Yep.
Being portrayed as Dope Smoking Baby Killers is not exactly the best way for one to gain votes.
I would say legal pot is a carrot on the DEM side, and being against abortion is a carrot on the GOP side. I think the GOP would be beyond foolish to ever do anything to actually overturn Roe. I wonder if the same is true on legal pot. DEMs have used it as ballot measures to increase turnout numerous times.
Bernie is most likely an atheist (or at least I have heard that speculated several times). He needs a supply of babies to keep him satiated. Seems like a waste to just discard them after the procedure if a tasty meal could be had.
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It wouldn’t be so bad if that was all they were, but some of them are also after our guns!
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From what I recall Bernie is the one democratic candidate not proposing drastic measures in relation to gun control
The ones that are don’t want to “take away” guns per se… that’d be retarded, I see no problem with a law abaiding citizen owning guns (within reason… I see no need for one to own say… an RPG/automatic assault rifle and whatnot). Assault weapons in America are banned for civilian ownership if I recall correctly… but come on, I knew a couple guys that still managed to own them… guns, licit or illicit are very easy to acquire within most American states
It’s a proposal for background checks, license requirements, what’s the issue with this? It takes guns out from the hands of those previously convicted of violent crimes (or attempts to do so). What’s the problem with that
Joe who grew up in Alabama, has an extensive criminal record, having stabbed six people etc… he probably shouldn’t be able to acquire a firearm…
Pete on the other hand who hasn’t been convicted of anything besides jaywalking a few times should be able to get a gun. Though given the facet of undiagnosed mental instability perhaps being present it makes sense to better regulate the purchase of guns so one can deter violent attacks via red flag detection.
After adjusting for populace, America still has about 20x the amount of gun related deaths (after taking out suicides) compared to Australia (ill post the stats later)… something’s wrong…
Canada has a similar high rate of gun ownership but a far lower gun homicide rate, I attribute this to regulatory practice
This is already a law. Felons cannot legally own firearms.
I know a lot of gun owners and none of them have a problem with this current law. Adding to the background check process only hampers law abiding citizens as those who are already criminals must obtain firearms by illicit means only.
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I understand you’re qualms here, however I don’t think it’d be this extensive… the public backlash would be too massive.
And by “criminal” what are we referring to. The prospect of a “violent misdemeanour” exists, simple affray, in NC a class A1 demeanour is considered “assault with a deadly weapon”, as is the notion of simple assault.
One with a history of violence shouldn’t be acquiring firearms, I don’t think the system will be as black and white as many believe, I believe cases will be looked at individualistically… one with manic depression/significant psychiatric ailment shouldn’t be able to purchase a firearm… With the democrats the prospect of say barring one from purchasing a gun due to a prior conviction for minor drug possession won’t be an issue (many criminal records consist of this)
There’s a difference between many countries and that of America (don’t take this with offence, I’m merely asking why)… In America owning a gun is seen as a RIGHT, elsewhere it’s seen as a privilege, why is this? When the founding fathers drafted the constitution the notion of “the right to bear arms” dictated citizens could bear whatever firearms they had present back then in order to protect themselves for the case of government overthrow. However this has now led to “I need to carry my guns in public… all the time… I need dozens of guns (for collection of antique and/or rare weaponry I understand)… my child needs to sleep with a gun under his pillow” etc (yes, I knew a parent that gave his 13y/o kid a .45 magnum to sleep with under his pillow at night).
When this constitution was drafted, society as we know it was in it’s infancy, the prospect of a corrupt government (I’d argue America’s sense of “democracy” is currently very corrupt, but this is besides the point)… Government overthrow was a legitimate possibility. Furthermore, this bill was drafted in the era of single shot muskets, flintlock pistols. I highly doubt our founding forefathers meant “stock up on guns that can mow down a movie theatres worth of people within a few minutes”.
No one is going to take away your guns… however perhaps stricter regulation would be beneficial in my opinion. It doesn’t answer my question “why is the gun homicide rate in America so disproportionately high when compared to other countries with stricter regulations regardless of the amount of guns own per 100 households.”
I’m not typically for the policing of citizens, however guns I consider to be rather dangerous, it’s not like a knife wherein you’ll stab one person, someone will tackle you… here the person being shot at is defenceless… the argument isn’t for everyone to be armed in my opinion, this just leads to everyone shooting at everyone.
There were 435 mass shootings in America alone within 2019, in Australia there was ONE… adjust that for population variance, you’ve still got a problem. Even in states wherein it’s relatively easy to get a gun, but stricter regulations are apparent (Canada, New Zeland) the rates of gun violence (homicides, not suicides) are far, far, FAAAAR lower than that of the USA.
