Iraq? What is it about rebuilding New Orleans that bugs you so much? Would you try to rebuild or would you just up and bail if your city was destroyed? Do you think you might need a little help from the government or would you turn it down, being the personally responsible individual you are?

I understand your objection to taxation, just not your problem with New Orleans.

It’s an example. Also, I’ve said repeatedly to help your fellow man. But it should not be done with tax dollars – those are not meant for that purpose. Tax dollars are extortion money. How can there be such a thing as ‘forced charity’? It’s a contradiction in terms.

Can’t you understand the difference?

If thats how you want to look at it, then fine. But you have not answered the question of Iraq- billions are being dumped there- but you have a problem with the Katrina aid?

No, it isn’t just an example- if it was, you would agree that the war in Iraq was wrong, if only based on your skewed moral values. So whats the deal?

Not too mention that taxes pay civil servants, government officials, and the cops. So as long as you aren’t going to call the cops when someone breaks into your house, being as they are paid with money robbed right from your coffers, then its ok. But you say one thing, then literally live another way. Whats the deal?
[/quote]

First, thanks for speaking with respect. I will answer in the same way.

In my philosophy (which is really Rand’s), you only pay for the things you agree are moral and correct. Want to fund police, firefighters, schools and so forth? How about earmarking some of the tax money you pay for those worthwhile things? Think a war is unjust? Cut back on your fed contribution. (BTW: want to stop governments from engaging in unjust wars? Hit 'em in their pay envelope. They will only go to war if you let 'em.) If this sounds awfully complicated to implement, think about it next April 14th.

You should agree with me on these things. You think we’re headed for a police state? Cut their funding. You think the war is unjust? Go to your employment office and reduce your fed contribution (under my plan). You have to bust your ass and perform well to get paid. Why should they get a free paycheck forced out of you and me? Rather than complain about our descent into fascism, stop it by taking back your government.

They can’t do things w/o your consent if you hold the pursestrings.

259

[quote]RHINO928 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Why does she stay?

I admire he strong ethic but I wonder if it is misplaced.

What would leaving accomplish?

How can she leave?

She lost everything except for her job. Also, she has to be here to deal with the insurance company, FEMA etc.

I don’t think people really have a inclination of what loosing everything really means.
[/quote]

Get on a bus, go somewhere else.

Get a job elsewhere.

Use the phone to deal with FEMA and the insurance company.

There is an article in the paper every week about the various church groups in the area that have helped people relocate up here.

There are literaly thousands of places she could go and improve her standard of living.

260

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
RHINO928 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Why does she stay?

I admire he strong ethic but I wonder if it is misplaced.

What would leaving accomplish?

How can she leave?

She lost everything except for her job. Also, she has to be here to deal with the insurance company, FEMA etc.

I don’t think people really have a inclination of what loosing everything really means.

Get on a bus, go somewhere else.

Get a job elsewhere.

Use the phone to deal with FEMA and the insurance company.

There is an article in the paper every week about the various church groups in the area that have helped people relocate up here.

There are literaly thousands of places she could go and improve her standard of living.[/quote]

When you have jack squat, how is going somwhere else suddenly going to make things better? There are church groups trying to help here. AFAIK, the American Red Cross has received OVER 200mill and only allocated 35mill to Katrina/Rita efforts so far. Why can’t she get that help right where she is? She has other effected family members here also, parents, brother etc. Picking up and leaving is not the viable option. I respect and appreciate your comment and concern so in no way is this an insult. But it’s kind of like you are making a mole hill out of a mountain. Running away from reality is only easy at first. Long term it’s not always the viable solution.

262

FI,

If you look at the history of the 3rd Reich, you will see how easily the Nazis dealt with unions. Because the power of the individual was concentrated at the union level (and unions in Weimar were powerful) instead of in each person’s hands, the Nazis simply invaded and occupied each union headquarters and confiscated their funds. Individuals were then truly left powerless.

What I dislike about empowering any organisation (union, government, whatever) over the individual is that this becomes a magnet for those who enjoy wielding power over others. Look at Hoffa, as an example.

Now, as for Iraq. It is my opinion that 87 billion went there as opposed to 3 billion for NO because the middle east represents much more of a threat to our existence; but not in the way you might think. You see, the US is the hegemonic power. If the world perceives that we are unwilling/unable to police the world, the world will swiftly fall into chaos. Look what happened between when Britain fell (1918) and the US took over (1945). Our leaders are absolutely terrified of something like that happening again. I think they are justified in that opinion. Do you want to live in a world similar to that era? Not me, bro.

