Is this true? I’m pretty sure it took a lot of slaves to build the great pyramids, etc. Slavery seems to me to be one of those evils that has been around on a massive scale from prehistory through to this very moment.
[quote]etaco wrote:
Slavery on a scale never seen in human history
[/quote]
But when did they stop having separate water fountains and integrating schools? When did “mixed couples” stop raising eyebrows?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
However slavery did end 140 years ago![/quote]
[quote]JJJJ wrote:
Like I’ve said . . . Mexican-Americans are dirt poor but their communities don’t have the same level civil violence. Jews have been historically repressed but they have almost no record of civil violence.
[/quote]
I almost can’t read your bigoted posts anymore but to allow them to go unanswered would be giving in to your disturbing ideas on racial behaviors.
You think blacks are so violent, huh? Well I’ve got another hypothesis for your small-minded brain to chew on. I don’t really believe this but I’m just using your own flawed logic against you. And in the process I’ll come up with more statistics than you’ve offered thus far for your weak hypothesis.
[u]Whites have been historically more violent towards mexicans, jews, and blacks all put together[/u]
What do you think of that one my white supremacist friend?
Let’s just look at the last century…
20th century - America. First refer to the graph above. Approximate lynching numbers based on a count kept by Tuskeegee Institute, and published annually in old editions of The World Almanac. As you can see, there have been a disproportionate number of black lynchings vs white lynchings. I guess whites are much more violent, huh?
20th century - Racial violence and the abuse of police power was a fact of everyday life in the South. Over 1,100 lynchings of African Americans occured between the beginning of the 20th century and the outbreak of World War I. The vast majority of those lynchings occured in the South.
Late 19th century/early 20th century - During the 30 year period from 1889 to 1918, lynching mobs murdered 3,224 persons in the US, of whom 2,522 were Negroes, and 702 whites. Again, major discrepancy showing white people much more prone to violence.
1904 - Springfield, Ohio riot ravaged an african american community.
1904 - Southern “white-induced” riots against blacks occured in Statesboro, Georgia.
1906 - Atlanta. A white mob killed four African Americans and destroyed black homes and property.
1906 - Another Springfield, Ohio riot against the african american community perpetrated by “whites”.
1908 - Brownville, Texas was home to more “white-induced” riots against blacks.
1908 - Springfield, Illinois also “white-induced” against an African American community.
1919 - Numerous Northern riots occured during the summer of 1919 with the most serious outbreak in Chicago.
1919 - 84 people were lynched of whom 78 were Negroes and 10 of those served in the world war. In 34 of these 78 cases, the victims of the mobs were taken from officers and jails, in some cases without resistance on the part of the officers, and in some cases by connivance between officers and the mob.
1933-1945 - Germany; Holocaust. Have you heard of it? Germans (whites) wiping out 6 million jews.
1943 - California. “Whites” instigating the zoot suit riots against mexican-americans.
1967 - Detroit riots of 1967. This time blacks were the rioters. But why? What was the cause behind these riots? The origins of urban unrest in Detroit were rooted in a multitude of political, economic, and social factors including “white” police abuse, lack of affordable housing, urban renewal projects, economic inequality, black militancy (a trend in response to years of inequality), and rapid demographic change.
http://www.67riots.rutgers.edu/d_index.htm
So your simplistic view of color = more prone to violence doesn’t hold water. Actually, it just further proves your bigoted view on the world.
[quote]John K wrote:
But when did they stop having separate water fountains and integrating schools? When did “mixed couples” stop raising eyebrows?
ZEB wrote:
However slavery did end 140 years ago!
[/quote]
They’ve stopped?
Ok Randman…then explain to me this:
Where does people like Fifty Cent and other rappers fit into this equation?
50 cent is idolized for living the gangster lifestyle, who has been shot and raps about shooting people and getting money and being rich? He is treated as a hero to many in this nation no matter what the color.
Where does the whole “bling-bling”, lots of diamonds, jewelery, big rims on the car and this obsession with possessions fit in this?
