The Real Iraq

Well, while you aren’t getting much credit amongst Iraqi’s for security gains, it seems as if negative responses have dropped considerably.

[i]Instead, poll respondents credited the Iraqi government, police and army.

In the poll, however, more than half the Iraqis, 53 percent, felt that the rapid buildup of U.S. troops in Anbar province and in Baghdad has made overall security worse, not better. Even those negative findings, however, were a sharp improvement since a similar poll last August. Then, 70 percent said the American buildup had made matters worse in the areas it had emphasized. Only 18 percent said it had improved their conditions then, compared with 36 percent now…

In line with that, the poll’s findings on “views of the U.S. presence” in Iraq were the highest since the invasion. Asked whether the “invasion was right,” 49 percent said it was. The previous high had been 48 percent in the first poll of the series, by ABC News in February 2004, a virtual tie with the current level due to the poll’s 2.5 percent error margin…

In August, 57 percent of Iraqis had replied that it was “acceptable” to attack U.S. forces. The poll released Monday found that number had dropped to 42 percent.

Likewise, 47 percent said last August that the foreign coalition’s forces should leave Iraq. In the new poll, that had dropped to 38 percent…[/i]
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080317/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq_poll

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Likewise, 47 percent said last August that the foreign coalition’s forces should leave Iraq. In the new poll, that had dropped to 38 percent… [/quote]

Should leave Iraq immediately is a keyword in that question. Put a in a few months in there and see the results surge to 90%.

[quote]lixy wrote:
lixy wrote:
Here we go again…

Monday, 17 March 2008

Bomb kills dozens in Iraqi city

A female suicide bomber has killed at least 32 people and injured 50 in the Iraqi city of Karbala […]

McCain and Cheney are over there, aren’t they?

Make that 36 dead.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gZRKZUdRoqGamSjoXpTVk-7lSoaQ [/quote]

42 by the latest count.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Likewise, 47 percent said last August that the foreign coalition’s forces should leave Iraq. In the new poll, that had dropped to 38 percent…

Should leave Iraq immediately is a keyword in that question. Put a in a few months in there and see the results surge to 90%.[/quote]

Perhaps. But polls have asked this from the start. And it’s been a hell of alot longer than 6-12 months since then. Therefore, one would expect 90% to say immediately, in this poll. Instead, I imagine this continues to get pushed foward with every poll (basically, “ok, maybe another 6-12 months, then they should leave!”) as Iraqis consider the security situation at the time of each poll.

In this poll 59% respond that forces should stay until some target is met. Anywhere from a stronger Iraq Government, completely independent Iraqi forces, or until security is restored, period.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Remember, though, you took the calm and order created by the United States for granted. You’re probably going to wind up with a world resembling Darfur. Enjoy!!!

They deserve it.[/quote]

You are just like soviets 20+ years ago.
Set the world free…yeah. Liberators.

No offensive :slight_smile:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Perhaps. But polls have asked this from the start. And it’s been a hell of alot longer than 6-12 months since then. Therefore, one would expect 90% to say immediately, in this poll. Instead, I imagine this continues to get pushed foward with every poll (basically, “ok, maybe another 6-12 months, then they should leave!”) as Iraqis consider the security situation at the time of each poll. [/quote]

True. But it’s a catch-22. The more American troops remain there, the more extremist groups flourish.

They’re not going anywhere though. Be it in 6 or 600 months.

[quote]lixy wrote:
42 by the latest count.

Top News, Latest headlines, Latest News, World News & U.S News - UPI.com [/quote]

Is there a point to this running total?

[quote]pookie wrote:
lixy wrote:
42 by the latest count.

Is there a point to this running total? [/quote]

A 25% increase of the first reported casualties seems worth noting to me.

[quote]lixy wrote:
A 25% increase of the first reported casualties seems worth noting to me.[/quote]

Why? You still have no point.

[quote]pookie wrote:
lixy wrote:
A 25% increase of the first reported casualties seems worth noting to me.

Why? You still have no point.
[/quote]

So you think a girl blowing herself up along with 42 others near a Shia holy site is not illustrative of “the real Iraq”?

And the point, genius, is that this wouldn’t be happening had the US not invaded Iraq.

[quote]lixy wrote:

And the point, genius, is that this wouldn’t be happening had the US not invaded Iraq.[/quote]

And that’s true. Saddam knew how to keep 'em in line.

Yeah, we shouldn’t kick out a repressive dictatorship. See what happens.

Now, what should we do about The Saudi’s again?

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Yeah, we shouldn’t kick out a repressive dictatorship. See what happens.

Now, what should we do about The Saudi’s again?[/quote]

Stop sending them money and guns, remove your military and make it clear you won’t stamp down a revolution against them. Do not invade the country.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, while you aren’t getting much credit amongst Iraqi’s for security gains, it seems as if negative responses have dropped considerably.