Finally I must ask, why is it so important that we have easy access to firearms? Yes, they’re fun to shoot… but why do we need easy access to high powered firearms/assault rifles. For those who say guns weren’t designed with the intent to harm another human being… the designated purpose for an assault rifle is “laying down a high volume of fire over a wide killing zone”
I’m not attacking you’re ideology, but I’d just like to know what you think of my points made here
To me, this is anyone with a felony conviction (I hadn’t heard of the assault being considered a misdeamor - that is an interesting side point).
I agree that the founding fathers likely could not imaging the kind of firearms available on the market today (nevermind the technology owned by militaries around the world). However, I believe the intention of the amendment was to keep the people in control of the republic (something I don’t necessarily think is the case anymore). That intention should still be met - if that includes a rewrite of some of the amendments currently in the constitution I am okay with that.
I also agree with you that carrying a gun in public (especially open carry) is completely useless without constant training on how to use that firearm effectively in a situation. Many people who own firearms are not afraid enough of the business end of the weapon. Personally, I have been shooting/hunting since I was twelve and am very fearful of the muzzle. Anyone who owns/uses a weapon should have this same level of fear.
This is just ridiculous and extremely poor parenting.
I believe this is a cultural problem, not necessarily a regulation one. In my opinion respect for others is instilled more in other countries. This goes a long way to preventing issues from escalating. Also, the US does a poor job of recognizing and treating mental health issues. Almost all of these mass shooters have some sort of mental health disorder (again, I dont’ think outlawing them from getting firearms would necessarily prevent them from acquiring weapons. It worked so well of drugs…)
I am for training courses before owning a firearm. I have been to many gun ranges where it was clear some of the people there had no instructions/training on how to properly use and be safe with their weapons. It scares that crap out of me when I see that.
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100%, I’m all for subsidized/free healthcare, but said healthcare needs to be adequate rather than a thin budget spread over many issues, leading many demographics such as the mentally ill to be under represented. I can’t help but feel however that the extreme ease of access to firearms (including unregistered, illicit firearms) contributes to gun violence.
It worked in Australia… sort of… well… there’s a pretty high rate of gun ownership here… (about 1/4th that of the US)
When I was twelve I went to a shooting range for the first time with my father (he was in the military as a teenager and for whatever reason thought it would be a good idea if I knew how to handle a gun)
The guy says “have you ever shot before?” I say “No”… he hands me a .357 revolver (6 shot) as per my request… I love revolvers… not sure why. He lets me into the shooting room with my father, closes the door… no windows, no supervision, no nothing
Super fun day though. I’m looking at getting into skeet shooting, I also may need to legitimately acquire a firearm, on our farm foxes tend to eat sheep (happened to our neighbours, it was grizzly, all livestock dead practically overnight)… however here with firearms police are entitled to randomly enter you’re house, look for you’re gun safe etc… I’m not sure whether they’ll abuse their power, search through all my shit too… I wouldn’t be comfortable with that.
It seems like he assumed your father knew what he was doing. The first time I went to a range I had to show my hunter’s safety card (training course you have to take before getting a hunting license - they teach you the four major rules of firearm safety and how to safely operate/shoot a variety of firearms). However, this was when I was a teenager. There are no stipulations to show training at most ranges for adults.
Also - I love revolvers too. The design, simple mechanics, and beautiful machining are what draw me to them.
Skeet shooting is a blast. It’s highly challenging and a great way to make friends. There are usually team competitions/leagues you can join.
This is thankfully still against the law in the US. I do believe though that every firearm owner should own a gun safe.
Agreed, and perhaps keep ammo/firearms separately thus if the safe is broken into/stolen, you’ve got a gun without any ammo.
In the states of Victoria/QLD one can own a cap/ball revolver manufactured prior to 1901 absent of having a license. It’s a rather flawed loophole… not as if it’s particularly less dangerous than a .22 rifle/pistol
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To be clear, I was goofing off and being a bit satyrical about how each “side” sees the other on different issues and hypocracy reigns supreme over both.
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Wonder if anyone can answer this for me… What is the opinion harboured from centralist democrats regarding Bernie Sanders securing position as the Democratic Nominee… I initially thought he was slightly too radical, but people seem to like him
I have a few problems with his presidential planning…
- The costs regarding his proposed economic overhaul (free healthcare, college etc) have been estimated to surpass 60 trillion dollars… America doesn’t have the funds for this… economical crash would be a serious risk factor in my opinion
- Removing all troops from the Middle East… I cannot think of a better way to give the Middle East back to ISIS
- His Isreal policy… many on the far left appear to be staunchly anti Israel, perhaps even anti semitic (topic for another thread… I’m for a two state solution, I disliked some aspects of Trumps peace plan… this is coming from a Jewish individual who is decidedly pro Israel)
- States he wishes to prosecute those high up within oil distribution, fracking etc… it’s not illegal… good luck with that… He also wishes to entirely remove the most commonly used sources of fuel, we need a washout period for this to occur effectively if it occurs at all.