Where does the Cristal, people like Paris Hilton who are famous for simply being rich fit into all this?
Stereotypes suck. But, unfortunately, they are part of reality. Black people aren’t evil or violent people. BUT…the majority of YOUNG AMERICAN blacks have been sucked into this shitty violent culture you are witnessing because of TV, society, etc…
Entertainment creates these stereotypes…they make them cool and hip…If you want to be a part of that life…it’s cool to be a gangsta, it’s cool to shoot people, and to fit in you need this type of sneaker and rim for your car, and you should be fucking hoes and treating women with disrespect.
The same is true for any race in this nation. Look at how gays are portrayed on TV…they are always funny little morons who dress well. People sadly buy into this shit and get locked in almost as an excuse…“well, this is how I’m supposed to act.”
This country is fucked. And what is going on right now in New Orleans is just an extension of where America is.
America is a great country. But with greatness comes great responsibility and temptation.
We have fallen down. Instead of looking closely and why these people are looting and rioting, we point the fingers at race because that’s the easy answer. It’s not race. It’s the pockets of culture that America has created and people follow.
[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
ProffX:
Nope sorry , the africans just sold slaves from other caputured peoples to the europeans. I know that you dont like admitting that black people enslaved and sold other black people but its a fact. Accept and get over it. [/quote]
Hate to dawg out my own people but he’s right!
On what Oogie wrote:
In the midst of bashing an entire genre of music, did you excuse the near satanic screams from some metal music today? You sound like the parents of the 1950’s in absolute fear due to the undulating hips of Elvis and the images of sex this placed in young girls’ heads. The horror of Beach Blanket Bingo, Gidget inspired sex orgies, and the devilment of 1960’s drug experimentation were all going to destroy the world.
One thing is clear, there is a bias. 50 cent isn’t a “gangsta”, though he may play one on tv.
You have me interested…exactly why would rap music get the blame for society’s ills? I listen to those same songs and did all of the way through school. Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg’s Chronic album is a classic and no one’s hatred of that genre can take that away.
To blame that genre for crimes would mean you believe the same for movies…like Natural Born Killers…or maybe even Fight Club made it cool to pick fights in public. Where were the black rappers in those movies? Perhaps they were in the background? GI Joe should be blamed as well because they made carrying guns cool for kids who just getting ready for school in the morning.
People who think like you confuse me. You ignore all of the images in our society until it fits your agenda. Don’t pretend you don’t because it is very evident here by the simple fact that you felt the need to even bring “rap music” (as if it is all the same) to the forefront of your rant. I wasn’t aware that Kanye West was “gangsta rap”. Thanks for letting me know.
On what Oogie wrote:
What’s even worse is that alot of black people (not all blacks) have also embraced this type of lifestyle. My mother and I have been made fun of all our lives by other blacks because we aren’t sterotypical (speak proper english, read, hold education and content of character over material possesions etc. etc).
I just can’t believe that white people are starting to get into it.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
On what Oogie wrote:
In the midst of bashing an entire genre of music, did you excuse the near satanic screams from some metal music today? You sound like the parents of the 1950’s in absolute fear due to the undulating hips of Elvis and the images of sex this placed in young girls’ heads. The horror of Beach Blanket Bingo, Gidget inspired sex orgies, and the devilment of 1960’s drug experimentation were all going to destroy the world.
One thing is clear, there is a bias. 50 cent isn’t a “gangsta”, though he may play one on tv.
You have me interested…exactly why would rap music get the blame for society’s ills? I listen to those same songs and did all of the way through school. Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg’s Chronic album is a classic and no one’s hatred of that genre can take that away.
To blame that genre for crimes would mean you believe the same for movies…like Natural Born Killers…or maybe even Fight Club made it cool to pick fights in public. Where were the black rappers in those movies? Perhaps they were in the background? GI Joe should be blamed as well because they made carrying guns cool for kids who just getting ready for school in the morning.