BTW: If the US falters and we do have chaos, guess what we’ll all trade in to prevent WWIII. Whatever remains of our freedom?

264

[quote]RHINO928 wrote:
…

When you have jack squat, how is going somwhere else suddenly going to make things better? There are church groups trying to help here. AFAIK, the American Red Cross has received OVER 200mill and only allocated 35mill to Katrina/Rita efforts so far. Why can’t she get that help right where she is? She has other effected family members here also, parents, brother etc. Picking up and leaving is not the viable option. I respect and appreciate your comment and concern so in no way is this an insult. But it’s kind of like you are making a mole hill out of a mountain. Running away from reality is only easy at first. Long term it’s not always the viable solution.[/quote]

I am not sure what her skills are but moving and starting over is a very viable option for many. There are many groups and churches that help with placement and job searches.

I am not sure what kind of home and property she owns or why she feels tied to the area. I am sure every case is unique.

For her sake I hope that her decision to stay is not made out of stubborness but is and informed decision.

I also hope that the people that stick around and sacrifice come out ahead in the New New Orleans.

265

FI,

I have heard of London’s Iron Heel but not read it (though Call of the Wild was a hs favorite). I will read it over Christmas break.

The workers in Weimar DID go on general strike to halt the Kapp putsch. They were probably too terrified of the Nazis to try the same then – too bad, the world might have been saved a lot of misery and my old man might have got to skip Omaha beach.

(Before he died, he went to see Saving Private Ryan with me and my brothers. I’d never seen him weep like that. I’ll never forgive myself for putting him through that.)

267

"This rhetoric was already aired in the Vietnam era. We opposed the greatest fascist evil in the world with a policy of containment, and they fell. Saddam would have been the same way- especially after he died (which was probably not far off). "

You do realize that defeating the Soviet Union by acknowledging the threat and taking the steps to counter it was the cornerstone of Neconservative thought.

Now as to this business about Unions. I’ll dissent. The historical references are interesting but a bit of stretch. Equality of opportuinity is a much more powerful economic engine then equality of outcome. Not even allowing someone to compete for a job, unless they join a protected class and are taxed for the opportunity, is not about freedom.

In my lifetime the Democratic party went from a fairly mainstream party with both liberal and conservative components to it’s present form. Change comes from within. Real change in politics comes from a groundswell of support. Revolution, for the reasons you stated, will soon run out of steam and ideas and all of a sudden those passionate ideals don’t sound like such a good idea when the business of government is at hand. Cuba is a great example.

Bye the way. I have been active in New Orleans reconstruction thru my business. Lot’s of people are. New Orleans will be rebuilt. The people are stubborn and that stubborness will see them thru. They also have a lot of pride. They’ll need that too. Lot’s of difficult times ahead. I’ve even changed my opinion on Nagen. I thought he was a tool, now I see him as a crafty politician. He’s working the system instead of going down in flames. Hopefull the governor will follow his lead.

I think the future of NOLA lies in a combination of emergency aid, Tax incentives to lure business back. Abatements to lure residents back and good public policy with regards to rebuilding nieghborhoods. A lot of what is left cannot be saved. What they build to replace it is up to the locals. what they decide to build will fetermine the future of the city for generations.

I will symapthize with all of the local La. residents who posted. You have never seen anything like the destruction Katrina and Rita brought. Not helping them is not an option, in my opinion, no other way to do it wiithout the fed.

268

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
RHINO928 wrote:
…

When you have jack squat, how is going somwhere else suddenly going to make things better? There are church groups trying to help here. AFAIK, the American Red Cross has received OVER 200mill and only allocated 35mill to Katrina/Rita efforts so far. Why can’t she get that help right where she is? She has other effected family members here also, parents, brother etc. Picking up and leaving is not the viable option. I respect and appreciate your comment and concern so in no way is this an insult. But it’s kind of like you are making a mole hill out of a mountain. Running away from reality is only easy at first. Long term it’s not always the viable solution.

I am not sure what her skills are but moving and starting over is a very viable option for many. There are many groups and churches that help with placement and job searches.

I am not sure what kind of home and property she owns or why she feels tied to the area. I am sure every case is unique.

For her sake I hope that her decision to stay is not made out of stubborness but is and informed decision.

I also hope that the people that stick around and sacrifice come out ahead in the New New Orleans.[/quote]

I’ve seen the homeless and rich move and relocate. I’m fairly certain the people in between can do so as well. Reconstruction from Hurricane Ivan (filed under storms no one gives a shit about) is also going on. There are plenty of construction jobs. Cleaning, paining, moving stuff… Lots of work to be done.