[i]Instead, poll respondents credited the Iraqi government, police and army.

In the poll, however, more than half the Iraqis, 53 percent, felt that the rapid buildup of U.S. troops in Anbar province and in Baghdad has made overall security worse, not better. Even those negative findings, however, were a sharp improvement since a similar poll last August. Then, 70 percent said the American buildup had made matters worse in the areas it had emphasized. Only 18 percent said it had improved their conditions then, compared with 36 percent now…

In line with that, the poll’s findings on “views of the U.S. presence” in Iraq were the highest since the invasion. Asked whether the “invasion was right,” 49 percent said it was. The previous high had been 48 percent in the first poll of the series, by ABC News in February 2004, a virtual tie with the current level due to the poll’s 2.5 percent error margin…

In August, 57 percent of Iraqis had replied that it was “acceptable” to attack U.S. forces. The poll released Monday found that number had dropped to 42 percent.

Likewise, 47 percent said last August that the foreign coalition’s forces should leave Iraq. In the new poll, that had dropped to 38 percent…[/i]
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080317/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq_poll[/quote]

I think this was the most interesting part:
“More than eight in 10 Sunni Arabs said the condition of the country was bad; just over half of the Kurds, most of whom are Sunni, also felt that the things were going badly. Of the Shiites, who are 60 percent of the population and control the government, fewer than four in 10 found things were going badly.”

[quote]will to power wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Yeah, we shouldn’t kick out a repressive dictatorship. See what happens.

Now, what should we do about The Saudi’s again?

Stop sending them money and guns, remove your military and make it clear you won’t stamp down a revolution against them. Do not invade the country. [/quote]

We all know that it has nothing to do with repression or dictatorships. What’s relevant here is the Al-Saud’s attitude vis-a-vis Washington. They invest plenty (yes, plenty!! of money in the US. They’re handing out contracts to foreign corporations at much less than what “the people” would. And let’s not forget their inflammatory Wahabi ideology…

[quote]will to power wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Yeah, we shouldn’t kick out a repressive dictatorship. See what happens.

Now, what should we do about The Saudi’s again?

Stop sending them money and guns, remove your military and make it clear you won’t stamp down a revolution against them. Do not invade the country. [/quote]

What if Al-Qaeda steps up attacks there like they did years ago? What if they made a move against the monarchy like Khomeni did against the Shah in Iran? Just let the nuts take over? Is that the solution?

[quote]lixy wrote:
We all know that it has nothing to do with repression or dictatorships. What’s relevant here is the Al-Saud’s attitude vis-a-vis Washington. They invest plenty (yes, plenty!! of money in the US. They’re handing out contracts to foreign corporations at much less than what “the people” would. And let’s not forget their inflammatory Wahabi ideology…[/quote]

So what you are saying is we should have left Saddam, who gassed Kurds, invaded Iran and Kuwait, and defied the UN, alone and focused on the Saudis?

If the Saudis were overthrown by Al-Qaeda looking to set up a Caliphate, then what?

You say this is impossible, that there are moderate forces who would step in during a powerstruggle. Where are these moderate forces in Iraq? In Pakistan? The majority killed by the radical forces. Look at Bhutto for instance.

So why would a regime change in Arabia be any different?

Or is an anti-Western militant Arabia what you really want?

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
will to power wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Yeah, we shouldn’t kick out a repressive dictatorship. See what happens.

Now, what should we do about The Saudi’s again?

Stop sending them money and guns, remove your military and make it clear you won’t stamp down a revolution against them. Do not invade the country.

What if Al-Qaeda steps up attacks there like they did years ago? What if they made a move against the monarchy like Khomeni did against the Shah in Iran? Just let the nuts take over? Is that the solution?[/quote]

It’s got nothing to do with Al-Qaeda. Saudi Arabia is Al-Qaeda to a certain extent. What the US (and Israel) doesn’t want in there, is a Chavez like figure ascending to power, nationalizing the resources and inspiring the neighbors to do the same.

Had Saddam been playing ball, you wouldn’t give two shits about his oppression nor dictatorship.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
will to power wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Yeah, we shouldn’t kick out a repressive dictatorship. See what happens.

Now, what should we do about The Saudi’s again?

Stop sending them money and guns, remove your military and make it clear you won’t stamp down a revolution against them. Do not invade the country.

What if Al-Qaeda steps up attacks there like they did years ago? What if they made a move against the monarchy like Khomeni did against the Shah in Iran? Just let the nuts take over? Is that the solution?[/quote]

Sure, if they can take over SA, let them.

He gassed the kurds with our weapons, and at the time he gassed them, Iran was occupying that region, so he was technically attacking enemy forces.