Crazier things have happened, Donald Trump won the 2016 election despite abysmal polling, as did Scott Morrison regarding our most recent election.
My question is… would a centralist democrat be more likely to
- vote for Trump
- abstain entirely
- vote for Bernie
The gun thing is interesting and I’ll give my 2 cents, but let’s keep this thread to the election yeah??
It depends. Why do we need new regulations when the ones we have aren’t being executed properly? Many, I won’t speak for all, are opposed to this motion, as am I. No you don’t need a shiny new law, you need to make the laws you already have enforced effectively. THEN let’s talk about new legislation.
Besides which, as you noted we view gun ownership as a fundamental right, not a privilege, so there is a completely different perspective which you need to take into account. And a completely different cultural outlook (for good or ill). No offense, but if you’re going to say “I’m not typically for the policing of citizens BUT…” then you’re not really against it either. Didn’t you start the war on drugs thread? You listed some legitimate human rights/legal violations by law officers there, which I agree with, for essentially what amounts to a self-destructive habit or privilege. Not a fundamental RIGHT encoded in our founding documents. If you’re going to approach the topic, do so from our native perspective rather than someone else’s.
The gun conversation can be interesting but I’ve had my fill over the years.
As for stats, they’re funny things. I don’t feel like getting into it, but you can’t just control for #of household owning guns. There are numerous other factors to account for, not the least of which are the ways other countries tabulate their gun statistics. This is not consistent from country to country and in many cases excuse the numbers. In addition, You need to look at the distribution of gun crimes geographically down to a district level.
Finally the definition of “mass shooting” differs suspense substantially depending on who you were reading and what they are using. For instance, the statistic that you cite includes a large amount of gang on gang crime. I’d say that’s a tragedy, but that’s not affecting most of the population–it is rather self contained to very small pockets of certain areas. When people think about mass shootings they typically think about some tragedy like Sandy Hook, but that is not the definition used in most literature.
I’ll reply in my war on drugs thread
The amount of gun homicides in general within Australia (I have data to back this) vs America when adjusted for population is about 20x lower than that of America
Someone earlier mentioned mental health being an issue. I believe it somewhat factors in… rates of lifetime mental illness are considerably higher in the US vs AUS (more than double, statistically almost triple)
Rest of the reply will be within my war on drugs thread
As I’m guessing you know already, there is a difference between what the majority of gun owners want, and what the NRA lobbies for (usually successfully).
Yeah, I ended my membership with the NRA awhile back for that very reason.
I am a much bigger fan of the Nation Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF). They have ideals that align much more with my opinions and are more for promoting sport and conservation than just allowing ownerhsip of all weapons.
I’m politically unaffiliated, but lean left. My natural inclination is towards someone like Pete, but here we are.
First, Trump is undermining our democratic institutions. Shoring up these institutions and restoring Presidential norms matters far more to me than making sure the social safety net is dialed in 100% to my liking. It’s tough taking a benefit away from folks after they’ve acclimated to it, but it may be even harder to undo the damage Trump does to our institutions if he’s re-elected for a second term.
I see Bernie’s policy positions as starting points. There are going to have to be major compromises to get anything passed through Congress, so I’m not worried about how extreme Bernie seems on health care and higher education for example.
Honestly, I think comparing specific policy positions is a waste of time. Do you think die hard Trump supporters who show up to the rallies are there because of Trump’s Middle East policy? They’re there because there’s something about Trump’s character that they like. The voters in the middle who will decide this election are going to vote for who they like. What Trump and Bernie have in common Is that they are their authentic selves on stage and in front of people. Hillary struggled with likability because she wasn’t her genuine self onstage and that came through. I think the reason why Trump’s base gives him a pass on all the lying is because lying is part of his genuine nature. He’s lying, but he’s being true to himself.
They like narcissistic, corrupt pathological lairs (jokes aside)… they like him because he represents an “alpha” male of sorts. Yet the differentiation between showcasing confidence and being an arrogant, egotistical megalomaniac for whatever reason cannot be deciphered…
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If an old overweight dude who wears more makeup than most girls I know represents an alpha male then I hope no one ever describes me as an alpha!
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It’s his douchebaggy demeanor, the way he mocks his opponents into submission, his posture etc… To me it just showcases “the bully tends to win in real life”… He was inaugurated on my birthday, that was my least favourite birthday.
Many unfortunately appear unable to differentiate between “confident” and “asshole”