People who think like you confuse me. You ignore all of the images in our society until it fits your agenda. Don’t pretend you don’t because it is very evident here by the simple fact that you felt the need to even bring “rap music” (as if it is all the same) to the forefront of your rant. I wasn’t aware that Kanye West was “gangsta rap”. Thanks for letting me know.[/quote]
Personaly I think today’s music and TV is just pumping out too many bad influnces in general.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
One thing is clear, there is a bias. 50 cent isn’t a “gangsta”, though he may play one on tv. [/quote]
Either way he is celebrated for the “lifestyle” of one.
There’s a difference from listening to a song and living and breathing the words and lifestyles that a music genre upholds. I listened to those songs too and I don’t have an urge to put 21 inch rims on my cars and drink gin and juice with braids in my hair saying foshizzle my nizzle.
[quote]
To blame that genre for crimes would mean you believe the same for movies…like Natural Born Killers…or maybe even Fight Club made it cool to pick fights in public.[/quote]
Those are single movies. There aren’t music groups who sing about fight clubs, and beat each other up on stage. There isn’t real people walking around glamourizing the idea of beating the piss out of someone in a basement. They are however, movies, songs, tv shows, clothing, etc… that all plays a part in a rap culture.
[quote]
GI Joe should be blamed as well because they made carrying guns cool for kids who just getting ready for school in the morning. [/quote]
No one died in a GI Joe cartoon and they actually had good lessons at the end.
No agenda my friend. Kayne represents what’s wrong with the whole rap scene and for him to get on and blast others doesn’t make sense to me.
He’s not a gangsta rapper because people would laugh at him. So, he plays the other game…the possessions, the Polo clothes, the metrosexual bs…He does that because he didn’t live that lifesyle growing up…he was a middle class kid.
I picked on rap because Kayne is a rapper and right now rap is the choice du jour to pick your poison.
[quote]jawara wrote:
On what Oogie wrote:
What’s even worse is that alot of black people (not all blacks) have also embraced this type of lifestyle. My mother and I have been made fun of all our lives by other blacks because we aren’t sterotypical (speak proper english, read, hold education and content of character over material possesions etc. etc).
I just can’t believe that white people are starting to get into it. [/quote]
You are very lucky to have such wonderful parents. I hope you pass those lessons on to your kids someday.
American white people have always been into greed…it’s finally started to catch up to us…
regular or unleaded?
[quote]
Personaly I think today’s music and TV is just pumping out too many bad influnces in general.[/quote]
Agreed. I touched upon rap as one component because my post would have gone too long.
Rap is really just one piece of the decline of American culture.
[quote]jawara wrote:
On what Oogie wrote:
What’s even worse is that alot of black people (not all blacks) have also embraced this type of lifestyle. My mother and I have been made fun of all our lives by other blacks because we aren’t sterotypical (speak proper english, read, hold education and content of character over material possesions etc. etc).
I just can’t believe that white people are starting to get into it. [/quote]
Maybe some of that had nothing to do with the way you spoke. I know, it’s easier to believe you were doing everything right and people just didn’t like you because they were all stupid.
My mom is a teacher and has been all of my life. I could read before I started school and the mere utterance of “flo’” instead of floor would unleash an entire speech on grammar and sentence structure. Very rarely would anyone say a thing to me for speaking proper English.
But then, considering the financial state of many I went school with then, I wasn’t the victim…and I understood that from the beginning.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
jawara wrote:
On what Oogie wrote:
My mom is a teacher and has been all of my life. I could read before I started school and the mere utterance of “flo’” instead of floor would unleash an entire speech on grammar and sentence structure. Very rarely would anyone say a thing to me for speaking proper English.
[/quote]
Maybe because it’s considered “cool” to talk “gangsta” and even “ebonics” has reared it’s head.
There isn’t much glory in speaking like a hillbilly from the south.
[quote]Oogie wrote:
There’s a difference from listening to a song and living and breathing the words and lifestyles that a music genre upholds. I listened to those songs too and I don’t have an urge to put 21 inch rims on my cars and drink gin and juice with braids in my hair saying foshizzle my nizzle.
