Proudboyz vs Antifa has a long history of street violence in PDX. It would be easy for proudboz to throw on some camo (which all the tacticool bros already own), rent the exact same van from the exact same enterprise rent-a-car and go pickup antifa in the same manner. That is another big fear.
I actually LOLed at that one.
Yeah, that crossed my mind too. IMO, if police want to do their work without identifying themselves (and do stuff like haul people off in vans), then they are risking justifiable violence against themselves.
Maybe I am wrong about how easy it is to identify them as official police or feds? Camo is easy to obtain. People have dressed as cops to commit crimes in the past.
So persuasive that not one, but two, IGs are now investigating.
But conservatism’s turn to now take a government bureaucrat’s after-the-fact explanation for use of force, etc. against private citizens not only at face value but blind adherence that can’t tolerate even the slightest bit of skepticism is nothing short of depressing.
I keep hitting this theme, but the one thing Trumpism has laid bare is that movement conservatism’s belief in liberty, principles, and rule of law was always a fib - what most conservatives want is authority.
I think we have vastly different ideas about what’s happening in Portland. Further, my flavor of conservative has never been one that sits paralyzed as brave men did their best to protect this nation’s courthouses, and themselves, from attack by Marxist loons hell bent on pulling our culture, history, and institutions down into smoldering ruins. That has never been my flavor at all. It certainly wouldn’t call them goons just because I wasn’t fond of the President. I’m not.
I’ve never been the Randy Weaver/Mcveigh anti-government flavor. Which is more like some kind of libertarian in my estimation.
Not surprised about the investigations with how politicized things are. Doesn’t mean things won’t come out in favor of DHS.
What is troubling here, is how misguided skepticism (conspiracy theories) is abundant in the right wing (not all right wingers, but statistically it is higher than on the left), then when something comes up that they should be skeptical about, it is just ignored or not even noticed it seems.
Perhaps it’s all the video of rioters with shields, cudgels, lighting fires to a courthouse. Sounds more conspiratorial to believe unmarked agents are randomly snatching hapless citizens off the street for nefarious Trump hatched purposes. What with DHS pointing out that their men wear insignias and identifying numbers and do announce.
Oh, I can be skeptical alright. Which is why I didn’t buy the Antifa propaganda.
It doesn’t even make sense. Why would they not wear insignia, but wear the camo and tactical gear…They think nobody would suspect they’re feds? Huh? While wearing tactical equipment trying too chases skinny white kids in black around? DHS isn’t/ hasn’t tried to hide the fact they’re there. That makes no sense. Everyone knew it. Why wouldn’t they wear the orange nsignia? It sounds like an after the fact poor thought out accusation of some would be revolutionaries.
The problem is you have positioned this as either/or, but someone can be against destruction of federal property AND against abuse of authority by government against private citizens.
And you’re refusing to acknowledge the justified skepticism of the actions, even if you otherwise think they check out. You don’t have to be anti-government on the Right to recognize there are legit problems with how this is being handled, made worse by the fact that the President has now promised to do the same things in other cities against local authorities’ wishes.
I wholeheartedly support how this is being handled. Actually, at this point, I would approve for more agents to come help those brave men.
Bravo to our law enforcement. To do this for us night after night.
Well, I guess the federal judiciary must be part of conspiracy. Deep State, maybe?
Careful about journalists. Carry on. That is all there is to it. Had already read it.
It helps to read the article (read the whole TRO, if you’re so inclined):
A federal judge specifically blocked U.S. agents from arresting or using physical force against journalists and legal observers at the ongoing Portland
Now show me how that keeps them from continuing detaining the folks we’re talking about?
That pertains only to journalists. They are completely free to carry on otherwise with arrests, investigation, and detainment. Be careful with journalists. Otherwise, carry on. /shrug?
And legal observers.
Otherwise, no change. Am I not correct?
They can continue to track and make arrests off property. Nothing about their attire, insignias, or vehicles.
The TRO is to enforce a lawsuit filed by the ACLU to protect journalists and legal observers. That’s all it pertains to.
The point is, a federal court had to order the feds to knock it off pending the claim - which is evidence that there are issues with how this is being handled.
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Id bet my life savings that there were more than a few DHS agents that had no clue what a “legal observer” was for the first week or so they were in PDX, and didnt know they were protected like journalists.
The only thing I concluded was that unmarked agents were capturing people in unmarked vans. The last part is not supported by evidence from what I understand (I admittedly haven’t followed this all that close).
The DHS defense video however is all assertions and no evidence as these CYA events almost always are. Because of all of times that these type of things have been shown to not reflect actual facts, I think it is reasonable to be skeptical of what is being told to you and look at the actual events instead.
A narrow reminder to be careful to not disperse journalists in the middle of a riot hardly proves the goon charge. And does jack at all to provide evidence of secret feds in black helicopters ( or vans) snatching people Willy-nilly off the streets without so much as a sticker supporting the local sheriff as evidence of their involvement with law enforcement. Nor, does It do anything to restrict the Feds to borders of the courthouse. At all.
Can anyone show me a still from video showing these did not wear their departments insignia? They flat out have gone on record that their uniforms have the insignia