[/quote]
What? Does it really need to be spelled out to you the difference in culture? Braids are a hair style. Just like that matted conglomeration of split ends on your head in that avatar, it is no more a statement of music. Afros were not in style because of the Jackson 5. The Jackson 5 just made it a part of their image.
Those same 21" rims can take the place a nice sweater that you might wear wrapped and tied around your waist whenever visiting the Country Club. You weren’t raised in that culture, but feel the need to criticize it.
[quote]
Those are single movies. There aren’t music groups who sing about fight clubs, and beat each other up on stage. There isn’t real people walking around glamourizing the idea of beating the piss out of someone in a basement. They are however, movies, songs, tv shows, clothing, etc… that all plays a part in a rap culture. [/quote]
Oh, cool, in what songs did all of this go down? I mean, this does describe all rap music, right? The main reason that Kanye West is even making news is because of the direction he took the music. On top of that, he made the cover of Time magazine and is selling records to the tune of “platinum”. All of that means you are stretching to associate rap with “teaching kids to carry guns”. I assume that is your position?
[quote]
No one died in a GI Joe cartoon and they actually had good lessons at the end.[/quote]
The dude with the blond hair got shot in the GI Joe movie Kobra-La or some shit like that. There was blood. I remember it well because before then, all they did was shoot and miss.
[quote]
No agenda my friend. Kayne represents what’s wrong with the whole rap scene and for him to get on and blast others doesn’t make sense to me.
…
I picked on rap because Kayne is a rapper and right now rap is the choice du jour to pick your poison.[/quote]
What is wrong with the whole rap scene and how does he represent it? I thought this was about “gangster rappers”? Even you admit that Kanye isn’t yet he is still to blame for what is wrong with rap music? Could you go into more detail?
[quote]randman wrote:
You think blacks are so violent, huh? Well I’ve got another hypothesis for your small-minded brain to chew on. I’ll come up with more statistics than you’ve offered thus far for your weak hypothesis.
What do you think of that one my white supremacist friend?
So your simplistic view of color = more prone to violence doesn’t hold water. Actually, it just further proves your bigoted view on the world. [/quote]
RANDMAN . . . what are you, a Freshman taking Sociology 101? Are you incapable of debate without insult? I should ignore your post since your patter is getting old, but you’ve obviously been busy and you’ve constructed one of the few counter-arguments that actually has some thought in it. I think I owe you the respect of an answer.
First off, I’m tyrying hard to ignore “cause.” I don’t know why black communities are more violent. I know black people, as individuals, aren’t any more violent than whites. I think it probably has something to do with culture . . . but that’s another thread.
Second, a list of white atrocities proves nothing. In fact, the real white racists and supremacists out there, actually use the statistics you cited to prove how bad things are today. Their argument is that those things you mention (while bad) don?t compare to what blacks regularly do to whites. (I’ll get to that, shortly.)
The problem with your list (as an example) is that you have to compare the lynchings in 1903 with the black on white crime in 1903.
Afterall, that is what we’re talking about . . . are black communities more violent than white communities?
So, let’s compare BLACK-ON-WHITE crime with WHITE-ON-BLACK crime. I’ll use FBI statistics for 2003. (I don’t have 2004; they’re not complete yet.)
Let’s start with the fact that blacks make up only 13% of the population (38 million).
MURDERS: Of 7024 murders in 2003, blacks committed 3412 of them . . . 49%
Let me repeat: 13% of the population did 49% of the murders.
3147 blacks were murdered . . . 226 by whites . . . 7%
3600 whites were murdered . . . 501 by blacks . . . 14%
Not only do blacks kill whites at twice the rate white kill blacks . . . but blacks die violent deaths in unbelievable rates. A population that makes up 13% commits 49% of the murders and suffers 45% of the deaths!
Now lets compare urban areas. I first selected nine urban areas that I think are predominantly white. I may be wrong on some Here are their population and the number of murders in 2003. Remember the New Orleans population is 1,500,000.
MINNEAPOLIS - ST PAUL pop 3,000,000 88 murders (twice the size of NO)
MILWAUKEE pop 1,500,000 119 murders
MADISON, WI pop 522,000 16 murders (1/3 size of NO so adjusted murders = 48)
FT LAUDERDALE pop 1,740,000 67 murders
SANTA ANNA-ANAHEIM-IRVINE pop 2,900,000 (twice the size of NO) 64 murders
LAS VEGAS (sin city) 1,500,000 172 murders
LANCASTER, PA pop 500,000 10 murders (adjusted for pop would be 30 murders)
HONOLULU pop 900,000 15 murders (adjusted for pop would be 22 murders)
HARRISBURG, PA pop 515,000 14 murders (adjusted 52)
Now . . . New Orleans . . . predominantly black while all the above were predominantly white . . . 1,300,000 pop
334 murders
If you think NO is unique . . . go to 2003 FBI crime stats at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
Make a list of cities with large black populations and look up their murder rates. See if you spot a trend.
Finally . . . the Hispanic population in the US is around the same as the black population. See any riots in San Antonio or Houston lately?
My point . . . once again . . . what we’re seeing in NO can be explained by the fact that black communities are much more violent than white communities.
I don’t claim to know the cause . . . and I don’t claim that blacks as individuals are any more violent . . . but my conclusion is irrefutable.
As a poli sci student, whenever discussion of politics in America is aroused, the racial divide never fails to rear its ugly head. Obviously a lot of passion and emotion resides behind the positions and theories individuals espouse concerning this subject.
For myself, I believe it’s not the negative media images being portrayed on MTV, through music, or in movies and magazines. That’s not the issue. You can find negative behavorial activites glorified in all forms, with ethnicity rarely playing a devisive role.
What I do find to be a serious problem in the African-American community, and many of my “black” (I hate even using these terms) colleagues, is a lack of positive role models coupled with positive activities. There seems to be no corollary to the pleathora of negative behaviors which are glorified.
I do think this is slowly changing, but I think lest we as a culture remove the “America = White” we’ll forever be stuck in this conundrum.
[quote]Oogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jawara wrote:
On what Oogie wrote:
My mom is a teacher and has been all of my life. I could read before I started school and the mere utterance of “flo’” instead of floor would unleash an entire speech on grammar and sentence structure. Very rarely would anyone say a thing to me for speaking proper English.
Maybe because it’s considered “cool” to talk “gangsta” and even “ebonics” has reared it’s head.
There isn’t much glory in speaking like a hillbilly from the south.
[/quote]
What does your post have to do with mine? Talk “gangsta”?
They are a hairstyle and they are a statement. You need to get out more in that wheelchair X…
[quote]
Those same 21" rims can take the place a nice sweater that you might wear wrapped and tied around your waist whenever visiting the Country Club. You weren’t raised in that culture, but feel the need to criticize it.[/quote]
YOU ARE COMPARING a $80 sweater to hub caps that cost up to $20k each…X come on man…that culturally fucked up to be paying 80k for hub caps when you can’t even put food on the table.
Wow. Producers would be kissing you right now…Kayne is on Time and he has platinum albums so that means he’s good. No… it means he is approved by fucked up culture.
NOT ALL RAP IS BAD…I’m not going to go through each song, genre, etc… I listen to rap and listen to Kayne and others…but I don’t live by their words or dress and emulate these people.
If you can’t see what’s wrong with what rap has turned into…well, we are wasting our breath. Gangsta rap is a component of the big picture. You are nitpicking bullshit…come on!
Professor x have you ever listened to 2pac, Notorious BIG and NWA. They made rap big and sold milions of records. Their lyrics are so harshly violent. Murders, drug deals and rapes are all lyricized in these songs for teens to buy. (c)rap music is a fucking discrace to us as a species. You compare rap to elvis. You sir are an idiot.